Fat kids

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

Says a lot about our society when mothers don't want to do what's best for their baby because it would interfere with them going on the piss.

That was just one small part, the getting up every single night and morning, can't even go away for a few hours etc etc. Lots of women aren't comfortable doing it in public either so they literally are stuck in the house. As I said the majority of recent mothers I know have opted for bottle feeding as overall it just makes things a little easier for them.

Also they have been carrying a baby for 9 months they damn well deserve a few drinks.

RobertKK

It is bad parenting, often fat children have fat parents, so one generation giving their children their gift of increased risk of poor heath and disease.

OU812

Sadb wrote: »

You clearly have no clue about breastfeeding, the first feeds are colostrum always, the milk always kicks in later and no starving there.

So the breast is best brigade were with you in your ward scourning you? Did you even ask for or contact a lactation consultant?

That is in your experience, that is not to say that other mothers can't breastfeed after a Caesarian.

Show me an actual study that proves that artificial milk is best for baby.

Everyone has a right to decide to breastfeed if they wish, don't try to dismiss its benefits just because you didn't.

I'm still waiting on you to show me an actual study that says breast is definitively better.

Don't try to dismiss the benefits and convenience of formula feed because you didn't try it.

One of the major benefits being the father can bond with his child and also give the mother some rest by participating, (and we're not talking about pumping here, we're talking about breastfeeding).

OU812

And for the record SadB, I'm fully in favour of breastfeeding and think it should be more widespread & more widely accepted and provided for. I'm not in favour of people with an agenda shoving it in others faces to make them feel insufficient at a difficult time of their lives.

suicide_circus

Bentlee Gigantic Wasteland wrote: »

That was just one small part, the getting up every single night and morning, can't even go away for a few hours etc etc. Lots of women aren't comfortable doing it in public either so they literally are stuck in the house. As I said the majority of recent mothers I know have opted for bottle feeding as overall it just makes things a little easier for them.

Also they have been carrying a baby for 9 months they damn well deserve a few drinks.

Do irish mothers have it tougher carrying the foetus for 9 months than women elsewhere in europe? I just don't get why you would deny your baby the confirmed best neutritional source they can get. Parenting is not meant to be easy.

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

Do irish mothers have it tougher carrying the foetus for 9 months than women elsewhere in europe? I just don't get why you would deny your baby the confirmed best neutritional source they can get. Parenting is not meant to be easy.

And why not make it a little easier when there is an excellent alternative to breastfeeding?

Murrisk

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

No. 100% its nurture. Nature has not changed in 20 or 30 years so the increase in fat kids is completely due to nurture. Or rising incomes, availability of cheap calorie rich food, and a cultural adaptation to view increasing weight as normal.

Not necessarily so. We are learning more about epigenetics. Believe it or not, a child's parents or even grandparents being overweight can affect the child at the genetic level.

Murrisk

OU812 wrote: »

That's by no means definitive. I was breastfed & as stated earlier, was a fat kid & adult & only in recent years have managed to get it under control.

You are one person. That is anecdote. Did you miss where I said "less likely"? That implicitly acknowledges that it won't be the case for everyone. These are huge studies, you're taking every baby born in a particular week of the chosen calendar year. That amounts to 15,000+ babies. It is pretty darn definitive. You'd struggle to form a bigger cohort than that.

One interesting finding was that in the mid-20th century, the NHS stopped having breast-feeding nurses available at the weekends to save money. Much less women who had babies born at the weekend went on to breastfeed as opposed to those who had weekday babies. Consistently, the weekend babies had more problems than the weekday babies in a variety of areas. It's fascinating stuff.

Why is pointing out that breast-feeding is the best for your baby considered an agenda? I understand that not all women can do it but I don't understand the defensiveness. If you choose not to do it, fine, but nobody is obliged think formula is as good as breast-feeding.

Murrisk

Bentlee Gigantic Wasteland wrote: »

And why not make it a little easier when there is an excellent alternative to breastfeeding?

Because the benefits of breatfeeding are proven. Formula-feeding falls short in a number of ways. Breastmilk boosts immunity in a way that formula can't, for example.

Breast milk can be expressed and refrigerated or frozen so there is no need for the mother to be the only person getting up in the night if she is breastfeeding. And giving your baby the best start is far more important than going out regularly to get shitfaced. And even then, she can express milk to use and freeze it to use over the next few days if she is having a night out. None of the reasons you have given rule out breastfeeding.

Galwayguy35

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Of course there are jolly thin people too, but as a rule roly poly people are far more likely to have bubbly personalities, have a happy go lucky vibe to them, and just seem to be generally contented. You just dont really come across uptight, nervous, downbeat heavier people to the same degree.

Happy go lucky vibe to them that they are a heart attack waiting to happen?

Because that's what an obese person is.

SEPT 23 1989

All the boys were heavy as children in my family and the extended family and they lost the weight as teenagers

My own lad is heavy but eats minimal junk

Not concerned as he will lose it

SEPT 23 1989

All the boys were heavy as children in my family and the extended family and they lost the weight as teenagers

My own lad is heavy but eats minimal junk

Not concerned as he will lose it

SEPT 23 1989

.

Hector Savage

suicide_circus wrote: »

we've built a society free from personal responsibility. people feed their kids crap and don't make them exercise and then blame the state for their fat kids.

And on top of this, these hoverboards and other electric scooters/transport devices are becoming really popular, its only going to get worse - a lot worse.

What ever happened to kids playing real sports, cycling real bikes and having a good run around ??

DEFTLEFTHAND

Sam Kade wrote: »

I dare say what a posh kid you were, I got plenty work on the farm no time for getting fat

Used to get ribbed by my classmates for being posh Sam. :pac:

I won't deny it, I did grow up in a relatively privileged background. I'm a total degenerate though. What's the old saying, first generation creates it, second gen builds it, third gen pissing it down the drain.

AllForIt

New rules on junk food advertising just came in yesterday in the UK. Step in the right direction but only a step. I don't know if there is anything similar in place in Ireland?

http://www.aol.co.uk/living/2017/06/29/new-rules-ban-junk-food-advertising-from-childrens-online-media/

Murrisk

AllForIt wrote: »

New rules on junk food advertising just came in yesterday in the UK. Step in the right direction but only a step. I don't know if there is anything similar in place in Ireland?

http://www.aol.co.uk/living/2017/06/29/new-rules-ban-junk-food-advertising-from-childrens-online-media/

This is a good thing though I have no doubt some people will have a problem with this even.

John_Rambo

Alden Delicious Reggae wrote: »

And why not make it a little easier when there is an excellent alternative to breastfeeding?

There's no excellent alternative to breast milk.

There's no excellent alternative to exercise.

There's no excellent alternative to a healthy diet.

There's no excellent alternative to a healthy lifestyle.

I work in advertising, I work hard to convince people there are alternatives, I work hard to convince people to buy things they can't afford like PCP finance options, to eat unhealthy food, to drink copious amounts of alcohol, to become car reliant, to buy in to concepts that don't do the purchaser any favours.

My target in most campaigns the last few months are people like you.

I'm obviously doing a good job.

Thank you. I get payed, I don't buy in to it. But you do.

Paddy Cow

Murrisk wrote: »

Because the benefits of breatfeeding are proven. Formula-feeding falls short in a number of ways. Breastmilk boosts immunity in a way that formula can't, for example.

Breast milk can be expressed and refrigerated or frozen so there is no need for the mother to be the only person getting up in the night if she is breastfeeding. And giving your baby the best start is far more important than going out regularly to get shitfaced. And even then, she can express milk to use and freeze it to use over the next few days if she is having a night out. None of the reasons you have given rule out breastfeeding.

It is very hard to express breast milk and even when the mother can express enough, a lot of the time the baby is so used to the breast that they reject the bottle.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Bottle fed kids tend to sleep longer so that leads to less stressed out parents. Breast fed kids can want to be fed every hour/two hours, which leads to a very stressed out mammy.

There is no right or wrong. Parents have to do what is right for them, be it bottle or breast feeding. "Breast is best" is a slogan that is used to guilt people into feeling bad if they decide to bottle feed but I've never heard of a baby who was exclusively bottle fed being malnourished.

Breast milk may boost immunity but with modern day immunisation and antibiotics the effect is negligible. Studies have shown that babies immune systems are boosted if they are around dogs but we don't have a campaign guilting parents if they don't own one, thus depriving their kids of "the best start in life".

Whether you breast or bottle feed in the first few months of life your kid is going to get the nutrition he/she needs. It's when you start weaning them that your choices about their diet will set them up for obesity or not.

LirW

There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Bottle fed kids tend to sleep longer so that leads to less stressed out parents. Breast fed kids can want to be fed every hour/two hours, which leads to a very stressed out mammy.

Anecdotal evidence: Both of mine were breastfed, second is just 4 months and still is breastfeeding and they both sleep like rocks. I know about the tendency but it's not necessarily true.

I'm just glad that there is a good alternative for women that aren't able to breastfeed or don't want to/can do for whatever reason. I think it's an absolute shame that mothers get shamed for doing one way or another in the regards of feeding.

AllForIt

Paddy Cow wrote: »

. Studies have shown that babies immune systems are boosted if they are around dogs......

:eek: The mind boggles. How did anyone decide to do a study about this. I guess you mean actual dogs rather than the derogatory meaning of the term.

John_Rambo

AllForIt wrote: »

:eek: The mind boggles. How did anyone decide to do a study about this.

Probably because they'd children's interests at heart and decided to boggle the small minds of people that don't see the benefits of scientific studies.

AllForIt wrote: »

I guess you mean actual dogs rather than the derogatory meaning of the term.

They're talking about canines. Mankind's fascinating, amazing and oldest inter-species symbiotic relationship.

Dogs.

Turns out kids that grow up with companion or working dogs reap the benefits of a boosted immune system from contact with dogs in the early days of life. They've less allergies and the exposure leads to a tougher resistance to various illnesses.

Google it away to unboggle and expand your mind.

Paddy Cow

LirW wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence: Both of mine were breastfed, second is just 4 months and still is breastfeeding and they both sleep like rocks. I know about the tendency but it's not necessarily true.

I'm just glad that there is a good alternative for women that aren't able to breastfeed or don't want to/can do for whatever reason. I think it's an absolute shame that mothers get shamed for doing one way or another in the regards of feeding.

You're right. Not all breast feed babies have shorter sleep cycles. I'm sure there are plenty of breast feeding mothers who are jealous of you :P

I don't care whether parents breast or bottle feed as long as they take care of their children. Long term if parents make the right choices for their kids, they won't be overweight. I agree that there is so much judgement about feeding choices and it shouldn't be like that. Breast or bottle, most parents want the best for their child.

Murrisk

Paddy Cow wrote: »

It is very hard to express breast milk and even when the mother can express enough, a lot of the time the baby is so used to the breast that they reject the bottle.

Oh, I know, but it's not impossible either.

Paddy Cow wrote: »

There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Bottle fed kids tend to sleep longer so that leads to less stressed out parents. Breast fed kids can want to be fed every hour/two hours, which leads to a very stressed out mammy.

There is no right or wrong. Parents have to do what is right for them, be it bottle or breast feeding. "Breast is best" is a slogan that is used to guilt people into feeling bad if they decide to bottle feed but I've never heard of a baby who was exclusively bottle fed being malnourished.

There are more pros to breastfeeding, looking at it objectively. I don't know why that is seen as pushing an agenda.

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Breast milk may boost immunity but with modern day immunisation and antibiotics the effect is negligible.

Not might boost it, does boost it. Collostrum is packed with antibodies that the child won't have for the first few months of life. Immunisation comes later so isn't relevant to that.

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Whether you breast or bottle feed in the first few months of life your kid is going to get the nutrition he/she needs. It's when you start weaning them that your choices about their diet will set them up for obesity or not.

Well, like I said, it has been shown that babies that aren't breastfed are much more likely to have a host of problems that breastfed kids don't. And this based on a huge cohort. Look up the UK longitudinal baby studies. It isn't just about their diet once they are weaned.

I understand that some women can't breastfeed. And I wouldn't tell any woman what to do OR shame her. It's her business. But I don't believe in ignoring objective science to spare people's feelings on a forum. I believe breastfeeding is best. Why should I not say that here? I'm not against mothers occasionally using formula in addition to breast-feeding; sometimes it might be necessary eg. if the mother is sick for a few days or not producing enough milk. I'm not militant about it.

gctest50

AllForIt wrote: »

:eek: The mind boggles. How did anyone decide to do a study about this. I guess you mean actual dogs rather than the derogatory meaning of the term.

If yer going having babies it's a good idea to foster a few dogs :

https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-017-0254-x

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

There's no excellent alternative to breast milk.

There's no excellent alternative to exercise.

There's no excellent alternative to a healthy diet.

There's no excellent alternative to a healthy lifestyle.

I work in advertising, I work hard to convince people there are alternatives, I work hard to convince people to buy things they can't afford like PCP finance options, to eat unhealthy food, to drink copious amounts of alcohol, to become car reliant, to buy in to concepts that don't do the purchaser any favours.

My target in most campaigns the last few months are people like you.

I'm obviously doing a good job.

Thank you Nox001. I get payed, I don't buy in to it. But you do.

Ha ha you keep telling yourself that.

Lia_lia

Bentlee Gigantic Wasteland wrote: »

I can only think of one mother who breastfed for a long period of time of the people I know who have had babies in the last few years. The others either did it for a few days or not at all.

And out of all my friends/colleagues that have had babies in the last few years (except one that was on medication that can't be taken while breastfeeding) they have all breastfed for at least 6 months. Same with my Mother, Grandmother and all my aunts..

That being said I've no problem with formula. I wouldn't say it's an excellent alternative to breast milk though. It's a good alternative for those that can't breastfeed.

siblers

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Instead of going out and playing, they're sitting, playing x box or on their phones eating a tub of pringles. Instead of water or milk they're giving kids "juice"

That's actually nonsense, go to any gaa or soccer club during underage training and its full of kids, the estates around me are full of kids playing on the green. The vast majority of children would rather play with their friends outside than stay indoors

Burial.

Fat acceptance is sadly becoming a thing. I was linked a hilarious buzzfeed article (who else) that the average woman in America wears a size 16-18 and they wanted to "celebrate it". They then proceed to show pictures of absolute whales with folds like Michelin man and putting captions like "slay" under them.

It's sad that these people are encouraged and given positive reinforcement. It's sad that these people will become parents and will pass on the same bad habits and attitudes to their poor kids who don't know any better.

It's child abuse really. Someone said that of course their parents will love them no matter their size but I doubt that... When you permit and encourage them to get so fat as a child and endanger their life from such a young age its anything but love.

cbyrd

Murrisk wrote:

Breast milk can be expressed and refrigerated or frozen so there is no need for the mother to be the only person getting up in the night if she is breastfeeding. And giving your baby the best start is far more important than going out regularly to get ****faced. And even then, she can express milk to use and freeze it to use over the next few days if she is having a night out. None of the reasons you have given rule out breastfeeding.

Oh Lord, I've been expressing for the last 11 weeks for my baby who was 6 weeks premature. It's like having twins. Feed him then get pumping for the next round, there's not enough to store. He's ng tube fed mostly or when he's awake we try the ebm in a bottle. Can take an hour to finish. He's fed every 3 hours during the day. 4 at night on a high energy formula cos he can't take much fluids so needs the extra calories.

It's not always possible to have some in store to get someone else to do a feed. No mother should be made feel guilty for not breastfeeding. It's bloody bloody tough and tiring. Prolactin levels are higher at night so in order to maintain a good supply a mother needs to feed/express at least once, ideally twice between 12am and 6am.

I do however think the percentile charts contribute to obesity. Babies are not born with all their fat cells. They grow them in the first (i think) year. The more a baby is fed (over feeding is easy with formula) the more fat cells they develop. Which in turn leaves it easier for the child to become overweight. The scheduled formula bottle feeds don't really allow a baby to become hungry and recognize what hunger is. There's no leeway or accounting for family history smaller appetite.
I would never diss a woman who gives up breastfeeding. I'm just stubborn and won't give in until I collapse (im secretly I'm enjoying the enforced sit down pumping provides)