DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

Halloween Jack

So got pretty much the full week in last week, following the HH1 plan, which called for a 14m lsr, but i did 17 as i only jogged around and didn't race the half, so figured i owed my legs one:)

5 miles tonight was done at a nice easy pace but my legs are definitely feeling it, aches and pains all over the place.

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Haven't checked in here for a while, glad to see everybody is still hanging in there for the most part, found it difficult to go out yesterday eve, had 7 miles scheduled and really, really couldn't be arsed, but got it done all the same, it's those little moments that I think I'll take most satisfaction in when this is all done, getting the miles done when you think you can't.

First run of the cycle to finish In the dark last night and could definitely feel winter coming in, so at least everybody here can say they got use out of the outdoors over the better months!

I will try and post a few observations I have about this whole caper at some stage over the weekend as I'd like to know what people here think;).

Yeah, so it being the crux week for the entire escapade i suppose its as good a time as any to belch forth some random thoughts that I've been collecting over the last while.

Firstly, I'm absolutely thrilled to be here and everybody else here should be too. Even those of us like brownbinman who have had a heartbreaking injury should be proud of ourselves. We set out to do something a long time ago and we're here now within touching distance, i have no doubts that those of us who got injured would have made the start line and will definitely be back to fight another another day.

As thrilled as i am, there is also a twinge of sadness, its felt like a pretty big adventure setting out each week to run further than id ever done before. Once you hit 20 odd miles in training that sensation is pretty much gone forever. (If you read between the lines here I'm categorically ruling out ultras:))

One thing I've felt about the whole thing, and i don't want anybody who has struggled to take this the wrong way, is that i haven't found the training maybe as difficult as i thought i might physically speaking. My legs have been nipping at me pretty much constantly, but its been manageable and I've never felt overly drained or run down at the end of a training week.

As the runs have got longer I've definitely been in pain, but I've never come close to feeling like i would dnf and i have generally recovered ok for the following week. This may be a function of a disrupted training schedule as i reckon i missed probably 20% of the total number of runs and didn't chase them once missed, but is also down to the excellence of the plan posted in the OP and the wisdom I've received on this forum regarding pacing my runs, recovery etc.

While physically its been relatively ok, mentally its been a challenge at times. For me by far the most annoying run of the week is the longer/tougher midweek one. I found i was generally psyched/prepped for the LSR whereas the longer midweek run seemed to hang over me all the time. It was the hardest one to get out and do for me, particularly when under time pressure, but possibly the most satisfying to get out of the way:)

I have literally loads more, but want to save everybodies eyes and brains so i'll finish by saying the camaraderie not just here, but out on the roads evening after evening and at the race series etc is definitely the 4th dimension to the whole experience, thanks to all of you, especially the lady runner who smiled as i passed her twice on sunday about 10 miles apart

TFBubendorfer

D3PO wrote: »

pacers for DCM run even splits right ?

Yes

Halloween Jack

Sorry, missed the most important thing, my most cherished possession at this stage is a stick of body glide I bought in Chicago in around 2012. It went unused until after the seriously grisly denouement of a 12 mile lsr.....

Kellygirl

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Sorry, missed the most important thing, my most cherished possession at this stage is a stick of body glide I bought in Chicago in around 2012. It went unused until after the seriously grisly denouement of a 12 mile lsr.....

Great post Halloween Jack - the previous one I mean. And yes - you can't beat Body Glide. I've just bought either my third or fourth stick this year alone. I coat myself in it!

ariana`

Kellygirl wrote: »

Great post Halloween Jack - the previous one I mean. And yes - you can't beat Body Glide. I've just bought either my third or fourth stick this year alone. I coat myself in it!

Am u doing something wrong, I've never had to use anything? Sorry if it's a silly question but where do people chafe?

ariana`

Kellygirl I think we should run together and possibly browneyes too? We're all in the 4:20-4:30 bracket. Kellygirl I am following replies to your post with interest but as a complete novice I have no advice I'm afraid. I fluctuate between thinking I can run 4:20 & 4:30 myself but I will definitely go with a pacer as I can't seem to pace myself at all. I did an PMP run tonight and ran my 2nd fastest km ever I think (rolls eyes to heaven).

Halloween Jack

ariana` wrote: »

Am u doing something wrong, I've never had to use anything? Sorry if it's a silly question but where do people chafe?

Personally I chafe in the kind of places your worst enemy would chose to locate chafing.

Damo 2k9

This weeks hitting hard already and only 1 run in. Went on a 5 miler today and knee is still acting up, its really getting to me as I think if I got it sorted id be a pretty decent runner (without sounding big headed), and definitely think that its going to take away from the big day and not allow me to enjoy it as much. Have to try get to a physio this week, and hope that theres some short term fix thats able to be done to get me through the day. Also, my right foot started acting up today, feels as if its bruised on the top of the foot, like where you would kick a ball with. Its just one thing after another at the moment

BrownEyes79

ariana` wrote: »

Kellygirl I think we should run together and possibly browneyes too? We're all in the 4:20-4:30 bracket. Kellygirl I am following replies to your post with interest but as a complete novice I have no advice I'm afraid. I fluctuate between thinking I can run 4:20 & 4:30 myself but I will definitely go with a pacer as I can't seem to pace myself at all. I did an PMP run tonight and ran my 2nd fastest km ever I think (rolls eyes to heaven).

I’d be up for that ariana, definitely a pre race meet up.
I don’t think I’ll ever be doing a marathon again so would like to aim for around the 4.20 mark but am flexible on the day!! Leesider and some others might be interested too??

ariana`

BrownEyes79 wrote: »

I’d be up for that ariana, definitely a pre race meet up.
I don’t think I’ll ever be doing a marathon again so would like to aim for around the 4.20 mark but am flexible on the day!! Leesider and some others might be interested too??

Yes absolutely there's a good few of us around the same, my brain is fried from lack of sleep right now so I couldn't think of names. And likewise I'm veering towards 4:20 but then i question myself after reading some of El Caballos brilliant posts regarding being conservative. Any ideas of where a good meet point would be or a time? I haven't worked out the logistics of the day yet but would really love to meet some of you and not be billy-no-mates for the duration

BrownEyes79

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

This weeks hitting hard already and only 1 run in. Went on a 5 miler today and knee is still acting up, its really getting to me as I think if I got it sorted id be a pretty decent runner (without sounding big headed), and definitely think that its going to take away from the big day and not allow me to enjoy it as much. Have to try get to a physio this week, and hope that theres some short term fix thats able to be done to get me through the day. Also, my right foot started acting up today, feels as if its bruised on the top of the foot, like where you would kick a ball with. Its just one thing after another at the moment

Physio is definitely the way to go but do you ever try foam rolling to compliment it?? It might relieve some of the pressure for you (BTW I’m no expert but it’s really helped my knee issues)

Kellygirl

ariana` wrote: »

Am u doing something wrong, I've never had to use anything? Sorry if it's a silly question but where do people chafe?

I tend to chafe under my arms sort of or the odd time at the waist line of my shorts or bra straps so I just cooler myself in body glide and sorted then. Certain underwear used cause me problems too.

Kellygirl

ariana` wrote: »

Kellygirl I think we should run together and possibly browneyes too? We're all in the 4:20-4:30 bracket. Kellygirl I am following replies to your post with interest but as a complete novice I have no advice I'm afraid. I fluctuate between thinking I can run 4:20 & 4:30 myself but I will definitely go with a pacer as I can't seem to pace myself at all. I did an PMP run tonight and ran my 2nd fastest km ever I think (rolls eyes to heaven).

I am definitely on for that! Would be brilliant!

Kellygirl

ariana` wrote: »

Yes absolutely there's a good few of us around the same, my brain is fried from lack of sleep right now so I couldn't think of names. And likewise I'm veering towards 4:20 but then i question myself after reading some of El Caballos brilliant posts regarding being conservative. Any ideas of where a good meet point would be or a time? I haven't worked out the logistics of the day yet but would really love to meet some of you and not be billy-no-mates for the duration

Leesider and I will be coming in together that morning anyway and will be carrying phones so can try and find each other that way even if we just have a loose idea of where and when.

I'm dying to find out more logistics about the day such as whether it's best to leave stuff in the bag drop area or with somebody who'll be near the finish line. I'm assuming it's going to be crazy at thefiniah line and will want a jacket fast!!!!

BrownEyes79

ariana` wrote: »

Yes absolutely there's a good few of us around the same, my brain is fried from lack of sleep right now so I couldn't think of names. And likewise I'm veering towards 4:20 but then i question myself after reading some of El Caballos brilliant posts regarding being conservative. Any ideas of where a good meet point would be or a time? I haven't worked out the logistics of the day yet but would really love to meet some of you and not be billy-no-mates for the duration

I know all the info over the last few pages has been amazing

I’ll be billy no mate too We could meet at trinity maybe and walk up together, we can PM better details over the next few weeks.

Meant to say well done on getting your runs in last week especially in the heat!

Unthought Known

ariana` wrote: »

Yes absolutely there's a good few of us around the same, my brain is fried from lack of sleep right now so I couldn't think of names. And likewise I'm veering towards 4:20 but then i question myself after reading some of El Caballos brilliant posts regarding being conservative. Any ideas of where a good meet point would be or a time? I haven't worked out the logistics of the day yet but would really love to meet some of you and not be billy-no-mates for the duration

I'd say that's as good a place as any for you, just before you hit the baggage drop.

Damo 2k9

BrownEyes79 wrote: »

Physio is definitely the way to go but do you ever try foam rolling to compliment it?? It might relieve some of the pressure for you (BTW I’m no expert but it’s really helped my knee issues)

Yep, actually just finished tonights session. I even got a sports massage last week and when I explained that I was having trouble with my knee they tried to see could they find anything wrong and couldnt. Really annoying but the show must go on.

El Caballo

ariana` wrote: »

Yes absolutely there's a good few of us around the same, my brain is fried from lack of sleep right now so I couldn't think of names. And likewise I'm veering towards 4:20 but then i question myself after reading some of El Caballos brilliant posts regarding being conservative. Any ideas of where a good meet point would be or a time? I haven't worked out the logistics of the day yet but would really love to meet some of you and not be billy-no-mates for the duration

There's always a traditional boards meet up in McGrattans p after the race with the novices and loads of other boardsies running and supporting on the day. The earlier I get there, the better anyway!:pac:

dos29

@Kellygirl

I don't think your giving yourself enough credit.
Very much an amateur opinion here, so take with a pinch of salt maybe, but I don't think you're factoring in cumulative fatigue enough in your timings. Majority, (if not all?), of your LSR's have been quicker than a 4.30 marathon, and they're supposed to be slower than PMP. I know I couldn't have physically run my LSR's quicker than my PMP, and I'm guessing a lot of others would be similar, so I think there is scope for a good step up in your time on the day.
From my personal limited experience, I had been worried about how slow my runs had become a while back, until I ran a half. Between the rest days beforehand and the buzz of the day, I did better than I could have dreamed of, and that has given me my view on LSR timings and cumulative fatigue.
I would say if your any way comfortable doing the 20m at 4.30 pace without a LOT of rest in the lead up, you're well able for better on the big day, so that would be a good indicator.
As I say though, far from expert on this, so don't take any of this as gospel, unless one of the more seasoned contributors are of a similar opinion.

Kellygirl

dos29 wrote: »

@Kellygirl

I don't think your giving yourself enough credit.
Very much an amateur opinion here, so take with a pinch of salt maybe, but I don't think you're factoring in cumulative fatigue enough in your timings. Majority, (if not all?), of your LSR's have been quicker than a 4.30 marathon, and they're supposed to be slower than PMP. I know I couldn't have physically run my LSR's quicker than my PMP, and I'm guessing a lot of others would be similar, so I think there is scope for a good step up in your time on the day.
From my personal limited experience, I had been worried about how slow my runs had become a while back, until I ran a half. Between the rest days beforehand and the buzz of the day, I did better than I could have dreamed of, and that has given me my view on LSR timings and cumulative fatigue.
I would say if your any way comfortable doing the 20m at 4.30 pace without a LOT of rest in the lead up, you're well able for better on the big day, so that would be a good indicator.
As I say though, far from expert on this, so don't take any of this as gospel, unless one of the more seasoned contributors are of a similar opinion.

Thanks Dos29. I think I'm going to do 20 miles at 6:23 this Saturday. That's the 4:30 pace. It won't take too much out of me. I have no problem going running again the next day after my lsrs. It's slower than most of my runs including my previous 20 mile. It's just the next 6 miles I'm worried about. I know I could prob do the first 20 miles much faster but again it's the last 6 miles I'm afraid of so hoping it's enough to stay at the 4:30 pace.

skyblue46

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

This weeks hitting hard already and only 1 run in. Went on a 5 miler today and knee is still acting up, its really getting to me as I think if I got it sorted id be a pretty decent runner (without sounding big headed), and definitely think that its going to take away from the big day and not allow me to enjoy it as much. Have to try get to a physio this week, and hope that theres some short term fix thats able to be done to get me through the day. Also, my right foot started acting up today, feels as if its bruised on the top of the foot, like where you would kick a ball with. Its just one thing after another at the moment

Damo get that foot checked out. I got something similar two years ago and it was a stress fracture.... Yours probably isn't but it's very bad to run on it if it is.

skyblue46

Kellygirl wrote: »

Thanks Dos29. I think I'm going to do 20 miles at 6:23 this Saturday. That's the 4:30 pace. It won't take too much out of me. I have no problem going running again the next day after my lsrs. It's slower than most of my runs including my previous 20 mile. It's just the next 6 miles I'm worried about. I know I could prob do the first 20 miles much faster but again it's the last 6 miles I'm afraid of so hoping it's enough to stay at the 4:30 pace.

Had a look at your paces on Strava. I think if you follow some of the recent advice re pacing you have every chance of 4:20. Go out steady...very steady.

Singer

El Caballo wrote: »

There's always a traditional boards meet up in McGrattans p after the race with the novices and loads of other boardsies running and supporting on the day. The earlier I get there, the better anyway!:pac:

I previously wrote a very detailed guide to how to really finish the marathon and get to McGrattans: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97345081

A pre-marathon meet-up would be difficult - everybody will be mad nervous and milling about surrounded by a zillion other runners, and most likely needing to attend to important things like finding somewhere to pee. A post-race pint (or 5) is far more likely to succeed. I brought a sign two years ago to attract random boards folks and could be convinced to bring another, as I'll just be spectating this year.

Kellygirl

skyblue46 wrote: »

Had a look at your paces on Strava. I think if you follow some of the recent advice re pacing you have every chance of 4:20. Go out steady...very steady.

That would be the ultimate dream! Do you reckon going with the 4:30 guys and sticking with them would be steady enough? I think I have learned enough not to take off and I had a great experience with a negative split in my 10mile race as I started out fairly slow as had a head cold and wasn’t sure how I was go8ng to be. Running seemed to clear it so I just took off then for the 2nd half or so and it felt amazing passing people out for a few miles.

skyblue46

Kellygirl wrote: »

That would be the ultimate dream! Do you reckon going with the 4:30 guys and sticking with them would be steady enough? I think I have learned enough not to take off and I had a great experience with a negative split in my 10mile race as I started out fairly slow as had a head cold and wasn’t sure how I was go8ng to be. Running seemed to clear it so I just took off then for the 2nd half or so and it felt amazing passing people out for a few miles.

Yeah that sounds like a plan! I tried a long run on Sunday during which I was over 5 minutes down on my 4 hour PMP after 10k yet was back on target by the end. It's now my template for the big day. If you know you can run 20 at a certain pace then use the first 6 miles as a steady warm up to get you to the point where you can confidently pick up the pace.

skyblue46

Just a reminder to the few that said they might be around on Saturday morning at 8ish (tbc) for an 18 miler at 10 min +/- that we might firm things up a bit soon. Hole in the Wall car park on the north side of the Phoenix Park.

Kellygirl

skyblue46 wrote: »

Yeah that sounds like a plan! I tried a long run on Sunday during which I was over 5 minutes down on my 4 hour PMP after 10k yet was back on target by the end. It's now my template for the big day. If you know you can run 20 at a certain pace then use the first 6 miles as a steady warm up to get you to the point where you can confidently pick up the pace.

Sounds good. Dying to get out for Saturday's run now!! That sounds like a great run you did!

Lazare

Had to cut this morning's run to 3m instead of 5. Got up too late at about 6:40. Had to peel myself out of the bed.

Have to get the toddler ready for playschool and myself ready for work now every morning. Feeding and clothing a bonkers toddler while trying to feed and clothe myself takes a loooong time.

Tomorrow's run is 1m w/u 5m pace and 1m c/d. Just checked Aug 9th's Strava when I did it last and it took 1hr 4mins which means I would need to leave the house at about 6:05. Ugh.

Think I'm gonna make it a half mile warm up and cool down and leave in and around 6:20.

Posting this now so current me can win the argument with sleepy 6am me in the morn. "Gerrup ye eejit, they'll all see on Strava that you couldn't get out of the sack"

Better go to bed.

Kellygirl

Singer wrote: »

I previously wrote a very detailed guide to how to really finish the marathon and get to McGrattans: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97345081

Love it!

skyblue46

Kellygirl wrote: »

Sounds good. Dying to get out for Saturday's run now!! That sounds like a great run you did!

I was buzzing after it! Made the route tougher than DCM and gathered good info. If you take it easy for the first 6/7 miles which are gradually uphill to the highest point of the course in Castleknock you then have 3 miles of steep downhill where you can pick up time while conserving energy. That just leaves 16 miles and if you pace it right you'll still be fresh.