Do you really need a car?

Glenster

Parchment wrote: »

People dont want to be part of the solution if it involves leaving the house a bit earlier or some physical exertion.

People don't want to waste their time.

The solution is speeding up public transport. Not everyone taking a longer route to work.

jester77

I'm 40, never owned a car and never really drove. Got my license about 15 years ago when I was living in a different city, but ended up moving a few weeks after and my driving test was the last time I drove.

I did out the maths after moving and it was more cost efficient to pay extra rent and live in the city than to pay for running a car and getting taxis on weekends.

witchgirl26

I do need my car mainly to get to work but also to get over to my mam as I live the far end of the M50 from her. It would take over an hour on a bus going through town to get to her or 35 mins on the m50. My work isn't that far from home now but the cycle would be quite a difficult one and I really wouldn't be at that level.

I think judging one-person cars can be a bit harsh. One of the guys I used to work with would drive in 3 out of 5 days when he only lived a 15 min luas ride from the office (outside city centre). The reason he had to drive though was because he could have to go out from the office at short notice to a client site that may not be anywhere near public transport.

I used to use the bus all the time when I worked in the city centre and enjoyed my commute as I didn't have to do anything except sit back and listen to music or read my book but I didn't generally have to go anywhere after work or during the working day in that job.

Dr Crayfish

Glenster wrote: »

People don't want to waste their time.

The solution is speeding up public transport. Not everyone taking a longer route to work.

Even the dart, while somewhat reliable, is a bit of a joke. It’s a prehistoric service and always has been. I usually cycle to town but any time I take the dart, it stops in East Wall multiple times, we are never given an explanation as to why, and the train goes so slow all the way to town. They should be going a lot faster and if they’re going to stop every few minutes in between stops, the driver should have to explain why they’ve stopped, as it is in London on the tube. It’s an awful service.

TheDoc

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Now I know a lot of people have no other way of getting to work and stuff, but I think there are a lot of people clogging the roads every day that don't really need to be. There's a girl at work who has started driving in from Finglas every day, we work in the city centre, and is quite happy to sit in ridiculous traffic for an hour or more every morning. Single occupancy too. This isn't an isolated case in my work either, quite a few people do it. I used to live out that way and bus took about 30 mins max into town even at rush hour.
She earns way less than me and must be paying 1000s in insurance. Why are people so adamant to be driving? I have use of a family car when I need it, which I may use once every week or two to go for a spin but that's about all. I usually regret it as Saturday and Sunday afternoons can sometimes be really clogged on the roads with arseholes (like me) driving around aimlessly.
I cycle to work most days, and nearly all the cars seem to only have one person in them. I remember talking to a girl online a few months ago who drove into town every morning from Artane ffs! That's about 6km, you could walk it in less than an hour. She said she didn't mind sitting in the traffic for ages because it was nice and warm.
This kind of thing almost makes me favour a congestion charge in Dublin, if the money was put to good use to get the roads flowing.
So could you do without your car? And how are people willing to pay these mental insurance prices?

Typically in this argument that focuses on commutes, it's forgotten about the other trips and benefits a car brings. Shopping and visiting for example?

I drive to work each day, moved recently so the commute is quicker, but still use the M50. I could do a bus into town and then another bus in the business park. But I prefer the comfort of my own car, where I can smoke, and just generally be comfortable and not hassled.

I did buses into town for college etc. and when I was done said I wouldn't go near a bus again. Unreliable, not that cheap and just horrendously uncomfortable at the best of times. Even working in town in my last job, I drove in.

Of course if cars were gone tomorrow, I'd make it work. But I can afford my car, I can afford to drive, and I'll happily pay the extra €'s to have comfort on my commute rather then being a sardine in a horrendous train or bus.

Dr Crayfish

jester77 wrote: »

I'm 40, never owned a car and never really drove. Got my license about 15 years ago when I was living in a different city, but ended up moving a few weeks after and my driving test was the last time I drove.

I did out the maths after moving and it was more cost efficient to pay extra rent and live in the city than to pay for running a car and getting taxis on weekends.

Yeah but you live in Hamburg where the transport is second to none, I've enjoyed it there myself!

TheDoc

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Yes, good man, I really don't understand why more people don't use motorbikes and scooters and electric bicycles. So much faster and economical.

Car will be more comfortable for many people, not to mention there is some safety issues using a bike as opposed a car. I only know two fellas who are still using motorbikes and its because its their passion but they just use them at weekends or nice evenings. Their commutes are done in cars.

Got sick of the injuries and crashes.

Dr Crayfish

TheDoc wrote: »

Typically in this argument that focuses on commutes, it's forgotten about the other trips and benefits a car brings. Shopping and visiting for example?

I drive to work each day, moved recently so the commute is quicker, but still use the M50. I could do a bus into town and then another bus in the business park. But I prefer the comfort of my own car, where I can smoke, and just generally be comfortable and not hassled.

I did buses into town for college etc. and when I was done said I wouldn't go near a bus again. Unreliable, not that cheap and just horrendously uncomfortable at the best of times. Even working in town in my last job, I drove in.

Of course if cars were gone tomorrow, I'd make it work. But I can afford my car, I can afford to drive, and I'll happily pay the extra €'s to have comfort on my commute rather then being a sardine in a horrendous train or bus.

I understand you can do that now, but the way things are going, the roads are going to get worse and worse, especially when people who don't really need to be driving are doing so. I'm not saying you're one of those people but there are certainly people clogging the roads that could easily get to work another day.
Do people think every adult should be driving a car? Or just some?!

Parchment

Glenster wrote: »

People don't want to waste their time.

The solution is speeding up public transport. Not everyone taking a longer route to work.

Yes - i totally agree, public transport needs to be improved but in the meantime people can help start the change.

It actually takes me less time to cycle to work than to drive - so its not a waste.People i work with say they dont know how i can be bothered to get changed in work in the morning and before i go home....but then i pass them in traffic after work.

Its that attitude that means people wont change. I'm not trying to portray myself as morally superior but like i said - its good to try to be part of the solution and not the problem. No point moaning about it - do something about it.

Dr Crayfish

Parchment wrote: »

Yes - i totally agree, public transport needs to be improved but in the meantime people can help start the change.

It actually takes me less time to cycle to work than to drive - so its not a waste.People i work with say they dont know how i can be bothered to get changed in work in the morning and before i go home....but then i pass them in traffic after work.

Its that attitude that means people wont change. I'm not trying to portray myself as morally superior but like i said - its good to try to be part of the solution and not the problem. No point moaning about it - do something about it.

I don't know if you're a man or a woman, but my routine is having a shower in the morning, and cycling at a leisurely pace to work, and I look fine when I get there. I appreciate people coming from long distances need to wear lycra and all that jazz but for people within 10km or so this stuff isn't necessary, nor is breaking much of a sweat.

TheDoc

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Or in this country in general

Big fan of American muscle cars. The thread title should be "Does Ireland really need all the mondane **** 1.0L Diesel turbos to save a few quid on tax and insurance?"

Dr Crayfish

TheDoc wrote: »

"Does Ireland really need all the mondane **** 1.0L Diesel turbos to save a few quid on tax and insurance?"

Yes it really does given the absolute insurance racket that's going on at the moment where any car with a larger engine than this is charged an absolute fortune.

Parchment

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I don't know if you're a man or a woman, but my routine is having a shower in the morning, and cycling at a leisurely pace to work, and I look fine when I get there. I appreciate people coming from long distances need to wear lycra and all that jazz but for people within 10km or so this stuff isn't necessary, nor is breaking much of a sweat.

I cycle further than that and it requires a change (for me personally). I also cycle pretty fast as i try to make it a workout each morning.

rob316

I'd never give up my car, I recently bought a big 2l 200bhp saloon its costs me a fortune between loan, insurance, maintenance but I couldn't care. Driving my car on an open road is one of my few pleasures in life.

I live in the city centre, I work in the city centre. Furthest it goes Monday to Friday is probably about 10km e/w to the gym, few school runs and a run to the shops.

I probably could do without it but public transport is ****e and I have no interest in using it.

TheDoc

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I understand you can do that now, but the way things are going, the roads are going to get worse and worse, especially when people who don't really need to be driving are doing so. I'm not saying you're one of those people but there are certainly people clogging the roads that could easily get to work another day.
Do people think every adult should be driving a car? Or just some?!

If they can afford it, yes, they should.

I'd have absolutely no faith in our government or ministry for transport to manage my commute, not would I want to go near a bus or a train in their current operation.

There are just simply too many pros to owning a car. There might well be some rubbish initiatives or policies brought in, but consecutive governments and councils have made an absolute bags of infrastructural planning in this country that will go on and on and on.

I'd quicker envisage an infrastructural overhaul taking place, than some reduction or ban brought in on driving.

Road design in this country is terrible at best, and the planning for estates and housing in conjunction with the general traffic flow is laughable at best. Consecutive governments have been warned so until one of them finally take head, yeah it probably will get worse.

But Ireland isn't a big country, we won't exponentially grow in population size or car ownership, that can be forecasted and it will plateu at a point.

Ireland is decades behind in terms of public transport, maybe when it gets brought up to line a bit, people might be more enticed by it.

I am originally from Swords, and the "Metro" has been muted there for as long as I've been conscious as an adult. Instead one of the biggest boom towns in Europe (at a point Swords had more under 25 population than any town in Europe) was left with three Dublin buses, all going on incredibly inefficient routes.

So for many of us, I'd say like me, there is just no argument or convincing that there is anything close to owning a car. Literally not even close.

Dr Crayfish

TheDoc wrote: »

If they can afford it, yes, they should.

But there simply isn't enough room for everyone to have a car. We need to find another way!

TheDoc

Parchment wrote: »

Yes - i totally agree, public transport needs to be improved but in the meantime people can help start the change.

It actually takes me less time to cycle to work than to drive - so its not a waste.People i work with say they dont know how i can be bothered to get changed in work in the morning and before i go home....but then i pass them in traffic after work.

Its that attitude that means people wont change. I'm not trying to portray myself as morally superior but like i said - its good to try to be part of the solution and not the problem. No point moaning about it - do something about it.

Me moving from my car to a bike is like me cleaning a jam jar saying I'm helping with global warming. It's basically nonsense.

The cycling method is fine for some people, but not for others. I could list them off, but fitness, health, weight, weather, distance, job type and the list goes on.

Only a handful of people cycle into my office of over 200 people, because there is no showering facilities. Those that cycle have to take membership in a gym across the way to shower in the morning. Membership in a gym... They also lock their bikes over there, as our office has no bike racks.

Yet we do a bike to work scheme....

I'd quicker quit my job and get one working from home then cycling to my office to be honest. Whatever about all the actual legit issues, I just couldn't take any sort of moral victory of me "helping congestion" by panting my way into work every day : /

Parchment

TheDoc wrote: »

If they can afford it, yes, they should.

.

This is nuts - are you aware of cars impact on the environment?

Glenster

Parchment wrote: »

Yes - i totally agree, public transport needs to be improved but in the meantime people can help start the change.

It actually takes me less time to cycle to work than to drive - so its not a waste.People i work with say they dont know how i can be bothered to get changed in work in the morning and before i go home....but then i pass them in traffic after work.

I could cycle in in roughly the amount of time it takes me to drive in (But I normally get the dart).

But I meet external clients most days and a crumpled up suit that came out of a suit bag doesn't cut it anymore. I also don't think its professional to walk through the office to the showers in cycling gear in the morning.

Its that attitude that means people wont change. I'm not trying to portray myself as morally superior but like i said - its good to try to be part of the solution and not the problem. No point moaning about it - do something about it.

I didn't find you morally superior, just naïve.

People don't do things for no reason.

While I'm sure some people might feel pious about cycling into work and that might make the extra hassle worth it for them, most just want to get from A-B by the most convenient method available.

So it seems obvious to me that the solution to the problem is to make those methods of commuting that don't cause traffic more convenient.

TheDoc

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

But there simply isn't enough room for everyone to have a car. We need to find another way!

Says who?

There is plenty of room, just require governments and councils to get a brain when it comes to planning and traffic management.

I'm on the M50 twice a day, so as anyone who does the same, knows all about congestion and traffic. Top onto that I worked and drove into the city centre every day for three years in another job.

And while I would be fuming at rubbernecking, rubberbanding, taxis, cyclists, everything under the sun, I never once came to the conclusion the issue was "**** me there is too many people driving".

It was always "what ****ing arsehole thought this was a good idea" or "what the **** do the traffic corp actually do?"

greenflash

I (we as a family) need two big cars.

I am self employed and work all over the country, often in different towns on the same day and clock up around 30,000 miles a year. I have to carry work equipment so need the space of a large car yet at times also have to drive the children around so a bike, van or public transport wouldn't work.

We then have a 7 seater MPV as we've 3 kids and need to do drop offs and collections as they are between 2 and 4 years old. My wife also works and her job is not on viable public transport routes from our home.

TheDoc

Parchment wrote: »

This is nuts - are you aware of cars impact on the environment?

Not everyone cares about the environment ?

Sorry I've been to the States, I've been to India, I've been to Asia. Me switching from my 1.4L Astra to a bike isn't going to save the world, even less then you cleaning out a marmite jar for your green bin.

I'm also fully aware of the impact of Diesel cars on the environment and city populations as opposed to petrol. And yet everyone is buying Diesel??

Oh yeah, incredibly brain dead government policy to change the tax band on cars, moving people to Diesels who 100% don't need one just because its cheaper per year.

Sorry but environmental impact is probably bottom of the list of points to argue in terms of car ownership. And I know there is plenty like me where the "environment" just features nowhere on the radar. That's not denying there is an issue there, or denying global warming is a thing, just coming to the conclusion that I couldn't care about anything less, and there is no more poxy excuse to rip taxation or jack pricing than "the environment" when you live in a country like Ireland, and share the planet with countries like North Korea, Russia, USA,China etc.

Glenster

TheDoc wrote: »

And while I would be fuming at rubbernecking, rubberbanding, taxis, cyclists, everything under the sun, I never once came to the conclusion the issue was "**** me there is too many people driving".

In fairness the M50 is pretty well designed, the only thing that slows it down every day is idiot drivers.

The government need to redesign drivers and make sure they aren't fannying about on motorways.

riverrocked

Myself and the wife have one car between us. I walk about twenty minutes to work and she drives about forty minutes to work. She couldn't do it without the car. If I need the car I have to drive her to work, go about my day and drive back in the evening to collect her. That doesn't happen too often so it works out okay.

Parchment

Glenster wrote: »

I could cycle in in roughly the amount of time it takes me to drive in (But I normally get the dart).

But I meet external clients most days and a crumpled up suit that came out of a suit bag doesn't cut it anymore. I also don't think its professional to walk through the office to the showers in cycling gear in the morning.



I didn't find you morally superior, just naïve.

People don't do things for no reason.

While I'm sure some people might feel pious about cycling into work and that might make the extra hassle worth it for them, most just want to get from A-B by the most convenient method available.

So it seems obvious to me that the solution to the problem is to make those methods of commuting that don't cause traffic more convenient.

I dont traipse through the office in cycling gear - i get changed before i go into the office. Its not hard to do.

I previously said that i understand people need their cars for various reasons throughout the course of their day at work.

I dont feel pious about cycling to work but like you say people choose whats most convenient to them and it works for me.

I think to call someone who looks for alternatives to motor transport naive is hugely uninformed.

TheDoc

Glenster wrote: »

In fairness the M50 is pretty well designed, the only thing that slows it down every day is idiot drivers.

The government need to redesign drivers and make sure they aren't fannying about on motorways.

M50 has some absolutely ludicrous merging lanes and exits that make absolutely no sense and are a consistent pinpoint for accidents or speed reduction to allow merging.

But yeah in the whole it's driving. But then where does that come from? Government policy.

That learners cannot drive on the motorway, what should be, technically, the safest road you will ever drive on, is absolutely insane. Drivers first interaction with a motorway, is after they have passed a test(yet had no training or questions on a motorway) and travel it for the first time, and dozens of times, alone, under no instruction.

That is part of the whole learner driving thing I'll never understand. Whatever about roundabouts, there is a widespread issue in Dublin for people understanding how a motorway works.

Parchment

TheDoc wrote: »

Not everyone cares about the environment ?

Sorry I've been to the States, I've been to India, I've been to Asia. Me switching from my 1.4L Astra to a bike isn't going to save the world, even less then you cleaning out a marmite jar for your green bin.

I'm also fully aware of the impact of Diesel cars on the environment and city populations as opposed to petrol. And yet everyone is buying Diesel??

Oh yeah, incredibly brain dead government policy to change the tax band on cars, moving people to Diesels who 100% don't need one just because its cheaper per year.

Sorry but environmental impact is probably bottom of the list of points to argue in terms of car ownership. And I know there is plenty like me where the "environment" just features nowhere on the radar. That's not denying there is an issue there, or denying global warming is a thing, just coming to the conclusion that I couldn't care about anything less, and there is no more poxy excuse to rip taxation or jack pricing than "the environment" when you live in a country like Ireland, and share the planet with countries like North Korea, Russia, USA,China etc.

Its attitudes like yours that remind me of the movie Idiocracy.

TheDoc

Parchment wrote: »

I think to call someone who looks for alternatives to motor transport naive is hugely uninformed.

To be honest you did just try to use the environment argument to me

TheDoc

Parchment wrote: »

Its attitudes like yours that remind me of the movie Idiocracy.

haha nice response.

What do you find idiotic about it?

Glenster

Parchment wrote: »

I think to call someone who looks for alternatives to motor transport naive is hugely uninformed.

I think someone who believes that people will stop doing something convenient that they've done for years and replace it with something less convenient for no other reason that 'its better for the environment' is naïve.

And if you can give me a single example of a body of people altruistically changing to something less convenient I will retract what I've said.