DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

AuldManKing

skyblue46 wrote: »

Just a quick question on this. I have been very diligent on following the boards plan in terms of paces and the general layout of the plan. I have though being doing more miles than the plan almost all the way through it. When it comes to taper should I drop to the plan or use a percentage drop based on the last few weeks?

Not being a cop out, but either is fine.

The % difference will only mean a couple of miles here and there - the importance thing is that you keep the intensity the same but reduce volume.

Don't pull back too much too soon as you'll feel sluggish.
If you run 5 days a week, keep running 5 days a week - just do less on the days.

drkpower

Week 14 (i think; cant even remember anymore!)

Mon: 4.1m @ 8.21
Tue: 3.8m @ 8.20
Wed: 10.1m @ 8.15
Thu: 3.9m @ 8.23
Fri: 3.8m @ 8.13
Sat: LSR - 22.3m @ 8.54
Sun: Rest

TOTAL: 48.3

All going well; foot/feet feeling better; though i am starting to feel the cumulative chronic tiredness in the legs (at home as much as in the runs; getting up from the couch is inevitably accompanied by a low level groan - did i do that back in April...?).

Starting to look forward to the taper and the day itself. A sort of impatience is setting in. Not long left....

AuldManKing

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Just for any of ye heading to Longwood next week.

AMK's plan for the 3/4 marathon may look good for some of you. Bear in mind that he's a lot more experienced... and hence better at deciding when to ease back if it's not working. I won't be there, but it's an event I'd like to try eventually. Best of luck to anyone heading out ��

Good point WW - I'm not advocating that novice runners run the 3/4 in the same fashion. Doing it as a long run with segments at MP may serve them better.

skyblue46

brownbinman wrote: »

Bad news folks, I'm 100% out of this years race.

Long story short, I can't shift the injury I've had. I reckon it's from too much too soon. I'm finding it uncomfortable even walking, and even trotting across the road it's as if my leg is going to collapse underneath me. Very sore.

So, my plan is to keep an eye out for ye on the road that day with a big bag of jellies in my hang. I'm going to have to give it a month off and then get back to 5-10km over the winter. I really only started running in Feb/March so I'm guessing that's the major issue

Not the end of the world, these things happen but I think it would be very foolish to try attempt

Best of luck all

Ah that's terrible news. Main thing now is to get back to full health. Best of luck with that.

Wubble Wubble

brownbinman wrote: »

Bad news folks, I'm 100% out of this years race.

Long story short, I can't shift the injury I've had. I reckon it's from too much too soon. I'm finding it uncomfortable even walking, and even trotting across the road it's as if my leg is going to collapse underneath me. Very sore.

So, my plan is to keep an eye out for ye on the road that day with a big bag of jellies in my hang. I'm going to have to give it a month off and then get back to 5-10km over the winter. I really only started running in Feb/March so I'm guessing that's the major issue

Not the end of the world, these things happen but I think it would be very foolish to try attempt

Best of luck all

Very sorry to see you're out brownbinman.

Good luck with the recovery. There's plenty of shorter races to try once you're back healthy again. The Raheny 5 Mile, at the end of January, is one of the best races around early in the year. In the meantime, I'll watch out for the jellies

skyblue46

AuldManKing wrote: »

Not being a cop out, but either is fine.

The % difference will only mean a couple of miles here and there - the importance thing is that you keep the intensity the same but reduce volume.

Don't pull back too much too soon as you'll feel sluggish.
If you run 5 days a week, keep running 5 days a week - just do less on the days.

Yeah it is too big a reduction I am afraid of. I had 3 heavy weeks in a row which I followed with a step back week. That was followed by the week leading to the half which was lower miles again. That meant I practically had a 2 week taper for the half and I certainly felt the benefit of it. Just felt I shouldn't drop again too quickly after only 1 week of increased miles.

quickbeam

Aw, hard luck, Brownbinman. Get well soon!!

scotindublin

Sorry to hear that brownbinman.....get yourself right and follow the medical/physio advice that you get.

Take a positive from the journey in that you have added to your base level of fitness. There will be other marathons to enter......you have to look after your body.....better to have tried and come to this point than have not tried at all!

I am sure the Novices will welcome your support on the day.

brownbinman wrote: »

Bad news folks, I'm 100% out of this years race.

Long story short, I can't shift the injury I've had. I reckon it's from too much too soon. I'm finding it uncomfortable even walking, and even trotting across the road it's as if my leg is going to collapse underneath me. Very sore.

So, my plan is to keep an eye out for ye on the road that day with a big bag of jellies in my hang. I'm going to have to give it a month off and then get back to 5-10km over the winter. I really only started running in Feb/March so I'm guessing that's the major issue

Not the end of the world, these things happen but I think it would be very foolish to try attempt

Best of luck all

henrietta

Hi Guys.

This last week didn't go exactly according to plan but got most of my miles in so hopefully not too bad

Mon 25-Sep 6.00 56.5 9.27
Thurs 28-Sep 6.02 57.45 9.36
Fri 29-Sep 5.20 49.09 9.26
Sat 30-Sep 16.01 2.42.44 10.1

Did my circuit as usual on Tues. Wed was meant to be 9 miles but had really bad head cold and rain was terrible so didn't want to risk 40 min drive home in wet clothes so took day off.
Usually do Box fit on Tues lunch but skipped this week and made up 6 of the missed miles from wed.

LSR is way to fast again. I really think there must be something wrong with me that I just can't do what I'm told.
I run alone in a quiet area with no music and my mind thinks of all sorts over the 2/3 hr runs. This week I was thinking of how I'd motivate myself to keep going over last 6 miles of DCM and think it may have worked to speed me up, kept looking down at watch and having to drop pace dramatically!!

Well nearly there now, only one more really long training run. Nerves/doubt are starting to kick in big time.

Thanks to everyone here for all the advice and encouragement. I don't post too often but read daily.

brownbinman

Thanks for everyones kind works. Like Scott said, better to have tried and I am amazed with how far I've come. Not the end of the world and certainly not the end of me running

I'll be back!

Kellygirl

brownbinman wrote: »

Bad news folks, I'm 100% out of this years race.

Long story short, I can't shift the injury I've had. I reckon it's from too much too soon. I'm finding it uncomfortable even walking, and even trotting across the road it's as if my leg is going to collapse underneath me. Very sore.

So, my plan is to keep an eye out for ye on the road that day with a big bag of jellies in my hang. I'm going to have to give it a month off and then get back to 5-10km over the winter. I really only started running in Feb/March so I'm guessing that's the major issue

Not the end of the world, these things happen but I think it would be very foolish to try attempt

Best of luck all

So sorry to read that Brownbinman. Fair play to you for being sensible enough not to attempt it. Hope you get sorted soon and I’m Looking forward to the jellies!

podgec10

Great posts again this weekend

Step back week just done for me

A bit stiff early in the week so went easy on Tuesday and Wednesday

Mon - Rest
Tues - 10k @ 5:25/k
Wed - 7.3k @ 5:32/k
Thurs - 7 x hills (forgot to take my (legal) inhaler, so 5 did 5 uhill and 2 down hill in the middle)
Fri - Rest
Sat - 10.25k @5:08/k
Sun - 20k LSR @5:08/k (last 4k at PMP)

The last big week coming up this week so looking forward to getting through it and out the other side to taper and the big day! No major issues physically, some tightness in calves and shins but nothing to worry about at the moment anyway.

Well done everyone, keep up the training and try to enjoy it as well.

Kellygirl

henrietta wrote: »

Hi Guys.


LSR is way to fast again. I really think there must be something wrong with me that I just can't do what I'm told.
I run alone in a quiet area with no music and my mind thinks of all sorts over the 2/3 hr runs. This week I was thinking of how I'd motivate myself to keep going over last 6 miles of DCM and think it may have worked to speed me up, kept looking down at watch and having to drop pace dramatically!!

Well nearly there now, only one more really long training run. Nerves/doubt are starting to kick in big time.

Thanks to everyone here for all the advice and encouragement. I don't post too often but read daily.

I have that issue too. Some of my LSRs have been faster than my PMP. Tried to slow down at the weekend and my pacing was all over the place as kept speeding up. I wonder would the pacers mind if I tied myself to them with a rope :-) well done on your runs.

Sheep1978

Sorry to hear that BBM

smashiner

annapr wrote: »

Great post from AMK ^^^ ... except it was 2014 not 2104 . When the high was 19 degrees and very humid... :eek: (those of us who were novices that year still haven't gotten over it)

The main thing though from his post is... you've all done the training and it's alll about hanging in through October.... nearly there!

Hi annapr,
I laughed when I read your post, 2014 was my debut too and it was like running inside a fan oven while wearing a snorkel jacket :eek:

Pray for a nice cool day with drizzly rain Novices!

The reality is that you are powerless over the weather anyway and what will be will be, and everyone has to run in the same conditions anyway. As AMK wrote earlier, if the weather is a factor (too windy/warm) , then take this into account when working out a planned finish time and don't feel that you have to stick too hard to it as it is your first DCM after all and having an 'A','B' or 'C' time is a really good idea anyway.

A top tip for running in windy conditions to conserve energy is to 'draft' behind a few (bigger)people that are running at the same pace as you, in particular on the more exposed parts of the route such as Chesterfield Avenue and the Crumlin Road. Don't be the hero running on the grass head down into the wind.....

Sorry to hear about you having to pull out BBM, best of luck with your recovery, sounds like you are doing the right thing as I know a few lads that didn't pull out of the DCM when they should have and regretted it afterward, you will be back in the saddle soon

Spirogyra

AMK suppose wind is very string,is that likely to affect time much?pace I mean?

AuldManKing

Spirogyra wrote: »

AMK suppose wind is very string,is that likely to affect time much?pace I mean?

A strong headwind will cause you to use more effort to keep the pace, so in the race you'll be fatigued earlier.
You also tend to notice the headwind more than the tail wind.

It'll be important to keep with a group and get some protection from the wind that way.

But we all know that the morning of DCM will be a mild 8 degrees with only a 3km/h wind. :P

Candamir

Sorry to hear you're out BBM, hope your injury recovers quickly now with rest and you'll be back in the saddle in no time. I think we all have that fear of getting injured - especially now heading into the last few weeks. Am also looking forward to the jelly supply on the day!

This week was a step back week for me and needed both psychologically as well as physically! As it happened, I was knocked a bit with a bug so ended up missing a few runs as well, but shorter easy/recovery runs so I'm not too worried about that. Over the worst of it now, still a bit of a scratchy throat, but nothing that would stop me running. Hopefully (fingers and toes crossed) that'll be it now until the big day.

Mon 5m tempo @8:33
Tues 9.3m pace @8:38 (bit faster than intended, but felt good)
Wed/Thur Virus winning!
Fri: Felt better and was (over)due to do LSR, but also had to work so decided to leave LSR til tomorrow. Didn't want to risk overloading myself with a long run and a long flight and ending up sick again!
Sat LSR 14.1m @ 9:29 (according to garmin - strava logged 14.4 @9:17 - anybody have this before? I think it might be due to GPS wandering as some of my run was in a 'very built up area')
Sun Rest.

Enjoyed the long run. I just had a banana and some orange juice before and took a gel at 10miles. Felt strong all the way through, even though there were some hilly bits on the second half of the run. Looking forward (apprehensively) to next week's 20 miler!! And then the taper

I still haven't decided what to target for the day. Part of me is still wanting to push for 4 hours, and maybe if conditions are perfect on the day and everything goes well from here on I might give it a go. But also working on a plan B, C, D etc etc!

BrownEyes79

:(Week:?
Monday: 4m @ 9.17
Wednesday: 8m @ 9.50
Thursday: night 5m @ 9.37
Sunday: 20m @ 10.05

Did my 2nd 20miler on Sunday, didn’t feel great about it! I usually go out on a Saturday for lsr but had to postpone till Sunday, like others I had a couple of glasses of wine the night before (big mistake!) just couldn’t get comfortable running, had to stop a couple of times. My pace is all over the place and I’m feeling if I can’t do an lsr without stopping how am I going to do the marathon. It’s the first time I’m counting down the days for this to be over! Sorry for the moan!

Brownbinman I admire your positive attitude and wish you all the best in your recovery. This training will be a great foundation for next year!

Spirogyra

An option for me is just to stick with the 'Pacer'(3.45 or 3.40?) . Do they generally aim to run at the same pace every mile?. And if 'do my own thing' does one generally aim for the same pace per mile?. Are 'successful marathon runners' usually slower or faster in the second half?☺

Kellygirl

Spirogyra wrote: »

An option for me is just to stick with the 'Pacer'(3.45 or 3.40?) . Do they generally aim to run at the same pace every mile?. And if 'do my own thing' does one generally aim for the same pace per mile?. Are 'successful marathon runners' usually slower or faster in the second half?☺

There was a very good link put up on a post a few pages back to a video about pacing. It was about how the most successful runners do a negative split, running the second half faster. Well worth watching. If I can find it I’ll put it up again.

BrownEyes79 wrote: »

:(Week:?
Monday: 4m @ 9.17
Wednesday: 8m @ 9.50
Thursday: night 5m @ 9.37
Sunday: 20m @ 10.05

Did my 2nd 20miler on Sunday, didn’t feel great about it! I usually go out on a Saturday for lsr but had to postpone till Sunday, like others I had a couple of glasses of wine the night before (big mistake!) just couldn’t get comfortable running, had to stop a couple of times. My pace is all over the place and I’m feeling if I can’t do an lsr without stopping how am I going to do the marathon. It’s the first time I’m counting down the days for this to be over! Sorry for the moan!

Try not to worry. What’s to stop you walking every now and then in the marathon if you need to recover for a couple of minutes? You can still finish the marathon.

Kellygirl

Spirogyra, this was the link. Still had it open on my phone.

https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillan-marathon-pacing-webinar/

mark_jmc

did 18 mile lsr yesterday, feel great today!
my 2nd 20 miler planned for next Sunday.
Curious to know if any of you are running for charity- because of my own experiences I'll be running for the Irish Cancer society- interested to know about others/their motivations etc

scotindublin

A great cause to run for.....I actually fundraised for the Irish Cancer Society in DCM16.

Quiet emotional when you get it done and remember your reasons/motivations for doing it....also great when you are in a bit of pain during the marathon to think that it is only temporary and are not suffering like so many are.

Good luck with the fundraising!

mark_jmc wrote: »

did 18 mile lsr yesterday, feel great today!
my 2nd 20 miler planned for next Sunday.
Curious to know if any of you are running for charity- because of my own experiences I'll be running for the Irish Cancer society- interested to know about others/their motivations etc

Damo 2k9

Running for Temple Street Children's Foundation, was born with difficulties and spent the first year to 2 years in and out of there like a yoyo. In there last week and it really hit home, it's the main reason I haven't dropped out yet!

mark_jmc

scotindublin wrote: »

A great cause to run for.....I actually fundraised for the Irish Cancer Society in DCM16.

Quiet emotional when you get it done and remember your reasons/motivations for doing it....also great when you are in a bit of pain during the marathon to think that it is only temporary and are not suffering like so many are.

Good luck with the fundraising!

thanks scot, I can certainly relate to the reasons/motivations helping you along the way. Fingers crossed this will be my 10th marathon finish and my first since finishing chemo for cancer 2 years ago. I joined this thread because it truly feels like its my first marathon given I did my last one 6 years ago!

Unthought Known

Spirogyra wrote: »

An option for me is just to stick with the 'Pacer'(3.45 or 3.40?) . Do they generally aim to run at the same pace every mile?. And if 'do my own thing' does one generally aim for the same pace per mile?. Are 'successful marathon runners' usually slower or faster in the second half?☺

I don't think there are 3:45 pacers.
General consensus is that a negative split is preferable and this certainly makes sense for DCM given that most of the climbs are in the first 14 miles. This is something I've been questioning myself, it really comes down to committing to your race plan and having the confidence to hold a little back.
What I found last year is that I felt great following the 4hr pacers at an even pace up to mile 13, but that Crumlin drag at the same pace meant that I was struggling at mile 15.

Have a look at this link https://feelrace.com/fr.pl?th=MARCO and maybe see how it fits in with your plan.

Spirogyra

Kellygirl wrote: »

Spirogyra, this was the link. Still had it open on my phone.

https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillan-marathon-pacing-webinar/

That's a great video Kellygirl, thanks a lot I'll have to 'do my Maths tonight'

I'm going to try to find out 'what the Pacers do'.

I understand about not wanting to go out too fast...but I'm not really one for 'finishing strongly' or fast , apart from the final 100 metres or so

Candamir

Interesting! What's the feeling regarding actually being able to run negative splits? For inexperienced runners/racers? I like the idea, but I'd worry that when I'd ask my legs to speed up at 3, 10 and especially 18 miles that it just wouldn't be there! I'd end up running a much slower race than if I'd started at average pace. Is it a matter of practice or willpower, or both?

skyblue46

Spirogyra wrote: »

That's a great video Kellygirl, thanks a lot I'll have to 'do my Maths tonight'

I'm going to try to find out 'what the Pacers do'.

I understand about not wanting to go out too fast...but I'm not really one for 'finishing strongly' or fast , apart from the final 100 metres or so

I am sure the pacers do even miles all the way through