Heavyweight Boxing

yourdeadwright

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I gotta say Ortiz is a fantastic boxer its just such a shame he isn't 10 years younger
I found it funny I was watching the build up and a lot of Sky's experts had Wilder winning due to Ortiz's age (37) same guys who hype up AJ after beating a 40 yearold  :)

They did infer multiple times that Ortiz is much older than he claims to be... but yes I agree

You can see why guys have been afraid to fight him, such a risky fight he has great solid fundamentals , Id have liked him to fight AJ but that won't happen now,

Ajsoprano

yourdeadwright wrote: »

You can see why guys have been afraid to fight him, such a risky fight he has great solid fundamentals , Id have liked him to fight AJ but that won't happen now,

If wilder beats aj it could happen

squinn2912

Ortiz AJ would be a very interesting fight. But I think that whoever eventually emerges with all the belts (if that happens) will fight a homecoming type fight or two rather than take on the cream of the division. By then a late 40s Ortiz will be finished up or getting KO'ed by mid ranking fighters. He's over 40 as it is I reckon. Very good fighter though. Shows the unfairness of the sport - opportunity isn't on ability alone. 
If the top standard of HW isn't great at the moment at least it's quite competitive. When Wlad went on a decade long run it became so boring. 
What fight are people most looking forward to at the moment?

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

Ortiz AJ would be a very interesting fight. But I think that whoever eventually emerges with all the belts (if that happens) will fight a homecoming type fight or two rather than take on the cream of the division. By then a late 40s Ortiz will be finished up or getting KO'ed by mid ranking fighters. He's over 40 as it is I reckon. Very good fighter though. Shows the unfairness of the sport - opportunity isn't on ability alone. 
If the top standard of HW isn't great at the moment at least it's quite competitive. When Wlad went on a decade long run it became so boring. 
What fight are people most looking forward to at the moment?

I tend to agree, its to late now for him by the time the Aj v WIlder fight happens he'll be well gone,
I don't know about  Parker, he seems to have got out of shape for his last two fights and carrying to much weight , Its impossible to tell how he'll shows up for AJ,
If he's leaner and quicker on his feet AJ may have a fight on his hands,

squinn2912

Yea I think that AJ will have a fight on his hands. Parker may even get him in trouble. But I can't see him having enough to beat him and that's what it's all about. I think AJ KO round 8. I'm rooting for Parker but I just don't see it in him there;s too much stacked against him. One thing is that he has great confidence in his own ability and up until now he has looked composed. When 90,000 are rattling at him and Joshua is coming across the ring bombing he may lose that composure. He had a handy route to a title and is a bit of an unknown quantity but to be coming into fights as champion in poor condition is unforgivable. That and the fact that he got a very controversial decision over H Fury don't bode too well for him. To even give AJ a scare he will need to perform above himself. If he doesn't come focussed then it's KO within 2 or 3 rounds.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yea I think that AJ will have a fight on his hands. Parker may even get him in trouble. But I can't see him having enough to beat him and that's what it's all about. I think AJ KO round 8. I'm rooting for Parker but I just don't see it in him there;s too much stacked against him. One thing is that he has great confidence in his own ability and up until now he has looked composed. When 90,000 are rattling at him and Joshua is coming across the ring bombing he may lose that composure. He had a handy route to a title and is a bit of an unknown quantity but to be coming into fights as champion in poor condition is unforgivable. That and the fact that he got a very controversial decision over H Fury don't bode too well for him. To even give AJ a scare he will need to perform above himself. If he doesn't come focussed then it's KO within 2 or 3 rounds.

I think Hughey is a guys who makes people look bad, he doesn't commit and boxes defence first very hard to have a good fight with him ,
I watched his fight with Takam which was two years ago , he seemed to be a step above him and AJ had some trouble with Takam who is now 37 and on 3 week notice,
Parker won't be a push over but his physical condition will dictate if he can make a proper go of it rather than just causing AJ a few issues on the way to a loss,
You get one shot at a huge win you need to be in the shape of your life, It really bugs me when guys come into huge fights out of shape infact its a disgrace

The man in red and black

Why do people think Ortiz is much older than 37/38 that he claims to be? Would it not be easy enough verify from when he started competing as an amateur etc?Is it a bit like Kanu playing for Portsmouth and Harry Redknapp reckoned he was 10 years older than he said?

squinn2912

Ha yea or obafemi martins there were question marks over his age too. I suppose Ortiz looks older I'm not sure but they have to be going on something!
Good point on Huey he's better than people give him credit for. Good point on Takam too.
If Parker doesn't turn up a warrior ill be disgusted but I think he will

The Nal

The man in red and black wrote: »

Why do people think Ortiz is much older than 37/38 that he claims to be?

Rumours but its done quite a bit so they can enter junior competitions a few years older and smash everyone. It also adds a bit of mystery to the fighter a la Sonny Liston.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

Ha yea or obafemi martins there were question marks over his age too. I suppose Ortiz looks older I'm not sure but they have to be going on something!
Good point on Huey he's better than people give him credit for. Good point on Takam too.
If Parker doesn't turn up a warrior ill be disgusted but I think he will

It most certainly happens isn't there a video of Kovalev out there saying Kathy Duva and HBO want to pretend I was born in 1983 to make more money, he then goes on to talk in detail about his dog he had in the 70's  
Ye Huey is a spoiler very hard to get at him , Fingers crossed Park is about 108 and he's been down there for a while so it doesn't effect his power, The new will see a good fight

squinn2912

yourdeadwright wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Ha yea or obafemi martins there were question marks over his age too. I suppose Ortiz looks older I'm not sure but they have to be going on something!
Good point on Huey he's better than people give him credit for. Good point on Takam too.
If Parker doesn't turn up a warrior ill be disgusted but I think he will

It most certainly happens isn't there a video of Kovalev out there saying Kathy Duva and HBO want to pretend I was born in 1983 to make more money, he then goes on to talk in detail about his dog he had in the 70's  
Ye Huey is a spoiler very hard to get at him , Fingers crossed Park is about 108 and he's been down there for a while so it doesn't effect his power, The new will see a good fight

Haha really?! That's nuts.
You mean 208? That would be very trim for him would it not? I really expected him to be much too fast for Huey but he couldn't lay a glove on him. He was well off pace though so a much better Parker should turn up for this fight. In only his mid 20s to be fluctuating weight so much is concerning. I'm more looking forward to Price and Povetkin I think there's a possibility of a better fight. Would love to see Price at least make a fight of it but after that interview I lost most of the hope I had.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Ha yea or obafemi martins there were question marks over his age too. I suppose Ortiz looks older I'm not sure but they have to be going on something!
Good point on Huey he's better than people give him credit for. Good point on Takam too.
If Parker doesn't turn up a warrior ill be disgusted but I think he will

It most certainly happens isn't there a video of Kovalev out there saying Kathy Duva and HBO want to pretend I was born in 1983 to make more money, he then goes on to talk in detail about his dog he had in the 70's  
Ye Huey is a spoiler very hard to get at him , Fingers crossed Park is about 108 and he's been down there for a while so it doesn't effect his power, The new will see a good fight

Haha really?! That's nuts.
You mean 208? That would be very trim for him would it not? I really expected him to be much too fast for Huey but he couldn't lay a glove on him. He was well off pace though so a much better Parker should turn up for this fight. In only his mid 20s to be fluctuating weight so much is concerning. I'm more looking forward to Price and Povetkin I think there's a possibility of a better fight. Would love to see Price at least make a fight of it but after that interview I lost most of the hope I had.

It was a done thing in Russia you always had older fighter's entering the Juniors and looking class to get better deals when they turn pro,
No no I mean 108 kg which is about 238 lbs ,He was 245lbs for the Fury fight  He's got that Pacific Islander build so he won't get much lighter than 238ish
Price has good skill and power but his chin will never hold up, He fights very up right for a man with a soft chin ,

squinn2912

Ah I see!!
Yea that weight would be about right even slightly lighter touching the 230 zone.

Yea it amazes me that no coach ever worked with him to stop him standing so straight presenting a target. An example of a guy who has fantastic attributes but never had to work on the weaknesses because they weren't discovered early enough. Now he could well be mentally shot because he never realized how vulnerable he is.

squinn2912

Saw there today that Tyson Fury has trained with Lucas Browne ahead of the Whyte fight

yourdeadwright

Looking forward to the weekend,
I suspect a good fight and a late stoppage from AJ , i'll say round 9 ,
Its going to be interesting to see what weight AJ comes at lots of people saying he looks a lot lighter than before and lighter than Rob McCrakin predicted a month ago , Will be good for his movement and speed but I wonder what it will do to his punch resistance as he really had no fat to lose so its likely just muscle he has cut,
We will finally get an idea of how good Parker is to, He hasn't looked great lately at all  but u'd expect him to be in the shape of his life for this one,

walshb

AJ will be low 240s judging by instagram

I don't think, (and I could be wrong), that Parker has the power to discourage and really bother AJ....This leading to AJ walking him down and beating him up for a clear win via KO-TKO.

If Parker wants to survive and becomes elusive and spoiling then it could go all the way...losing a wide points decision.

Parker is a decent boxer, but AJ is a better overall boxer. Parker, even if he decides to try and outpoint AJ, will fail.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

AJ will be low 240s judging by instagram

I don't think, (and I could be wrong), that Parker has the power to discourage and really bother AJ....This leading to AJ walking him down and beating him up for a clear win via KO-TKO.

If Parker wants to survive and becomes elusive and spoiling then it could go all the way...losing a wide points decision.

If Parker has any sense, he will try to box up close on the front foot and tire AJ ,
Now obviously that mean's his chin has to stand up to Aj power but I think it's the only chance he has of winning, As you said if he runs AJ wins on points,
More than likely he feels AJ's power and runs to just survive 12 rounds, but I really do think he can only win by getting in his face and walking through the fire for the first half of the fight,
Can he do probably not but I can't see him wining any other way,

walshb

Agreed

His chances to win are to hit AJ, be in his face and kind of bring the heat and offence to him....

If I was more confident in his offensive power I could give him a good chance. I reckon he does let the shots go and does land, but that AJ is not overly bothered and is returning far better fire resulting in the KO win for AJ.

My prediction is that Parker tries the elusive boxing/punching strategy (in and out and on the move after he attacks) and ends up losing within 5. He tries the very elusive/spoiling strategy it goes on longer.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

Agreed

His chances to win are to hit AJ, be in his face and kind of bring the heat and offence to him....

If I was more confident in his offensive power I could give him a good chance. I reckon he does let the shots go and does land, but that AJ is not overly bothered and is returning far better fire resulting in the KO win for AJ.

My prediction is that Parker tries the elusive boxing/punching strategy (in and out and on the move after he attacks) and ends up losing within 5. He tries the very elusive/spoiling strategy it goes on longer.

I tend to agree,
I do wonder will the lose of weight effect AJ's punch resistance which people have questioned already, .

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I tend to agree,
I do wonder will the lose of weight effect AJ's punch resistance which people have questioned already, .

He's 250 lbs....I don't think 7-8 lbs south of this will play too much of a role.

It's kind of an impossible question to answer anyway..

The most innocuous of shots can drop big men. Timing, speed and placement of the shot all play a part, as well as the man's size/physiology/makeup and natural abilities to take and shake a shot.

Stamina and cardio conditioning also very important in being able to weather a shot(s) and recover to fight on....

There is the whole caught cold and early shot(s) and the late and tiring shots. There is so much to it.

walshb

Targeting AJs ripped body (easier said than done) may be of benefit to Parker? Take the steam out of him and have a better chance to get the win, or even KO. A tiring AJ come rd 5 or 6 could be taken out via head shot(s).....?

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I tend to agree,
I do wonder will the lose of weight effect AJ's punch resistance which people have questioned already, .

He's 250 lbs....I don't think 7-8 lbs south of this will play too much of a role.

It's kind of an impossible question to answer anyway..

The most innocuous of shots can drop big men. Timing, speed and placement of the shot all play a part, as well as the man's size/physiology/makeup and natural abilities to take and shake a shot.

Stamina and cardio conditioning also very important in being able to weather a shot(s) and recover to fight on....

There is the whole caught cold and early shot(s) and the late and tiring shots. There is so much to it.

Well he was 254 v Takam and if he is 240 on Friday that is a stone in the difference ,
With AJ its not like he has lost fat its a stone of pure muscle, I'd also imagine that's mostly from his upper body ,  it'll be very interesting to see does it effect him and if Parker can even land the shots to test it out ,
Again this is purely on the speculation that he has lost that weight,

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Well he was 254 v Takam and if he is 240 on Friday that is a stone in the difference ,
With AJ its not like he has lost fat its a stone of pure muscle, I'd also imagine that's mostly from his upper body ,  it'll be very interesting to see does it effect him and if Parker can even land the shots to test it out ,
Again this is purely on the speculation that he has lost that weight,

Most of it is muscle, but even AJ has some fat. And his 254 weigh in was real bulk, and likely more fat than previous fights and lower weights.

If he is low 240s it will be more solid ripped.

14 lbs is a fair bit, but for him it's all about overall percentages.

Maybe for the Takam fight he "let himself go" a little.....just a little, hence his coming in at his heaviest. Only he and his team can know this.

His being knocked down was against Wlad where he weighed in at 250 lbs? Hmm.... Not sure what his fight night weight was vs. Wlad compared to his Takam fight night weight...

There's just so much to consider, and even after considering it you cannot definitively come to any solid conclusions. It's HW boxing, where big men are hitting you quite forcefully to your head. How your head reacts and how your body reacts is all in the moment.

squinn2912

Good points lads and yea I agree. I see AJ stopping this in the mid rounds the farthest it goes for me is 9. What I think is that if Parker is in there during that time then there’s a chance as long as he throws something. I’d hate to see a world champion coming to survive. Cagey opening 2 rounds and then drama in 3. The ko could come that early for me.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

Good points lads and yea I agree. I see AJ stopping this in the mid rounds the farthest it goes for me is 9. What I think is that if Parker is in there during that time then there’s a chance as long as he throws something. I’d hate to see a world champion coming to survive. Cagey opening 2 rounds and then drama in 3. The ko could come that early for me.

Ye I'm in the boat , a champion trying to survive is very disappointing but I do understand when you take a couple of big shots you know yourself if your capable or not and know one wants to be ko'd
He should go in there  knowing he's going to have to take some big shots to do it and if he is durable he has a chance,

walshb

Some people are thinking that Parker's Samoan DNA is going the make him take AJs shots.......

I am not so sure...

MD1990

Parker is tough.
He is going to jab & move to try get a points win.

But it will be nowhere near good enough to win. Joshua to stop him late.

walshb

Parker on the gloves are off says he is going to chase AJ around....

AJ says he won't need to as he will meet him head on

Hagler/Hearns, anyone?

normanoffside

I'll be waiting to see the weigh-in before making any predictions or bets, but from initial looks at Parker he appears to be a little thinner in the face than previous. Anyone else think the same?

squinn2912

normanoffside wrote: »

I'll be waiting to see the weigh-in before making any predictions or bets, but from initial looks at Parker he appears to be a little thinner in the face than previous. Anyone else think the same?

I think so too. He had operations or injections to his elbows recently and apparently that is allowing him to train much better and hit harder… they say. If he can train better and he knows he's getting in with a killer then he should ensure he's at least fit. AJ does leave himself wide open at times so if he hangs in there he will get a chance to ping - just needs to time it right. He will need to rob it some way if they brawl then aj will rip him apart.
On the Samoan heritage I think that is complete nonsense. It adds a bit of background to the fight for the media but I think he's tough and durable anyway. I would love to see him go and give it some. On your point earlier yea I get that too. It's all well and good coming to fight but after you feel the power that can change things.
Did anyone watch Ritson (I think) fight on the Whyte undercard? Cardle came out and tried to rush him then went out of steam inside a round. I could see that happening to Parker but I hope it doesn't. I'd love a fight where both of them come out of it with some credibility or a shock Parker victory - gotta love the underdog. If anything it would shut up those sycophantic commentators and cling ons like Haye, Froch etc for a blissful 10 seconds.

yourdeadwright

normanoffside wrote: »

I'll be waiting to see the weigh-in before making any predictions or bets, but from initial looks at Parker he appears to be a little thinner in the face than previous. Anyone else think the same?

Parker camp have said they tried to bulk him up for recent fights to add more power but have decided that it didn't work and he looked worse ,
They are on record of saying they want him to weigh about 108 kg this time around ,

normanoffside

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Parker camp have said they tried to bulk him up for recent fights to add more power but have decided that it didn't work and he looked worse ,
They are on record of saying they want him to weigh about 108 kg this time around ,

That’s 17 Stone/ 238lbs I think. Still a bit much for him IMO. He was 234 as recently ago as against Takam, he looked in good shape then.
He was 245/246 in recent fights and looked awful.

squinn2912

I think you’re right. If he comes in 230-235 then he’s going to be quick

Henno30

Anyone picking Parker for this?

StringerBell

Henno30 wrote: »

Anyone picking Parker for this?

No but I do give him a good shot if he can rattle AJ early

squinn2912

Here's a thought that's just occurred to me. I've been very preoccupied with the idea that either AJ blows Parker away, it goes on for a little while and then AJ blows Parker away or Parker can weather the storm and find a punch against the run of play, capitalise and get the win… I still think those (particularly scenario 1&2)  are the more likely but if this fight does go to points and something none of us expect happens - Parker has the better of the fight - would Parker get the decision? I couldn't see it. AJ is the cash cow and they won't want to kill it. I could see judges in the pocket for this one if it goes that far. I hope against hope that the referee doesn't tailor his approach to suit AJ because I feel that too would mean curtains. Maybe it just looks like that. In the Takam fight I thought he broke the fight up thus removing any real opportunity Takam had. Takam was probably still going to lose but he didn't make it any harder for AJ anyhow. I thought the same during the Whyte fight in round 1 anyhow. Didn;t change the outcome of course. I was hoping AJ wouldn't win so maybe that influences my view of the whole thing.
Just some thoughts.

walshb

Well, I just hope the anti AJ bias, which seems rather prevalent here doesn't get the cries of robbery or foul should Parker lose a decision in a clearly competitive and close type of fight.

You know the type of cries when a fighter does better than expected. They are almost given extra scores and points juts for this alone...

squinn2912

walshb wrote: »

Well, I just hope the anti AJ bias, which seems rather prevalent here doesn't get the cries of robbery or foul should Parker lose a decision in a clearly competitive and close type of fight.

You know the type of cries when a fighter does better than expected. They are almost given extra scores and points juts for this alone...

Sounds like you're going back to the AJ/Fury wins over Wlad. I think everyone is entitled to make their own mind up about that but I'm not going into mine any more. I think most of the contributors here are committed to having a mature discussion and learning experience. I know I've made a few points here that have been met with disagreement. I welcome that; it helps me develop my opinion on things. 
If it's a close fight then Parker will have done very well but ultimately I really don't want the decision to go to the wrong man.

MD1990

Suprised how many supporters Fury has. Guy is funny outside ring but he is very boring fighter to watch imo.

Joshua v Klit was one of the best heavyweight fight in the last 10 years.

yourdeadwright

MD1990 wrote: »

Suprised how many supporters Fury has. Guy is funny outside ring but he is very boring fighter to watch imo.

Joshua v Klit was one of the best heavyweight fight in the last 10 years.

I think people recognise Fury is a very talented fighter and enjoy watching talented fighters,
Does it surprise you that Floyd had so many supports ,another man who never  really had exciting fights , 
Some people love the art of shutting someone else down others love a good brawl , each to there own and all that,
Personally I think Aj v Wlad was one of the most exciting but not one of the best performances in recent years, again its a personal preference ,

walshb

I think Fury when he commits and fights is enjoyable to watch.

squinn2912

But anyhow. The prospect of two young, unbeaten fighters facing one another to unify world titles is amazing! It looks as though one has the potential to demolish the other but there certainly is a lingering doubt about that. On Sunday we could be saying different things about one being all talk etc but at the moment it's very compelling viewing!

MD1990

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think people recognise Fury is a very talented fighter and enjoy watching talented fighters,
Does it surprise you that Floyd had so many supports ,another man who never  really had exciting fights , 
Some people love the art of shutting someone else down others love a good brawl , each to there own and all that,
Personally I think Aj v Wlad was one of the most exciting but not one of the best performances in recent years, again its a personal preference ,

Can't compare the skills of Floyd to Fury. Though Fury is a skilled fighter.

Before Gatti Floyd was an exciting fighter. He had to change because of hand unjuries.

yourdeadwright

MD1990 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think people recognise Fury is a very talented fighter and enjoy watching talented fighters,
Does it surprise you that Floyd had so many supports ,another man who never  really had exciting fights , 
Some people love the art of shutting someone else down others love a good brawl , each to there own and all that,
Personally I think Aj v Wlad was one of the most exciting but not one of the best performances in recent years, again its a personal preference ,

Can't compare the skills of Floyd to Fury. Though Fury is a skilled fighter.

Before Gatti Floyd was an exciting fighter. He had to change because of hand unjuries.

Obviously poles apart , I mean in terms of guys don't have to be exciting to have fans ,

walshb

Poles apart due more to their massive size and weight differences.

Cannot compare the skillets (accurately) of a 5 feet 8 inch 130-147 lbs fighter to a 6 feet 9 inch 250 lbs fighter.

Trying to matter of fact claim that the smaller man is more skilled is pointless. You can't compare them because of their huge size differences....

I have always said that for such a big man, Fury is quite skilled.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

Poles apart due more to their massive size and weight differences.

Cannot compare the skillets (accurately) of a 5 feet 8 inch 130-147 lbs fighter to a 6 feet 9 inch 250 lbs fighter.

Trying to matter of fact claim that the smaller man is more skilled is pointless. You can't compare them because of their huge size differences....

I have always said that for such a big man, Fury is quite skilled.

I was going for poles apart in the longevity at the very top of the tree,

squinn2912

The funny thing about the heavyweights currently is that so many of them are untested and hard to gauge. Up until the last few weeks there were so many quite relevant fighters still on an 0

The Nal

squinn2912 wrote: »

The funny thing about the heavyweights currently is that so many of them are untested and hard to gauge. Up until the last few weeks there were so many quite relevant fighters still on an 0

Thats what selling a lot of these fights. Lucas Browne was 25-0 until last week. And hes a total punchbag.

Hearn needs to get AJ vs Wilder on later this year. Both 0 losses. Biggest heavyweight fight in years. Assuming AJ passes the test on Saturday.

walshb

The Nal wrote: »

Thats what selling a lot of these fights. Lucas Browne was 25-0 until last week. And hes a total punchbag.

Hearn needs to get AJ vs Wilder on later this year. Both 0 losses. Biggest heavyweight fight in years. Assuming AJ passes the test on Saturday.

Very true. It's a shambles all the postulating and procrastinating that goes on in getting these big fights sorted.

We don't give a fook about Whyte-Wilder or AJ-Whyte II etc etc.....

Make AJ-Wilder before 2019....

yourdeadwright

The Nal wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

The funny thing about the heavyweights currently is that so many of them are untested and hard to gauge. Up until the last few weeks there were so many quite relevant fighters still on an 0

Thats what selling a lot of these fights. Lucas Browne was 25-0 until last week. And hes a total punchbag.

Hearn needs to get AJ vs Wilder on later this year. Both 0 losses. Biggest heavyweight fight in years. Assuming AJ passes the test on Saturday.

There's no way it happens this year,
All week Hearn is pushing Whyte V Wilder,
I think they are till not sure how good Wilder is and hope Whyte gets rid of him cause if AJ loses there cash cow is gone, Not Aj's fault he probably wants the fight,