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Body of Alan Hawe to be exhumed

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    #752
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    There is a time and place for irony and sarcasm . And even to mention her name like that poster did ( albeit in cloaked in irony ) was wrong in my opinion

    He was trying to demonstrate how easy it is to twist things, speculate and spread rumours when in fact we haven't a clue what actually went on behind the scenes.


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    #753
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I think he was evil not so much because of the murders but the manner of the murders. He butchered them. His lovely wife had a hatchet in her head. His beautiful boys had their throats slit. I just cannot get that out of head that he deliberately stabbed them through the windpipe to prevent them calling for help, that he made sure he took out the strongest first, that he made sure his family were the ones to benefit financially. He even referenced murdering them in his suicide note, there was no sense of taking them to a better place or anything like that. What he did was pure savagery, he deserves to rot.
    I've been saying that for ages here too.
    The mental health excuse is just a mask to hide an evil and vile murdering thug who had no care or empathy for his wife and children.


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    #754
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Jase Late Clergywoman wrote: »
    He's not the one reading the nasty comments. And what you post on line and how it affects innocent people caught up in a tragedy is your responsibility.
    Jase Late Clergywoman wrote: »
    No it wouldn't. You just don't have to say it at all on a public forum out of consideration for his traumatised parents. You can think it, but publicly proclaiming it is totally different.
    Do you honestly think his parents are going to be reading this thread?


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    #755
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,128 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Jase Late Clergywoman wrote: »
    He was trying to demonstrate how easy it is to twist things, speculate and spread rumours when in fact we haven't a clue what actually went on behind the scenes.

    I am well aware what he was " trying " to do . I still find it distasteful and unnecessary


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    #756
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    Do you honestly think his parents are going to be reading this thread?

    Do you honestly think that when things are said and repeated on threads on internet forums they don't gather steam, whip up hysteria, get quoted, tweeted etc?


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    #757
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I am well aware what he was " trying " to do . I still find it distasteful and unnecessary

    Well I find a lot of what you and other posters are saying to be distasteful and unnecessary also.


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    #758
    dok_golf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭dok_golf


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    I am well aware what he was " trying " to do . I still find it distasteful and unnecessary

    Now you know how people with mental issues feel.


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    #759
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    LCD wrote: »
    Not sure if can say this. I`ve family living in the area.
    Rumors that he had, & was being investigated again, in relation to long standing unsolved crimes (not relating to his family or career). Hence the fall from grace.
    Again these are just rumors I heard 2nd hand.
    I heard these too.


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    #760
    IITYWYBMAD
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭IITYWYBMAD


    Riskymove wrote: »
    well exaclty

    I am sure there are many who find the idea that a sane, rational person could do this to their family simply uncomprehensible .....with the the idea that he was simply "evil"

    I mean if he was just simply evil how did he manage to get a family in the first place or wait until this point to do what he did. If he is "evil" there must be many other evil acts he carried out right?

    If he in fact had mental health issues and a pyscotic episode this at least gives some rationale...it doesnt mean he should automatically be excused or forgiven

    That does not tell the full story. Typically, people are not defined by a single trait. He could be charming and evil. Manipulative, charming and evil. Twisted, charming and evil.

    It's over simplistic to try and label him as this. More-so, his actions are more easily defined.


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    #761
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Jase Late Clergywoman wrote: »
    Do you honestly think that when things are said and repeated on threads on internet forums they don't gather steam, whip up hysteria, get quoted, tweeted etc?
    You are trying to stop people from voicing their opinions on a forum by trying to emotionally blackmail them. The only person responsible for this whole sorry mess is Alan Hawe. What he did is going to be far more traumatising to his parents than anything people say on here, on twitter or anywhere on the internet.

    I do not for a second think his parents are googling his name and reading comments in any form on the internet. This was a shocking case and of course people are going to talk about it. Alan was their son and while they may still love him, they will have had their own nasty thoughts about him. They're not going to let us in on them though. Do you think his parents don't know that many people have a low opinion of Alan? What he did was horrific. People will talk about it for a long time to come.


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    #762
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,403 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    dok_golf wrote: »
    Now you know how people with mental issues feel.

    Good that you speak for ALL people who have had mental health issues so factually. This has nothing to do with mental health.


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    #763
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    You are trying to stop people from voicing their opinions on a forum by trying to emotionally blackmail them. The only person responsible for this whole sorry mess is Alan Hawe. What he did is going to be far more traumatising to his parents than anything people say on here, on twitter or anywhere on the internet.

    I do not for a second think his parents are googling his name and reading comments in any form on the internet. This was a shocking case and of course people are going to talk about it. Alan was their son and while they may still love him, they will have had their own nasty thoughts about him. They're not going to let us in on them though. Do you think his parents don't know that many people have a low opinion of Alan? What he did was horrific. People will talk about it for a long time to come.

    You can excuse it any way you like, speculating on a public forum, spreading rumours, vilifying people and causing huge anguish to the remaining family is reprehensible behaviour.


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    #764
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    Jase Late Clergywoman wrote: »
    You can excuse it any way you like, speculating on a public forum, spreading rumours, vilifying people and causing huge anguish to the remaining family is reprehensible behaviour.

    It's but a drop in the bucket compared to mass murder though.


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    #765
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,403 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Jase Late Clergywoman wrote: »
    He was trying to demonstrate how easy it is to twist things, speculate and spread rumours when in fact we haven't a clue what actually went on behind the scenes.

    We know that he slaughtered them methodically. I can understand why some people like to pretend he didnt but facts are there.


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    #766
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    It's but a drop in the bucket compared to mass murder though.

    Your point being?


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    #767
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,403 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Jase Late Clergywoman wrote: »
    You can excuse it any way you like, speculating on a public forum, spreading rumours, vilifying people and causing huge anguish to the remaining family is reprehensible behaviour.

    And you see nothing wrong with liking a post speculating Clodagh (who suffered hatchet and knife wounds) was his abuser just for the lols. Fair play to you.


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    #768
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,128 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    dok_golf wrote: »
    Now you know how people with mental issues feel.

    No I don't , neither do you . You only know how you feel and are not a spokesperson for how anyone else feels . And I still stand by my opinion that mentioning Clodagh the way you did was distastful and should never have been said . Regardless of an effort at irony


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    #769
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    pjohnson wrote: »
    And you see nothing wrong with liking a post speculating Clodagh (who suffered hatchet and knife wounds) was his abuser just for the lols. Fair play to you.

    He wasn't doing it for lols. But this has already been explained.


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    #770
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,403 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Jase Late Clergywoman wrote: »
    He wasn't doing it for lols. But this has already been explained.

    Not really. The "explanation" revolved around us supposedly not knowing what happened. When we do. But you really really like that post so lets ignore facts.


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    #771
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Not really. The "explanation" revolved around us supposedly not knowing what happened. When we do. But you really really like that post so lets ignore facts.

    No you don't know the full story. You know the culmination of it, but not all of the factors that led up to it. Many of the 'facts' you're talking about are speculation, rumour and people jumping to conclusions.

    Oh and if you're going to bang on about me 'liking' the post, perhaps you'd quote the post in full and not just one selected line out of context.


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    #772
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,403 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Jase Late Clergywoman wrote: »
    No you don't know the full story. You know the culmination of it, but not all of the factors that led up to it. Many of the 'facts' you're talking about are speculation, rumour and people jumping to conclusions.

    The fact I refer to are not speculation or rumour unless you think the Coroner is incompetent. Is that what you think?


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    #773
    dok_golf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭dok_golf


    pjohnson wrote: »
    And you see nothing wrong with liking a post speculating Clodagh (who suffered hatchet and knife wounds) was his abuser just for the lols. Fair play to you.

    What's the difference between speculating that Hawe was evil and totally sane and what I said. I find it offensive that people so readily jump to conclusions without knowing the full facts. And to those who suggest I am a spokesperson for all with mental issues, I think I said "from my point of view" ( and yes, I'm sure some will trawl back to find the posts where I didn't)


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    #774
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,128 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    dok_golf wrote: »
    What's the difference between speculating that Hawe was evil and totally sane and what I said. I find it offensive that people so readily jump to conclusions without knowing the full facts. And to those who suggest I am a spokesperson for all with mental issues, I think I said "from my point of view" ( and yes, I'm sure some will trawl back to find the posts where I didn't)
    If you don't know that speculating about a woman who was brutally slaughtered if even in irony was wrong then no amount of explaining will enlighten you . So I am out of this conversation .


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    #775
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    dok_golf wrote: »
    What's the difference between speculating that Hawe was evil and totally sane and what I said. I find it offensive that people so readily jump to conclusions without knowing the full facts. And to those who suggest I am a spokesperson for all with mental issues, I think I said "from my point of view" ( and yes, I'm sure some will trawl back to find the posts where I didn't)

    Genuine question - do you really not understand what was wrong about speculating that Clodagh was a domestic abuser and Hawe therefore the victim ?

    Really, is that not obviously an abhorrent a supposition to make ?


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    #776
    TwilightFan88
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭TwilightFan88


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    The Hawe massacre, whilst utterly awful, wasn't the only murder suicide of a family on Ireland. Not by a long shot.

    Anyone remember the murder suicides in Monageer and Clonroche in Wexford around 2007?

    And in previous decades I suspect it was covered up by the authorities as something else.

    Only too well.

    Two families killed by the father who then took his own life.

    Both equally disturbing and wrong.

    But the narrative of these two stories were played out so differently in the media.

    Why? One family had money and one did not.

    The family with money and the good jobs and the GAA links were given a pass. A man that was an upstanding member of the community, and must have been suffering terrible. Woe is him narrative. Also was buried alongside those that he murdered. Also, this man also tried to hide the fact that he drugged him two sons, shot his wife and then shot himself by setting the house on fire to make it look like a terrible accident.

    The other family? On social, health issues, etc. So the narrative was that the father was a monster that planned it all and the wife and kids never stood a chance. Afterwards, it came out that she actually helped plan it all. Did the narrative change? No!

    But that is Ireland! That is RTE and the Irish papers.

    Needs to stop.

    Those two men were monsters. So was Alan Hawe.

    Their perceived social and economical status does not change that. Those reporting on these things need to wake up and realise that.


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    #777
    Bobbler15
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Bobbler15


    Does anyone know what was in the suicide letter? Hints as to why he done it? All you hear is he was expecting a "fall from grace" whatever that means.

    Maybe the letter would tell more?


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    #778
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    pjohnson wrote: »
    The fact I refer to are not speculation or rumour unless you think the Coroner is incompetent. Is that what you think?

    I am talking about Alan Hawe's mental state, conjecture about domestic abuse etc which the Coroner did not make any kind of statement about, but many posters are discussing as if they fully know the 'facts'.


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    #779
    captbarnacles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭captbarnacles


    The best thing that can come out of this is that everyone knows a person who does this will be reviled forever with anything they have done in life now worthless because of their crime. Zero sympathy and zero empathy for the perpetrator.

    Look at the notes Hawe left and there are similar notes in other cases too - they care what is thought of them after the fact. So if this change in attitude towards murder suicides could give even one potential killer pause for thought it will have accomplished something.


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    #780
    dok_golf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭dok_golf


    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    Genuine question - do you really not understand what was wrong about speculating that Clodagh was a domestic abuser and Hawe therefore the victim ?

    Really, is that not obviously an abhorrent a supposition to make ?

    By the same reasoning ( and I don't think for one minute clodagh Hawe was an abuser), to paint Alan Hawe himself as an evil calculating murderer without knowing the FULL FACTS is also pure supposition?


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    #781
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    dok_golf wrote: »
    There seem to be an awful lot of people who are obviously more qualified then myself, someone who suffered/still at times suffers from severe depression, that have decided that Alan Hawe was evil personified. Maybe he was, but none of us know definitively what happened or what was his state of mind. For the person who said he used the word "I" a lot in the suicide note, that's what depression does. It makes you isolated, insular and depending on the severity, that "everyone is against me". In my opinion, ( and I am no expert, just someone who has suffered episodes of psychosis) there is no way that the actions of Alan Hawe were those of a sane person. It would not surprise me if something happened that put him over the edge. Professor Patricia Casey said this morning that , in her opinion, this was a psychotic episode. Alan Hawe's GP said he didn't show any symptoms of depression. Well, neither did I. Only those in my immediate family ( my wife) could see that something was wrong. I, for one, am not qualified to either pronounce him insane nor evil. I just know, from my own experience that I lean towards mental illness ( or maybe I won't allow myself to believe that such evil exists) and I think "there goes me only for the grace of god".

    As you’ve discovered yourself, there is still a cohort of people in Ireland who are just itching to tell people like yourself to “build a bridge and get over it” “pull yourself together” because they really don’t believe that there’s any such thing as depression or any mental health issues, really.
    You can see here how the Professor of Psychiatry is dismissed with a wave of the hand.
    Posters on this thread have been frothing at the mouth for months, chomping at the bit about Alan Hawe.
    You would pity anyone close to any of them that would find themselves in the pits of despair. No comfort there.


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