BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

thomasj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122685062#Comment_122685062

Must have been a cache issue on my phone, it was working fine on my laptop

cantthinkofausername1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122685197#Comment_122685197

The next available number then would be 50 since 48 (the only number in the 40s that isn't used before BusConnects) is going to be used for the 122 replacement to Ashington

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122685381#Comment_122685381

They could have moved them all around by the next available number?

The 122 replacement didn’t have to be the 48.

They weren’t tied to one set of numbers for each corridor.

It was a mistake.

TheChrisD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122684931#Comment_122684931

>Plenty of people, young and old, use bus routes that serve local communities for any number of reasons, and there is no need to patronise them.

If I remember, the term came about because of the low-frequency radials that were added in after the first draft new network when many people were livid at the loss of their bus service from right outside their door, and the majority of those complainers skewed towards the older ages.

For the 19 in particular, it was purely to assuage those in Wadelai Park who weren't bothered walking to the E-spine, or Home Farm Road to either the E or A-spines, and even Balbutcher Lane south that didn't want to walk to North for the E2 (V1 routing).

>the 19 isn't going to be hourly. It's going to be every 20 minutes, and it will be more frequent at peak.

Okay that's an area I've missed. The frequency chart on the BC website is still handling the original planned V3 frequencies and hasn't updated with any new plans since then.

>expecting any major routing changes of the radials going forward such as you're suggesting isn't going to happen at this late stage

The NTA still could do with looking at the existing rollout so far and what has happened with those routes to make adjustments to the plans as they are. Like how oversubscribed the 60 was when the G-spine rolled out as the G buses were so full and unreliable. If they stick too much to the original plan, then there's no learning from the mistakes and failings of the earlier phases.

On top of that, merging more radials into the spines will help with passenger recognition. Instead of having to remember "oh it's this spine or this bus or this bus", it's just a single spine. Simplicity was one of the key intentions with the first network draft, before it had to be mucked with following a lot of NIMBY-esque complaints.

>I do find it a bit amusing that you're now observing that the 24 is not serving the city centre, given your previous complaints about more buses not serving Church Street!

I simply mentioned that it's lacking suitability as a main traffic Airport bus because it doesn't serve the main city thoroughfare. Tourists arriving in Dublin aren't going to know exactly that unless they've done research. So rather than potentially confusing them with multiple route options, just make sure that there is almost always an A-spine bus there to take them in by increasing its frequency.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122684958#Comment_122684958

For residents around here — of which I am one — it's not too much different in terms of "which bus goes where and what slowdowns are on the way". The neo-35/ex-38 is still the Auburn Avenue/Phibsborough bus that also serves Corduff. The neo-34/ex-37 is still the Carpenterstown bus that skims the outskirt of the Phoenix Park.

What I'm suggesting is that the three Blanch radials could stay numbered 37/38/39 if they were updated to remain faithful to the current routing - so that the 37 is the Carptenterstown and Blackhorse bus, the 38 is the Auburn and Corduff bus, and the 39 is the Blanch Village and Clonsilla Road bus.

The issue is that we seem to have rolled the 30s both in the old routes and the new routes somehow, and the fact that there's so few unused 30s has caused this nonsense. It would be better if the three Blanch radials were 34/35/36, the ex-120 took maybe the 48; and the ex-122 instead became an L route since let's be honest it's hardly a radial as it's so short, so infrequent, only goes to Parnell Square, and there's already precedent with the L91.

Heck, how the Ashington bus is considered a radial, and yet the L13 Ringsend-Kilternan is considered a local is silly. Both should be the opposite!

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122686076#Comment_122686076

I appreciate that you have your own opinion about the radials, but in my view the bus service is for everyone - be they able bodied, older, younger or those with disabilities and I happen to think that we can discuss the bus service without labelling routes as being for only one of those groups. The term was used frankly as a disparaging way of describing local buses by those who weren't in favour of them.

I do believe that community bus routes are still an important part of the network for many areas of the city. Yes, they are mainly lower frequency, but they continue to provide a local service for those who need it, young and old, and they often provide a sweeper service for the Spine routes which will do the heavy lifting along the Core Bus Corridors.

The 19 routing also means that existing users of the 11 or 13 who travel from say Ballymun or Glasnevin North to Lower Drumcondra can continue to do so without a walk or changing buses once or even twice.

The 74 radial is a southside example that wasn't in the original plan, but which, almost a year after being launched, is doing well in terms of user numbers. It provides a link between the southside orbitals, while also providing a local community service through Kimmage, retaining the linkage provided by the western half of the old 17, maintaining a service to/from the city centre for Whitechurch, and retaining a connection to Dundrum from the old 175 route.

I do agree totally about the need for a more frequent A Spine service at the Airport. I've been posting about that from the outset.

Regarding routings, well so far, to be honest, I've not seen any indication from the NTA that they might deviate routings substantially from that final plan published in September 2020, save for relatively minor changes or extensions, such as those published with the updated map in June 2024.

As far as the numbering goes, the L13 is presumably so numbered as it doesn't go beyond Ringsend Garage into the city centre, unlike Parnell Square, where the 48 will terminate, which definitely is in the city centre.

I rather suspect that the L91 won't happen, as the 53a which it directly replaces has never resumed since Covid.

p_haugh

In Heuston today and the bus stops out front are fairly busy for a Saturday morning. The S2, N2, 145 and the 782 all seem to depart around the same time. Will be interesting to see how that fares once the O route starts running as well!

TonyK45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122684840#Comment_122684840

Agree - also provides a link from Crumlin Village to Rathmines and Ranelagh again.

TonyK45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078059#Comment_122078059

It's not the map - it's the software you are using. Whatever PDF reader that is set as your default is the problem.

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122694272#Comment_122694272

I was quoting @loyatemu there. It loads fine for me in Adobe Acrobat.

halfpastneverr

New route 720 appearing on bustimes.

https://bustimes.org/services/720-watling-street-heuston-station

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698915#Comment_122698915

Looks like testing for the “O”.

dublinman1990

Does anyone how long this route test for the "O" will last before it will go out in service?

cgcsb

I can't see it happening before the summer. But I could be surprised.

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698919#Comment_122698919

Yes it definitely is (presumably it should be "trial").

p_haugh

On TFI Live it shows up as this (seems to only load on dates after the 14th October):

https://journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/timetables?serviceId=1%20720%20a&direction=OUTBOUND

Also sidenote, I also discovered TFI Live only lets you search for departures up to 3 months in advance.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122699215#Comment_122699215

Ah, I posted mine before refreshing the page 😅

Drummerboy2

I have used the N2 on 3 occasions. The first time was at 7.30am to Heuston Station. It was very good journey, there was less that 10 people on the bus though. The return journey the following day started off well, but unfortunately stopped half way. We waited for 10 minutes at a stop. I then heard the driver asking over his communications where the relief driver was. I got off and walked the rest of the way. Then the following day I went to the local bus stop, as the app said the app was due in 5 minutes. Unfortunately after about 10 minutes and now show, the app started showing 17 minutes until next bus, so I gave up and used alternative means. Very disappointing. I know it may be teething problems but if they want to get people using the serevice, things need to improve. So far, the usage seems to be minimal.

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122701456#Comment_122701456

I haven't used the N2 since the first day but I've been monitoring it on bustimes.org. It generally seems fairly reliable at off peak times but it's very slow at peak times. The Griffith Avenue/Ballymun Road junctions is a major problem. The Swords Road junction doesn't seem to be as much of a problem as I thought it would be.

When going to/from work I have a 20 minute walk to the bus stop. The N2 takes a very similar route but it takes 15 minutes at peak times.

There's been one full and three partial cancelled buses so far today. One and four respectively for yesterday. That's not great for a not very frequent service. It's probably not helped by the unrealistic timetable. Admittedly, it's not just a GAI issue as some DB routes such as the 83 and 13 are appalling lately for cancellations.

bk

I've seen pretty good numbers of people waiting at N2 stops for a new service. And I've seen it a couple of times between 8:45 to 9 where it looked like someone was sitting at every seat row upstairs.

I've taken it twice off peak myself and each time there was about a dozen people on board. Again very friendly drivers.

I think usage seems decent for such a new service. It takes time for people to realise a new route is in place and change their journey plans around it.

dublinman1990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122701655#Comment_122701655

Do you think the cancellations will be eased on the 13 when it goes to Donnybrook Garage from November?

I have no idea how the drivers are dealing with the cancellations in that depot. Donnybrook actually had the 13 route in the past. Was it a reliable route when it was in Donnybrook during the CIE era?

Also why is there a huge amount of cancellations on the 13 and 83?

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702288#Comment_122702288

The service may become more reliable, tho Donnybrook don't seem to be the right garage to serve it, given how far the Grange Castle terminus is from that garage. Would've thought Conyngham or Broadstone would get that route.

I assume that a reason for the cancellations could be how far the termini are for both the 13 and 83 from Harristown, and how congested the M50 can get at peak

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702288#Comment_122702288

I've no idea why the 13 and 83 are so bad. The 13 is a very long route which doesn't help. The 83 is prone to delays but it doesn't fully explain the number of cancellations. Even at off peak times there are lots of cancellations. The 9 is a fairly similar route and has far less cancellations.

There was one point this evening when there were three cancelled northbound 83s in a row so there were no 83s for an hour.

CatInABox

I saw GoAhead out training on the 130 route, or whatever the replacement route is called.

TheChrisD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702809#Comment_122702809

The 130 is remaining as-is, just renumbered to the 10.

A little surprised it's changing providers though.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702809#Comment_122702809

Are you sure it wasn't just Go-Ahead learner bus?

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702898#Comment_122702898

Hmmm, entirely possible, considering how tightly he took that turn. An actual 130 had to reverse to allow him around the corner.

thomasj

It could've been en route to start route training on the N2?

mrsdewinter

I caught the N2 at Heuston this evening, off peak. Great service, though I was getting off well shy of Swords Road, etc. Delighted to see it and I look forward to using it to access W Dublin without having to travel into town.

dublinman1990

The Planning & Development Bill has been passed in the Dáil tonight.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/1009/1474329-planning-legislation/

This probably makes decisions in the planning process for BusConnects and other PT projects go a lot easier for the CBCs once they get sent into planning & go into construction.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122702900#Comment_122702900

Route training is normally done on a service bus.