London Fire and Aftermath RIP

MysticMonk

Peregrinus wrote:

Reports are now coming through of people on the upper floors who followed the "stay put" advice (they had no choice, really), sealed door cracks as best they could with with wet towels and the like, and survived.

I've heard similar advice to motorists who may be trapped in a forest fire. Apparantly people have survived by staying put even though the car windows had started to melt.

kopite386

Six people have been confirmed dead as a result of the fire so far, however that will very likely rise

MysticMonk

Persephone kindness wrote:

I hope all our buildings are safe!

You're joking arent you?

Ever heard of priory hall?

Apartment blocks built during the tiger years are badly-contrapted death traps in a lot of cases.
I personally witnessed a block burn to the ground on gardiner street a few years back

Persephone kindness

MysticMonk wrote: »

You're joking arent you?

Ever heard of priory hall?

Apartment blocks built during the tiger years are badly-contrapted death traps in a lot of cases.
I personally witnessed a block burn to the ground on gardiner street a few years back

I have heard as much. Same with a lot of old Georgian buildings.

IvySlayer

Crazy! I saw this breaking news at 3am, 11am and its still burning.

Police say 6 dead and that is expected to rise

Persephone kindness

IvySlayer wrote: »

Crazy! I saw this breaking news at 3am, 11am and its still burning.

Police say 6 dead and that is expected to rise

It will take days to put out.

wench

Lucy8080 wrote: »

CeilingFly wrote: »

I take it you just woke up and have yet to have morning coffee

or maybe they have changed the floor numbering system on three already existing lower floors which weren't counted as " numbered floors"., thereby making the old first floor the new 4th floor

The floor numbering scheme can be seen in the plans submitted for the refurb. There were four floors and a basement below "floor 1" of the residential part, some of which were converted to new apartments.

https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/idoxWAM/doc/Drawing-952274.pdf?extension=.pdf&id=952274&location=VOLUME2&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=1

Persephone kindness

Saw this on twitter. Amazing.

To all emergency services-especially @LondonFire.:there under 6 minutes. Inspite of massive cuts #londonfirebrigade

MysticMonk

punisher5112 wrote:

Air sea rescue can take plenty more and can use a winch I wouldn't have meant landing as that would be no go.

There's video footage from the falklands of helicopters rescuing people from a burning ship,but they cant hover over the fire as the rising column of gas and smoke will stop the chopper from being able to hover,the fire has to be approached from the side and requires collossal skill and bravery.

xzanti

Wardling wrote: »

It's an awful taught and one I wish I'll never have to face.

I was living in a complex last year when the bottom floor apartment went up in flames. Thankfully the building was up to standards. Full fire doors, a smoke chimney and linked alarms which all kicked in immediately.

Building was safe to evacuate immediately due to the lock down of the fire doors and the chimney in place to remove the smoke. Fire trucks on scene in 6mins and took control. Thanks to the safety standards in place the fire was contained to the one apartment, which was destroyed, but nobody was hurt.

We had a 4 week old baby at the time and nothing will describe the initial fear when you smell the smoke and the alarms are blaring at 1am. I was so thankful that the building was up to scratch. Plenty of young kids and families in my block.

What's happened in London over night is a horrendous tragedy and my heart goes out to all involved and to the heroic firefighers tackling the blaze. These people are truly hero's.

My absolute worst fear thank God you all got out safe.

My heart breaks for those people in London. I can't even imagine the devastation. Life is so f*cking cruel sometimes.

Beefy78

This is just horrible.

The Guardian live feed mentions a guy who got out early from his flat in one of the lower floors but had family towards the top of the building who he was obviously massively concerned about. Supposedly his family survived after putting wet towels at their door and riding it out. Which blows my mind.

EDIT - Estate resident Ahmed Chellat, who spoke to Alice Ross earlier, has been told that his relatives are safe after they were told to stay in their 21st-floor flat with wet towels under the doors.

His sister, brother-in-law, and their two children were advised to stay in the flat and that help was on its way. He told ITV they were safe.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/14/grenfell-tower-major-fire-london-apartment-block-white-city-latimer-road?page=with:block-5940f107e4b00493c827ca1c#liveblog-navigation

Persephone kindness

Heroic residents of the Grenfell tower saved their neighbours by banging on their doors and guiding them to safety.Some put their own lives at risk to rescue others.

And who ever built them can't be bothered to install lifts ?? If peeps can risk their lives companies and councils can fork out the money

Persephone kindness

Labour proposed an amendment to the Government’s new Housing and Planning Bill – a raft of new laws aimed at reforming housing law – in January last year tried to pass through a law that would required private landlords to make their homes safe and “fit for human habitation” last year – but it was rejected by the Conservatives.

Beefy78

Persephone kindness wrote: »

And who ever built them can't be bothered to install lifts ?? If peeps can risk their lives companies and councils can fork out the money

...

The first thing anyone ever learns about health & safety is never to use lifts in a fire.

Persephone kindness

Beefy78 wrote: »

...

The first thing anyone ever learns about health & safety is never to use lifts in a fire.

Whatever they need to do.

The_Kew_Tour

Awful sad, but also not surprising with some of awful conditions these places can be

K.O.Kiki

Persephone kindness wrote: »

Whatever they need to do.

Just... fúcking NO.

Get that thought out of your head.

You do not use the elevator in case of fire risk. Ever.

take everything

God that looks absolutely horrendous.
RIP to those poor people.

ChikiChiki

Persephone kindness wrote: »

And who ever built them can't be bothered to install lifts ?? If peeps can risk their lives companies and councils can fork out the money

Lifts would be switched off at first sign of a fire

inforfun

Beefy78 wrote: »

...

The first thing anyone ever learns about health & safety is never to use lifts in a fire.

They werent working replaced before the fire.

https://twitter.com/EL4JC/status/874922082576072704/video/1

(edit: first time i saw this clip, i thought he mentioned they weren working instead of replaced.)

Calina

Persephone kindness wrote: »

Beefy78 wrote: »

...

The first thing anyone ever learns about health & safety is never to use lifts in a fire.

Whatever they need to do.

Reasons not to use lifts in an emergency: they depend on electricity. Suppose the cabling burned? Plunges or trapped in a lift shaft. What is your choice?

humberklog

Calina wrote: »

Reasons not to use lifts in an emergency: they depend on electricity. Suppose the cabling burned? Plunges or trapped in a lift shaft. What is your choice?

It's more to do with not pushing oxygen around the building.

prinzeugen

The same thing happened in France. Whole side of the building engulfed in under 3 mins.

https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=0yQLIlIetDM

Similar happened on a low rise in Glasgow and all other blocks there had the cladding removed as a result.

These tower blocks were death traps from day one. Form over function.

They say it won't collapse but if it is of large panel construction, I would not like to be near it.

ohnonotgmail

Calina wrote: »

Reasons not to use lifts in an emergency: they depend on electricity. Suppose the cabling burned? Plunges or trapped in a lift shaft. What is your choice?

if the electricity goes out or the cables are burned though the lift would just stop. it wouldnt plunge. you are then trapped in a metal box in what is basically a chimney.

Persephone kindness

take everything wrote: »

God that looks absolutely horrendous.
RIP to those poor people.

That is really all you can right now.

Widdershins

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if the electricity goes out or the cables are burned though the lift would just stop. it wouldnt plunge. you are then trapped in a metal box in what is basically a chimney.

And oven.

ohnonotgmail

Widdershins wrote: »

And oven.

the smoke would get you before the heat. hopefully.

Mint Sauce

Calina wrote: »

Reasons not to use lifts in an emergency: they depend on electricity. Suppose the cabling burned? Plunges or trapped in a lift shaft. What is your choice?

I would have thought also, if the lift was working, the opening and closing of doors, compromises the buildings chambers/compartments. If each compartment is probably maintained, ie, fire doors not proped open, close automatically, etc, each compartment should survive between 30 and 60 minutes depending on door ratings. I would imagine in buildings like this, each apartment would be a compartment, each landing would be one, and the staircases would be another.

Am gussing the opening and closing of lift doors, and if the lift was working, it's movement would help facilitate the movement of smoke.

Another reason families would be told to stay, is if compartments are working correctly, that would prevent the spread of smoke.

Pac1Man

As soon as the alarm goes off, the lifts would automatically travel to the ground floor and open their doors.

They are not ovens!

Widdershins

Pac1Man wrote: »

As soon as the alarm goes off, the lifts would automatically travel to the ground floor and open their doors.

They are not ovens!

Good. If nobody can be trapped in them then they can't be ovens.