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Would you be ok with white Irish becoming a minority?
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InTheTrees wrote: »Yikes.
So the Professor, who is a "legal professor" according to the story, is quoting an "unidentified" source from a UK university, as claiming the Chinese will be the majority in Ireland by the middle of the century!
And it was written in 2005.
Well I willing to guess he is better educated than either you or I.
Still you only need look at the latest census to see how the Irish are becoming a minority in many areas.
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Well I willing to guess he is better educated than either you or I.
Still you only need look at the latest census to see how the are becoming a minority in many areas.
well unless his education is in a relevant area then it doesnt really matter does it?
Though it was odd that you didnt mention this bit of the articleHe added, "People are nervous about immigration. But immigration is almost always a good thing. People think immigrants come here and take jobs, but the opposite is true. They will come and create jobs."0 -
ohnonotgmail wrote: »well unless his education is in a relevant area then it doesnt really matter does it?
Though it was odd that you didnt mention this bit of the article
so he is to be believed when he says something positive about immigration but disbelieved when he mentions that this will cause us to become a minority?
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InTheTrees wrote: »I think its more down to the reporter who wrote the story. Is a story from 2015, referring to what the esteemed professor said in 2005.
"Professor Ferdinand von Prondzynski was referring to an unidentified United Kingdom based research. Speaking at the conferring ceremony at DCU he said that the Irish in Ireland will be a minority by 2050 while the Chinese may form the largest ethnic group."Save
Well he still said it, and he is highly educated.
Since 2005 the facts speak for themselves.
Twelve areas in Ireland where immigrants are more than 50% of the population. 0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »Well he still said it, and he is highly educated.
Since 2005 the facts speak for themselves.
Twelve areas in Ireland where immigrants are more than 50% of the population.
They could still have been born in Ireland0 -
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 59030
The "Irish will become a minority in their own country" part is not my takeaway from that. That's a red herring and panicked, even paranoid hyperbole. What is my takeaway is the ghettoisation we have seen repeated across the European continent(often simplistically blamed on past imperialism and/or racism) is already coming home to roost locally. And as we've seen such geographical demographics never work out in the positive in the long term.Deleted User wrote: »Well I willing to guess he is better educated than either you or I.
Still you only need look at the latest census to see how the Irish are becoming a minority in many areas.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Joeytheparrot wrote: »And?
Ah that was just me having a bit of fun.
Those who are particularly preoccupied with it, and think it's a huge issue, are racists, yes. But on the other hand... if there were no other races, they'd no doubt find some other group to obsessively hate. So maybe they're not true racists. Maybe they're just horrible, angry people.
Well the question of who we are is a fairly big one. It doesn't make much sense to be overly preoccupied about it, as there is only so much you can do to affect your society. However, an individual can do much less to affect climate change, but that doesn't mean it necessarily makes sense to simply ignore it (granted climate change is a more serious question, but it is also much further down the line before it makes any negative impact upon people living in Ireland). It isn't reasonable to be 'hateful', but instead pragmatic. It makes as much sense to be hating on any individual people, in terms of demographic changes in Europe, as it would (in relation to climate change) to rant about the United Arab Emirates due to their enormous carbon footprint (because either would be missing the bigger picture).
The fact that honestly there has been no serious negative aspects to immigration in Ireland to date is something to be lauded, but it is not proof that we shouldn't be mindful going forward. Measuring the success of integration by number of terrorist atrocities is like measuring restaurant hygiene by number of people who die from food poisoning. Indeed, looking at our European neighbors, such as France, England and Germany should give us some pause. Much of the societal problems those countries are now facing in their cities are entirely of their own creation: caused mainly by colonial entanglements, greed, the desire to look progressive, or some combination of the three. For instance Germany's large Turkish population was due to the desire to have cheap unskilled labor, with the assumption that these workers would return 'home' once construction projects were completed, not thinking that people who have left everything behind and have started families in their host country would not see that as their 'home'. This shortsighted policy has resulted in large multi-generational communities in Germany who view themselves as Turkish first, and German a distant second. Germany sought to compound their mistake last year by importing a million migrants. Good luck with that.
It's an issue that people are inclined to get worked up about, after all, countless wars have been caused because of it. But as part of the worthwhile ambition to encourage people to be rational, and not worked up, we should also not behave as if one side has some sort of monopoly on being worked up. Joey.0 -
RandomName2 wrote: »I can't remember the last time I saw a habit wearing nun - thank God. And yes, the "don't let women show their hair" (or anything else that could be associated with sexuality or attractiveness) is a typical aspect of extreme conservative ideologies like the Catholic Church in Ireland was. Yet even with all that, face-covering was never as aspect of garb in the Catholic Church in Ireland (and women, outside of those who were "married to Jesus", were only policed in terms of ostentatiously "sexy" attire).
Also everything that Wibbs said. Just for completeness, Niqab is the half-way house between Burka and Hijab (can show eyes, but nothing else). I've seen some of those in the capital, but I think I've only once seen a Burka in Ireland (possibly because the Taliban don't control much territory here).
I've seen several in my nearest large town. In each case, these women were pushing buggies (often twin buggies), and carrying several bags of shopping, while walking several steps behind their western suited husbands.
It made me want to tell the men to man up, and show a little respect for their wives, rather than treating them like bests of burden, tbh.I'm Irish , I speak Irish , but I'm not white.
I find white Irish people as a whole a little ignorant, also I read some studies that found white Irish people not as intelligent as their European counterparts, either way it doesn't bother me but I feel it couldn't do any harm either.
That's a rather racist statement, tbh - and one that wouldn't be tolerated about any other Nationality.
Also, do you consider yourself to be a little ignorant, since you define yourself as Irish, but not white Irish?
Or is it only the white Irish who you consider to be a little ignorant?sondagefaux wrote: »Overall since 1991, Ireland has had net inward migration, even taking into account the period between 2009 and 2015 when there was net outward migration.
However, the total net outward migration from 2009 to 2015 wasn't enough to counteract the net inward migration from 1991 to 2008 and since 2015.
Basically Ireland has been a net recipient of people, most of them non-Irish, since 1991.
It proves that Ireland is a successful country, which is attractive enough to people of other nationalities to convince them to upend their lives and move to Ireland.
Moving from your home country to another country is still a very big deal and still comparatively rare - only about 3.5% of the world's population lives in countries other than the countries of their birth.
The fact that Ireland has about four times this percentage simply proves how much more attractive it is as a destination for other people than most countries in the world - a sure sign of successful country.
This is something to celebrate, not something to be upset about.
Is it? Because I've spoken to several non-European Immigrants, and the reason they gave for moving to Ireland was that our Immigration laws weren't as strict as the UK, or other European Countries.Insularity was a word associated with the British but it applies also to the Irish. There are people in Ireland who are seeing foreigners for the first time in their lives. I have been up the Niger and Congo rivers where little children ran screaming to their mothers when I came into sight. Something similar is going on in Ireland with some adults. Over time with more exposure they will not feel so threatened. Small towns not within commuting distance of sizeable cities are in decline in the developed world. Saskatchewan and Manitoba in Canada have been losing small towns since the 1950s'. This was due to farms increasing in size from 160 acres to thousands of acres resulting in a huge drop in the rural population. Cities grew as a result of services and manufacturing and the influx of workers. I have seen groups campaigning for the entry of French speaking refugees from republic of Congo to small towns on the basis it would stop the decline in population. You will see more of this in Ireland and it will be promoted by community leaders and businesses to avoid property depreciation and loss of businesses.
The FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) factor is what the racists spread everywhere. Ireland is not exceptional in its anxiety about change but change we will, because TINA. Of course the birth rate could be increased but then the Gov't would have to pay maternity and childcare costs until the children enter full time primary school. Can you see TDs and their funders opting for the tax increase required.
That's assuming that Immigrants don't have children. Which is utterly, and demonstrably, incorrect.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »Well I willing to guess he is better educated than either you or I.
Still you only need look at the latest census to see how the Irish are becoming a minority in many areas.
Yup. And two of those "Non Irish" are my two children, both born outside the state (in the UK) but who have lived here since infancy when their two Irish born (and very white, nay pasty-faced) parents returned from some years as immigrants.
I think with respect, you need to go back and read the story of King Canute, a wise old Danish immigrant to England back in the 10th or 11th century who demonstrated that even someone such as he who wielded supreme executive power was powerless in some things. Such as turning back the tide.
Mankind is a migratory species. You can't change that. You just have to manage the process amicably.0 -
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