Saudi woman arrested for wearing skirt

Nagnata

Horrible culture probably 1000 years behind our western culture nd values.

RustyNut

Nagnata wrote: »

Horrible culture probably 1000 years behind our western culture nd values.

But the "west" are still willing to give them billions of dollars worth of weapons because "we" like their oil and money, no matter that they are the biggest financier of isis and their like.

Diplomacy needs to learn morals.

Ulysses Gaze

RustyNut wrote: »

But the "west" are still willing to give them billions of dollars worth of weapons because "we" like their oil and money, no matter that they are the biggest financier of isis and their like.

Diplomacy needs to learn morals.

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first." - Ronald Reagan

steddyeddy

Hande hoche! wrote: »

The level of hypocrisy, in the Saudi's accusations of terror funding by Qatar, was astonishing.

Saudi Arabia is the type of state IS aim to build.

"Someone breaks a law in another country and is punished according to that law" is just such a bizzarre idea for a performative outrage thread

bear1

While on the one hand this was a bit foolish on the girls behalf considering the **** hole she did it in but I must commend her bravery for going against the idiocy which is Saudi law.
I imagine she will be given lashes for this and just goes to show we don't realise how good we have it in Europe.

Carry

I'm still wondering about the motives of the young woman. She apparently claims that she didn't upload the clip but the one whoever filmed it.

I like to think that she wanted to feel free for once, wanted to be a visible woman not an invisible chadored one. I even like to think that she wanted to make a statement: Look, Saudi women! If I can do it you can do it, too!

But maybe this is wishful thinking.

Apparently she kicked off a discussion on twitter et al. in the Arab world - lots of support and lots of condemnation. Her actions might have consequences personally for her, but it might be a start, kind of a small step that women in that country can liberate themselves eventually, step by step.

Women in the Western world once had to do "outrageous" things, too, to set themselves free. The catholic church and followers are still trying hard to put women in their places. And even here on oh so open-minded boards there are still outcries of "effing feminists and lesbians" whenever the fair men of this lovely island feel threatened by an assertive and opinionated woman.

Probably she will be punished, hopefully she kicked off a certain awareness among Arab women. They are not all meek.

BillyBobBS

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Joke of a country.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/07/18/a-video-of-a-woman-in-a-skirt-sparks-outrage-in-saudi-arabia/?hpid=hp_hp-cards_hp-card-world%3Ahomepage%2Fcard&utm_term=.c70060b09cae

The sooner the west stops buying oil from and supporting this regime the better. They make stone age men look enlightened.

Personally iv'e zero problem with it. It's their country their cultures and customs.

Just don't come to my country and attempt to change our cultures and customs and then call me racist for calling you out on it.

Shurimgreat

Deleted User wrote: »

"Someone breaks a law in another country and is punished according to that law" is just such a bizzarre idea for a performative outrage thread

Its a bit more complicated than how you portray it.
The country has an appalling human rights record, particularly against women and minorities. It also has a dubious link to terrorism. The Bin Ladens for example are a very respected family in Saudi Arabia. It is also carrying out a hideous siege of Yemen. Women are treated in Saudi Arabia as if they are in a prison. The country refuses to move with the times and as another poster said its roughly 1000 years behind most of the world in terms of progress. At this stage its not really a country the west should have any dealings with. That our leaders crawl over their cap in hand looking for oil or weapons deals is increasingly pathetic, and we are funding a regime that does all this. It all stems from our dependence on oil.

TheQuietFella

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Joke of a country.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/07/18/a-video-of-a-woman-in-a-skirt-sparks-outrage-in-saudi-arabia/?hpid=hp_hp-cards_hp-card-world%3Ahomepage%2Fcard&utm_term=.c70060b09cae

The sooner the west stops buying oil from and supporting this regime the better. They make stone age men look enlightened.

Well why then don't you go over there and make your protest!

Shurimgreat

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Personally iv'e zero problem with it. It's their country their cultures and customs.

Just don't come to my country and attempt to change our cultures and customs and then call me racist for calling you out on it.

Its not a culture to admire or applaud. The one good thing about the west is we are free to criticise virtually everything including other people's culture and customs.

What has racism got to do with any of this by the way

Shurimgreat

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Well why then don't you go over there and make your protest!

You think the protest of a joe soap like me will make a difference?

Its our elected politicians who need to make the protest and also it would be useful if the UN made a protest the odd time.

seachto7

Trump has no problem calling the Mexicans "bad dudes". He should be using his soapbox to have a pop at the Saudis. But he won't...

Tabnabs

Oh the hysteria, oh the faux outrage. How is it any different to what is happening right here in Europe?


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/24/french-burkini-ban-row-escalates-clothing-incident-woman-police-nice-beach

When the state tells you what you can and cannot wear, there is something fundamentally wrong with it (and society by extension), it is overreaching its mandate. But no, it's the durty muslims and their buddy Trump...

Shurimgreat

Shurimgreat wrote: »

They make stone age men look enlightened.

Perhaps - but we live in a society ourselves with a few people who worry about what public toilet people use - what changing room a child brings their parents into at the pool - get uppity and offended if a woman breast feeds in public - and the occasional Jack or Jane Soap who demands restaurant staff and owners rush to their aid if they are forced to observe two men merely holding hands at a near by table.

And there is something terribly ominous about French police going around beaches telling women to take clothes off.

So it is hard to get myself too triggered over the insane nonsense of another country really. Best clean up our own house before dust checking anyone else's sideboards.

We are not exactly shining lights of universal enlightenment ourselves at times.

Shurimgreat

Tabnabs wrote: »

Oh the hysteria, oh the faux outrage. How is it any different to what is happening right here in Europe?


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/24/french-burkini-ban-row-escalates-clothing-incident-woman-police-nice-beach

When the state tells you what you can and cannot wear, there is something fundamentally wrong with it (and society by extension), it is overreaching its mandate. But no, it's the durty muslims and their buddy Trump...

The difference is the woman on the beach was unlikely to be arrested, just asked to move on and was also unlikely to face lashes. She was also allowed to drive home if she chose and she is also allowed sunbathe on a beach without the presence of a male relative. Her attire was not in keeping with liberal values or the 21st century for that matter.

Roger Hassenforder

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Perhaps - but we live in a society ourselves with a few people who worry about what public toilet people use - what changing room a child brings their parents into at the pool - get uppity and offended if a woman breast feeds in public - and the occasional Jack or Jane Soap who demands restaurant staff and owners rush to their aid if they are forced to observe two men merely holding hands at a near by table.

We are not exactly shining lights of universal enlightenment ourselves at times.

Ah heor. None of these are state policies that would land you in prison or a whole lot worse. I hate dogs in restaraunts, so does this mean I can't criticise intolerant and oppressive regimes?

We're a beacon of tolerance and enlightenment in comparison, the fourth country to have an openly gay prime minister suggests we've moved, and are moving on, considerably.

Shurimgreat

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps - but we live in a society ourselves with a few people who worry about what public toilet people use - what changing room a child brings their parents into at the pool - get uppity and offended if a woman breast feeds in public - and the occasional Jack or Jane Soap who demands restaurant staff and owners rush to their aid if they are forced to observe two men merely holding hands at a near by table.

And there is something terribly ominous about French police going around beaches telling women to take clothes off.

So it is hard to get myself too triggered over the insane nonsense of another country really. Best clean up our own house before dust checking anyone else's sideboards.

We are not exactly shining lights of universal enlightenment ourselves at times.

You cannot seriously compare Western Europe with Saudi Arabia. They aren't even close.

Here's some idea of the laughable restrictions imposed on Saudi women.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/60339/nine-things-women-cant-do-in-saudi-arabia

Hector Savage

Tabnabs wrote: »

Oh the hysteria, oh the faux outrage. How is it any different to what is happening right here in Europe?


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/24/french-burkini-ban-row-escalates-clothing-incident-woman-police-nice-beach

When the state tells you what you can and cannot wear, there is something fundamentally wrong with it (and society by extension), it is overreaching its mandate. But no, it's the durty muslims and their buddy Trump...

Oh its the guardian .. what a surprise, trying to have the burka as something empowering to women :rolleyes:

Big difference here, you could say this is a security issue.

Tabnabs

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The difference is the woman on the beach was unlikely to be arrested, just asked to move on and was also unlikely to face lashes. She was also allowed to drive home if she chose and she is also allowed sunbathe on a beach without the presence of a male relative. Her attire was not in keeping with liberal values or the 21st century for that matter.

No she was fined for wearing "inappropriate" clothing. Fined. Who was the victim in this heinous crime exactly? I think you need to spend some time and effort in understanding liberalism if you think this is perfectly acceptable.

Tabnabs

Hector Savage wrote: »

Oh its the guardian .. what a surprise, trying to have the burka as something empowering to women :rolleyes:

Big difference here, you could say this is a security issue.

You're clearly more of a Daily Mail reader, not a problem guv'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3754395/Wealthy-Algerian-promises-pay-penalty-Muslim-woman-fined-France-wearing-burkini.html

:rolleyes: as you put it...

A security issue? we should lock them all up, just in case, eh.

wordofwarning

Tabnabs wrote: »

Oh the hysteria, oh the faux outrage. How is it any different to what is happening right here in Europe?

When the state tells you what you can and cannot wear, there is something fundamentally wrong with it (and society by extension), it is overreaching its mandate. But no, it's the durty muslims and their buddy Trump...

In Europe, you can wear literally nothing in some cities (eg all the nude parks and swimming pools in Germany) or wear as much clothing as you want. But the difference between Europe and the Middle East, is that in Europe you make your own choice. In Saudi Arabia, the state tells you what to wear

If you read the Koran (FYI I have not...), it says women must dress modestly. In Iran before the revolution, women wore clothes than a group of Irish goes going to Santa Ponsa. Yet the state told women how to dress. Most women in Iran want to dress like Irish girls, but are forced to cover up.

The reasoning for police etc telling women on a beach in France etc not to dress in the 'Islamic' wear, is that it is not generally the women who has made the choice. It is the husband or family members forcing her to do so. The state is trying to liberate women by telling them, what they can and can't wear as it was likely not the woman's choice to wear this in the first place.

Roger Hassenforder

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Ah heor. None of these are state policies that would land you in prison or a whole lot worse.

Nor did I say they were

I was not commenting on the political or legal state of the situation. I was commenting on the aspect of worrying about what women wear - and I find I can not lord my morals over freedom of dress over another culture - given the petty little concerns some people in my own culture have over inane and insignificant things like breast feeding in public and men holding hands in a restaurant.

That they put people in prison for it - and lash them for it - when people in my own culture merely go and whinge on social media about it is a _different_ concern to the one I was commenting on and you will get no disagreement from me on that one. I would say you and I are on the same page there.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

You cannot seriously compare Western Europe with Saudi Arabia. They aren't even close.

Ok - then when I make a post actually doing that you can pull me up on it. But I was not doing that. I was comparing the concern over how people dress in one culture with the equally petty and insignificant concerns we have in our own.

I have actually _met_ people who would scream about women in other cultures not being allowed wear a skirt who would then also go nuts if they saw a woman breast feeding on a bench in a public park.

So I just feel that perhaps we could address the nonsense like that before we worry about the fashion sense of any other culture. That people are imprisoned or whipped or both for their fashion statements in another culture however is a different point and you will get no argument from me that _that_ is worthy of concern and comment.

Outlaw Pete

Never understand how feminists don't make these kinds of issues faced by women a top priority for them.

Even when I first heard of Malala Yousafzai it was when a docu about was shown in the IFI.

They speak out about manspreading and mansplaining more than they do about these kind of situations.

Shurimgreat

wordofwarning wrote: »

In Europe, you can wear literally nothing in some cities (eg all the nude parks and swimming pools in Germany) or wear as much clothing as you want. But the difference between Europe and the Middle East, is that in Europe you make your own choice. In Saudi Arabia, the state tells you what to wear

If you read the Koran (FYI I have not...), it says women must dress modestly. In Iran before the revolution, women wore clothes than a group of Irish goes going to Santa Ponsa. Yet the state told women how to dress. Most women in Iran want to dress like Irish girls, but are forced to cover up.

The reasoning for police etc telling women on a beach in France etc not to dress in the 'Islamic' wear, is that it is not generally the women who has made the choice. It is the husband or family members forcing her to do so. The state is trying to liberate women by telling them, what they can and can't wear as it was likely not the woman's choice to wear this in the first place.

+1

Great Post.

Yourself isit

Tabnabs wrote: »

No she was fined for wearing "inappropriate" clothing. Fined. Who was the victim in this heinous crime exactly? I think you need to spend some time and effort in understanding liberalism if you think this is perfectly acceptable.

What exactly is the point of mentioning the French law on this thread? It was discussed here at the time and most opposed it.

end of the road

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The difference is the woman on the beach was unlikely to be arrested, just asked to move on and was also unlikely to face lashes. She was also allowed to drive home if she chose and she is also allowed sunbathe on a beach without the presence of a male relative. Her attire was not in keeping with liberal values or the 21st century for that matter.

it doesn't matter, the state was still interfering in relation to how she dresses, meaning in that regard they are in a way no better then saudi.
Her attire not being in keeping with liberal values or the 21st century is irrelevant, she should be free to wear it in a free society. if there is evidence she is being forced to wear it against her will, then by all means lock up the person or persons doing the forcing.

wordofwarning wrote: »

The reasoning for police etc telling women on a beach in France etc not to dress in the 'Islamic' wear, is that it is not generally the women who has made the choice. It is the husband or family members forcing her to do so. The state is trying to liberate women by telling them, what they can and can't wear as it was likely not the woman's choice to wear this in the first place.

yeah, sure that is the reason all right. it wouldn't be about placating the racist element of society.

thomasm

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The sooner the west stops buying oil from and supporting this regime the better. They make stone age men look enlightened.

The U.S is almost 80% self sufficient now thanks to shale oil so expect to see less intervention in middle east going forward and their "stabilizing influence" will be no more

Yourself isit

thomasm wrote: »

The U.S is almost 80% self sufficient now thanks to shale oil so expect to see less intervention in middle east going forward and their "stabilizing influence" will be no more

Oil never had anything to do with it.

tvnutz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN8q20tzaLQ