BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

MJohnston

Any reason why RTPI can't show street names instead of (or as well as) ETAs?

Dyr

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Ah that's one.

We need to bed in and get used to nice things don't ya know.

As an aside, did any of the original RTPI screens ever get properly vandalised like that? I don't recall any reports from their early days.

Never saw it, but then there was never any logic to the RTPI rollout, busy stops ignored and other stops that were only used by Aul Mary to go up the Bingo on a wednesday with an RTPI up on it straight away

BonnieSituation

loyatemu wrote: »

harder to smash something that's above head height.

That is never a barrier to the Dublin scrote

loyatemu

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That is never a barrier to the Dublin scrote

scrotes are generally lazy. How many RTPI displays have you seen smashed?

BonnieSituation

loyatemu wrote: »

scrotes are generally lazy. How many RTPI displays have you seen smashed?

About 7. I make sure they're at busy stops though to maximise the inconvenience.

machaseh

Vandalism is an issue in every single country, not just in Ireland. These displays need to be made sturdy and difficult to reach to prevent this.

CatInABox

Buses bought.

Alexander Dennis got the contract, 100 Enviro400Er Battery/Diesel buses in the first tranche, up to the full 600. Glad that they went with an established bus already, no point trialing out new tech on our streets, we can't afford for anything to go wrong.

See here.

I think I've put this in every relevant thread now

lawred2

450k per bus... is that a market rate or is it a NCH style deal for the Irish?

CatInABox

lawred2 wrote: »

450k per bus... is that a market rate or is it a NCH style deal for the Irish?

It's an extended range hybrid bus, so I'd say the price is about right. I'm no expert on bus prices though, so am open to correction.

Here's a tweet with more info and photos of the model in question. They're answering questions on the twitter thread as well.

https://twitter.com/ADLbus/status/1222850057139118081

devnull

A new thread about the bus order has been created here:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058050021

magicbastarder

probably as good a place as any for this; a podcast about buses; it's a conversation with a chap who has written a book about bus transport, mainly from an american perspective:

https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/missing-the-bus/

Qrt

Well that’s Ross gone. Maybe we will get ANPR cameras after all.

cherryghost

Qrt wrote: »

Well that’s Ross gone. Maybe we will get ANPR cameras after all.

Not if FF enter gov. They want to tear down Busconnects and start again.

devnull

cherryghost wrote: »

Not if FF enter gov. They want to tear down Busconnects and start again.

Sinn Fein will probably be more focused on protecting the state operators and unions as well rather than the overall service. Not sure I would trust them to put the overall system ahead of Ideaology.

FF and SF would be worst. But Martin said that won't happen and he has integrity and morals although already the climb back has started and he will happily lose them for power. Typical FF really. Haven't changed at all. Party before principles

Always.

cherryghost

So you're saying we're in a lose-lose situation?

devnull

cherryghost wrote: »

So you're saying we're in a lose-lose situation?

Some outcomes result in losing more than others! As it looks now I would prefer both the main parties in together. Have reservations about that too but best of bad choice.

machaseh

devnull wrote: »

Some outcomes result in losing more than others! As it looks now I would prefer both the main parties in together. Have reservations about that too but best of bad choice.

Yeah get FF/FG back into government so that all the homeless people stay on the streets, we keep paying increasing rental prices for a kip and no new affordable or council housing gets built :rolleyes:

EDIT Oh sorry I thought this was one of the elections threads, my bad.

In any case even for busconnects we'd want to have a left leaning government for it to ever happen.

tom1ie

machaseh wrote: »

Yeah get FF/FG back into government so that all the homeless people stay on the streets, we keep paying increasing rental prices for a kip and no new affordable or council housing gets built :rolleyes:

EDIT Oh sorry I thought this was one of the elections threads, my bad.

In any case even for busconnects we'd want to have a left leaning government for it to ever happen.

Left or right, it doesn’t matter if we continue with overlong consultation phases and giving in to nimbys.

devnull

machaseh wrote: »

In any case even for busconnects we'd want to have a left leaning government for it to ever happen.

Remind me how BusConnects came about, can't remember it being a left leaning government?

The trouble with much of the left policies in Ireland is most of them involve throwing money, money and more money and blank cheque after blank cheque at things rather than actually sorting out the nuts and the bots of the problems. We've seen before that such approach only works for so long and does not fix anything long term.

If they had coherent plans other than throwing more money at things then I would be more likely to vote for them but anyone who has come to my door in the last few weeks has simply just been talking about increasing funding rather then fixing some of the underlying problems. There was very little substance and a lot of rhetoric and not much else.

The people who came to my and some of my friends and colleagues doors in this election from the left when asked about transport kept going on about more money for Irish Rail, more money for Dublin Bus, protecting the state companies, protecting terms and conditions of workers and union rights and making claims that are not backed up by the available facts.

Ask them about cycling infrastructure DART expansion, Metro, BusConnects and so on and they have no idea what they are talking about other than some soundbites about more money, stopping privatisation, increasing funding to state companies, free public transport and wanting to invest in the public transport system. A lot of them appear to care more about ideology than actually fixing the core problems.

Zebra3

devnull wrote: »

Remind me how BusConnects came about, can't remember it being a left leaning government?

The trouble with much of the left policies in Ireland is most of them involve throwing money, money and more money and blank cheque after blank cheque at things rather than actually sorting out the nuts and the bots of the problems. We've seen before that such approach only works for so long and does not fix anything long term.

The Bertie Ahern Approach.

MJohnston

devnull wrote: »

Remind me how BusConnects came about, can't remember it being a left leaning government?

The trouble with much of the left policies in Ireland is most of them involve throwing money, money and more money and blank cheque after blank cheque at things rather than actually sorting out the nuts and the bots of the problems. We've seen before that such approach only works for so long and does not fix anything long term.

If they had coherent plans other than throwing more money at things then I would be more likely to vote for them but anyone who has come to my door in the last few weeks has simply just been talking about increasing funding rather then fixing some of the underlying problems. There was very little substance and a lot of rhetoric and not much else.

The people who came to my and some of my friends and colleagues doors in this election from the left when asked about transport kept going on about more money for Irish Rail, more money for Dublin Bus, protecting the state companies, protecting terms and conditions of workers and union rights and making claims that are not backed up by the available facts.

Ask them about cycling infrastructure DART expansion, Metro, BusConnects and so on and they have no idea what they are talking about other than some soundbites about more money, stopping privatisation, increasing funding to state companies, free public transport and wanting to invest in the public transport system. A lot of them appear to care more about ideology than actually fixing the core problems.

That’s a pretty broad assertion that I think falls down in a number of ways:
1) There are numerous problems within transport infrastructure that *do* need more money thrown at them. DART is severely under-invested, DART Underground has been mothballed forever due to financial overprudence, and the reason we have taken so long on Metrolink is due to the right wing parties’ reluctance to spend capital on public projects. Even something as simple as launching a flat fare across all Dublin transport will require money.
2) Disagree very much that the left wing parties are just throwing out soundbites. Maybe true for SF but they won’t be able to govern alone. The party I’m a member of, the Social Democrats, has very clear and non-waffley objectives for all those things in their manifestos, especially their visions for cycling and transport. Worth noting that none of the centre-right-wing parties had anything more substantial than soundbites either.
3) Neither of the centre-right pair can claim anything approaching competence in terms of public transport policy. They’re both hesitant, resistant, and uninformed. Fine Gael threw the entire Transport portfolio down the toilet by giving it to Shane Ross, and FF have frequently watered projects down in the past (plus just honestly, I have zero faith in FF to stand for anything other than their own backs).

Podge_irl

machaseh wrote: »

In any case even for busconnects we'd want to have a left leaning government for it to ever happen.

Including the left leaning politicians who want to cancel metro link cause it involves removing a swimming pool while a station is built?

Busconnects is desperately needed but also by far the easiest thing to cancel as it is not viewed as a big infrastructure development.

devnull

MJohnston wrote: »

1) There are numerous problems within transport infrastructure that *do* need more money thrown at them. DART is severely under-invested, DART Underground has been mothballed forever due to financial overprudence, and the reason we have taken so long on Metrolink is due to the right wing parties’ reluctance to spend capital on public projects. Even something as simple as launching a flat fare across all Dublin transport will require money.

Yes - but just throwing money at things on it's own is not going to solve all of our worries. There needs to be proper plans of how it is going to be spent and make sure that it is spent on the right things and that the money is not just wasted and unfortunately having worked in the public sector I can tell you that there are plenty of people who will find ways to spend money on things that it doesn't need to be spended on, because it's easier to just spend more than change something that requires a bit more effort.

You are right that some things do need more money and some of the examples that you give without a doubt are very valid, but if you start handing out money willy nilly and a blank cheque over to people without requiring them to be accountable and actually spending it wisely then you're going to have a problem further down the line. It's all too easy to throw money at a problem to avoid having to carry out reforms and restructures and changes to make existing systems work better.

Disagree very much that the left wing parties are just throwing out soundbites. Maybe true for SF but they won’t be able to govern alone. The party I’m a member of, the Social Democrats, has very clear and non-waffley objectives for all those things in their manifestos, especially their visions for cycling and transport. Worth noting that none of the centre-right-wing parties had anything more substantial than soundbites either.

I can only tell you what my experiences are, but for what it's worth your party did get a vote from me as I certainly wouldn't put them in the same bracket as People Before Profit or Sinn Fein, neither of which got a vote from me. The Social Democrats come across as more realistic and down to earth and better visions, I still have some issues with them, but they were worth a vote.

Neither of the centre-right pair can claim anything approaching competence in terms of public transport policy. They’re both hesitant, resistant, and uninformed. Fine Gael threw the entire Transport portfolio down the toilet by giving it to Shane Ross, and FF have frequently watered projects down in the past (plus just honestly, I have zero faith in FF to stand for anything other than their own backs).

I'm not a fan of Shane Ross and never have been but I agreed with him on some things but it was quite rare! Have to admit he was a terrible minster for transport though and I'm glad that he's lost his seat. I can understand why FG gave him the brief in the circumstances but still he was bad at it. Not giving the NTA powers for ANPR etc was really frustrating for me.

I have no faith in FF whatsoever either, just seeing their leader try and absolve himself for what he was part of before and saying he's a man of principle, morals and integrity and will never go in power with SF and then back down on it yesterday tells you all you need to know and they are just too populist for me and have been for some time.

FG in the end were the ones who agreed to fund BusConnects though, I was merely pointing out before that it doesn't make sense that FG would be a party who would not support a system that they were the ones who funded it in the first place. I have reservations about FG in several areas too and you are right in saying that there is too much dithering.

MJohnston

I think “FG agreed to fund BusConnects” basically says what I really want to get across though - they have to be almost begged or forced into it.

With a grand-left-coalition possible, we may actually have parties willing to *advocate* for public transport funding. My primary hope in a coalition is probably Shortall as Health Minister, but I’d also take one of the SDs getting Transport. Hopefully we do away with this muck of bundling it with Sport and Tourism.

Zebra3

Podge_irl wrote: »

Including the left leaning politicians who want to cancel metro link cause it involves removing a swimming pool while a station is built?

Busconnects is desperately needed but also by far the easiest thing to cancel as it is not viewed as a big infrastructure development.

I think it'll be the hardest to cancel as the wins are across a far wider area than any metro or rail line and doesn't involve huge construction work.

jlang

Zebra3 wrote: »

I think it'll be the hardest to cancel as the wins are across a far wider area than any metro or rail line and doesn't involve huge construction work.

But the infrastructure aspects are the easiest to cancel as every "local" politician (and they're all local regardless of where the sit) can find something to object about in it. They need to show how they saved their "trees|parking|community". The benefits are mostly to be felt well away from the areas where the significant changes and disruption are to take place. Every un-implemented bus priority measure add up over a route to make the entire effort futile unless there is a clear focus and leadership in place to complete the job.

dublinman1990

EcoEye on RTÉ One will have an entire programme about BusConnects next Tuesday at 7pm.

Duncan Stewart examines the controversial Bus Connects project, designed to promote investment in new quality bus corridors, reducing journey times and increasing reliability.

Evil_g

"The controversial Bus Connects project"

Because that's it's official name now.

I foresee a hatchet job.

Spanish Eyes

jcullen222 wrote: »

The other issue was said to be the gardens - the residents of the houses that would have their gardens removed would be compensated wouldn’t they?

Never buy a house that has a bus route on your road. Might be useful in the short term but we can see that it is problematic now.

endacl

jcullen222 wrote: »

NIMBYism.

NIMFY, surely?