BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Peregrine

Everyone on this thread should be making a submission.

Joker2019

p_haugh wrote: »

Found another tweet about this, the existing RTPI screen is in fact still there:

https://twitter.com/e_slat/status/1203455967960145920

Maybe in the long run these could be used in a larger form to display the actual timetable and scheduled departures alongside RTPI and it could have other use to display things like passenger information and things like spider maps. It would make the process of updating stop information a lot quicker, cheaper, more accurate and less labour intensive than replacing paper timetables.

Look at the way many of the stops served by GAI are displaying inaccurate out of date information.

AlmightyCushion

Peregrine wrote: »

Everyone on this thread should be making a submission.

At the very least any for the plan should be complaining about how long it is going to take and the lack of bus lane enforcement. If enough people say it they might aim to get it done sooner and might even look at enforcing bus lanes for once.

sharper

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

At the very least any for the plan should be complaining about how long it is going to take and the lack of bus lane enforcement. If enough people say it they might aim to get it done sooner and might even look at enforcing bus lanes for once.

There's no point complaining to the NTA about bus lane enforcement, they wanted ANPR based enforcement as part of bus connects. The problem is the minister for transport said he won't be doing it for reasons known only to him.

We would need some sort of separate petition or submission going to the minister, getting him to explain himself would be something at least.

L1011

Ross will be gone (likely as a TD too) by May, probably earlier as I suspect FF will collapse the government in January when the HSE trolley figures start mounting as usual. Think it's time to just ignore him for a few weeks because we know he won't do anything useful

LeinsterDub

Sam Russell wrote: »

Are these new displays cheaper to deploy?

Are they vandal proof?

No sure it's already in the Liffey! Jesus why does a comment like this get posted every times we get something new.

magicbastarder

L1011 wrote: »

Ross will be gone (likely as a TD too) by May

have there been any polls on this?
i recently read an opinion piece that ross has highlighted how a weak minister exposes how change resistant the relevant department can be. it shouldn't need a strong minister for Transport to actually show some initiative. even if the minister was then to claim their work as his own.

Evil_g

magicbastarder wrote: »

have there been any polls on this?
i recently read an opinion piece that ross has highlighted how a weak minister exposes how change resistant the relevant department can be. it shouldn't need a strong minister for Transport to actually show some initiative. even if the minister was then to claim their work as his own.

It absolutely needs a strong Minister to (a) first of all bring proposals for change to cabinet table and receive funding, and (b) to lead the public response to the inevitable opposition to any proposals for change.

Ross has been absolutely abysmal at both of these central elements of his role. I'm finding it hard to think of a worse cabinet minister. (Some made terrible decisions, but at least they were effective in making these decisions).

The only difference between him and the Healy Rae's is his plummy accent. (So it's arguable that he's marginally worse than them).

I wouldn't be confident of him losing his seat, but hopefully the next government won't need to rely on a charlatan like him.

L1011

magicbastarder wrote: »

have there been any polls on this?

Local elections and four by-elections with a bonfire of Independents (and that's even with Paul Gogarty's significant figure in DMW) compared to the previous time - people are fed up with Independents doing nothing as they basically all do.

He's also lost most (all?) of his pet Councillors which will damage him as nothing will be getting done on the ground and shows the momentum has moved away from him; and a block of the rural bit of the constituency that could be swung in by his Stepaside Garda Station obsession has been moved to Dun Laoghaire.

There'll probably be a ninth seat for DLR in the next revision as both constituencies are above the recommended headcount, but that'll be 2023 or so and I doubt he'd run again even if there was an election nearly immediately.

Dyr

Evil_g wrote: »

It absolutely needs a strong Minister to (a) first of all bring proposals for change to cabinet table and receive funding, and (b) to lead the public response to the inevitable opposition to any proposals for change.

You realise that half a dozen posters on boards are not the public, yeah?

Evil_g

Bambi wrote: »

You realise that half a dozen posters on boards are not the public, yeah?

I'm not sure what you think I said.

SPDUB

Sam Russell wrote: »

Are these new displays cheaper to deploy?

Are they vandal proof?

Given that I've seen the armoured bus shelters damaged nothing is vandal proof to the dedicated vandal .

Victor

Do people want to post their submissions?

L1011

Mine was that the North Kildare plans are overly reliant on DART Expansion and evening frequency is insufficient without it. Otherwise supportive

loyatemu

I suggested better connectivity from north Wicklow to the Luas and by extension Sandyford, but I made this submission the first time around (as did most of the local pols) and it was ignored. They're proposing extending the Green Line to Bray, put a bus on for the time being to build demand...

Other than that, minor observations about the Greystones area routes and a general message of support for the overall process.

CatInABox

I asked if something more could be done with the H route, as I think it's a missed opportunity. Also told them that I was supportive over all, and that even with the H route thing, I was happy enough with it.

Evil_g

The problem is that the original plan was largely excellent, and would have benefited a huge number of commuters.

As I've mentioned up the thread, in my case, the F3 would have served the entirety of Lorcan O'Toole Park and Stannaway road, and headed directly into town connecting with all orbitals.

Because of a handful of my neighbours claiming that a bus to Rathmines is vital to them, the F3 is now routed down Kimmage, and has been replaced by a 15 which travels half way around the world to get to town.

This new 15 bus operates at a lower frequency than the existing 83.

This outcome could only have been avoided if the thousands of people who would have benefited from the original F3 route had mobilised in support of it, to show that they outnumber the cranks.

But of course that was never going to happen, so in this respect the consulting process was set up to fail.

I've made a submission proposing that they revert to the original plan, but I expect it to be ignored, because I introduce myself as a supporter of Bus Connects, rather than a self anointed spokesperson for the most vulnerable in society.

You only have to compare the map of the second proposal with the first to see that my experience is being duplicated all over town.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think the project is already a shambles and is only going to get worse.

TheChrisD

Victor wrote: »

Do people want to post their submissions?

Consider making Ongar Village the B1 & B2 terminus

There is zero chance you would fit buses in through Ongar village.

Could Dunboyne be provided with a direct city service by merging route 264 with either routes 34 and 35 or B4?

Please no merging of the Dunboyne-Blanch route. Plus, direct routes from Dunboyne are already long enough as it is, and were annoyingly long when the 70 used to go via Blanch village. A merge with 34/35 with even more detours through Carpenterstown or Corduff would be worse.

AlekSmart

Evil_g wrote: »

The problem is that the original plan was largely excellent, and would have benefited a huge number of commuters.

As I've mentioned up the thread, in my case, the F3 would have served the entirety of Lorcan O'Toole Park and Stannaway road, and headed directly into town connecting with all orbitals.

Because of a handful of my neighbours claiming that a bus to Rathmines is vital to them, the F3 is now routed down Kimmage, and has been replaced by a 15 which travels half way around the world to get to Kimmage.

This new 15 bus operates at a lower frequency than the existing 83.

This outcome could only have been avoided if the thousands of people who would have benefited from the original F3 route had mobilised in support of it, to show that they outnumber the cranks.

But of course that was never going to happen, so in this respect the consulting process was set up to fail.

I've made a submission proposing that they revert to the original plan, but I expect it to be ignored, because I introduce myself as a supporter of Bus Connects, rather than a self anointed spokesperson for the most vulnerable in society.

You only have to compare the map of the second proposal with the first to see that my experience is being duplicated all over town.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think the project is already a shambles and is only going to get worse.

Well said !

The original Jarret Walker Busconnects report remains probably the ONLY meaningful comprehensive report on Dublins Bus Service ever compiled.

For the first time,the task was allocated to somebody who specialized in Bus Based Public Transport,rather than yet another generic "Consultancy" in the mould of McKinsey,Deloitte,Indecon etc etc etc.

Walker's affinity for Bus Services shone through,and made it immediately apparent that Busconnects 1 was a Game Changer like never before encountered in Dublin terms.

Walkers thinking was Farsighted,Clear and Simple in the vast majority of the original proposals,and that perhaps ensured it's downfall.

Having commissioned the Report from,possibly the first actually functional "Expert",we now see the Authority deferring to the vague,rambling,sectional and illogical views of some 20,000 experts of varying hues,in yet another example of an "Irish Solution to an Irish Problem" which will do little to actually solve any of the issues which Walkers original plan at least faced up to.

It really is a sad reflection on what is supposedly an "Authority",that it ran away and hid,from pursuing and supporting the Clarity of Purpose which Walker displayed in Dublin 2040-Busconnects 1.

Is it a surprise ?

Nah,it's what we do in Ireland...often for no other reason than sheer Spite....

Zebra3

You can see how knowledgeable JW is on public transport issues on Twitter.

But you can't beat know-nothing councillors chasing the votes of a couple of coffin dodgers.

Qrt

My submission was mostly “please increase the proposed frequency” and asking for the proposed 240 to be...reproposed.

I live beside the red line so the buses to town don’t really bother me too much.!

Spanish Eyes

Buses at your doorstep is or should be a long gone concept now.

Walk five minutes and get there far quicker in the long run.

Should be on big spines with priority and QUICK. That is what everyone commuting wants surely?

And I do realise that is the thinking behind this.

AlekSmart

Qrt wrote: »

My submission was mostly “please increase the proposed frequency” and asking for the proposed 240 to be...reproposed.

I live beside the red line so the buses to town don’t really bother me too much.!

As do I,however I notice a worrying increase of Luas downtime,due to "technical issues"
The new Maintenance Contract may have something to do with it,but it sure needs to be watched ?

Qrt

AlekSmart wrote: »

As do I,however I notice a worrying increase of Luas downtime,due to "technical issues"
The new Maintenance Contract may have something to do with it,but it sure needs to be watched ?

Yeah definitely, needs an eye.

thomasj

Its baffling that they still think peak hours is 7-8 and 4-5.

Daith

thomasj wrote: »

Its baffling that they still think peak hours is 7-8 and 4-5.

What really?

thomasj

Daith wrote: »

What really?

Well if you look at the peak services document , the majority of services will run 7-8 and 4-5 some 4-6

salmocab

thomasj wrote: »

Well if you look at the peak services document , the majority of services will run 7-8 and 4-5 some 4-6

Is that because from 7 they have all their busses on the road but by 8 they’ve slowed down due to traffic so deliver less runs?

Victor

thomasj wrote: »

Its baffling that they still think peak hours is 7-8 and 4-5.

That's when they leave their terminus. Many of those buses will still be en-route at 8:45.

TheChrisD wrote: »

There is zero chance you would fit buses in through Ongar village.

I don't mean the frozen food aisle in Dunnes, there is a big roundabout outside they could use.

Last Stop

Zebra3 wrote: »

You can see how knowledgeable JW is on public transport issues on Twitter.

But you can't beat know-nothing councillors chasing the votes of a couple of coffin dodgers.

He is also (naturally) very bias to the success stories and tries to distance himself from projects when they don’t go to plan like in Wellington.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/lessons-from-down-under-how-not-to-do-busconnects-1.3661640

From his tweet after the last iteration it appears he has done the same in Dublin.

A lot of the proposals for Dublin make sense but it falls away on the details.
- It’s clear that he lacks the local knowledge of infrastructural deficiencies etc. and to be fair, he should have had better back up from the local consultants in both the NTA and Aecom
- He is also too rigid in his use of the spine and local route model. There are several instances where it would make far more sense to combine local routes run them to the city centre instead of getting people to interchange. I think this is because he is so used to working on cities which are laid out in a grid system where it probably does make sense. In a more complex city like Dublin this type of model needs more adaptation which I don’t think he has managed to do.

If you look at what he did for the first consultation, it was clear that it was too engineering focused and not easily understandable. Unfortunately, the second consultation has gone the opposite way and offers far less detail and comparing the two is extremely difficult. Again it’s probably an NTA problem but they really should have hired both a comms team and a good graphic designer from they very start. Kevin Carter did good work after the horse had bolted.

To be fair though, for the price he cost it was great value for money even just as a base which can be tweaked and adapted