Do you really need a car?

jmayo

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Oh no when I say cities I'm talking about major urban areas as well.
You've also missed the finer point that I was making.
My issue is not with the cross subsidisation of rural areas.
It's when this process is supporting unsustainable development patterns.
It's when someone in a pokey 2 bed apartment in Dublin is paying the same or more property tax as someone who is living in a 4/5 bed detached house in the countryside.
Tax payments should be equitable and shouldn't incentive unsustainable ways of living.

But the thing is the 2 bed apartment in Dublin city centre may be worth more in value than a 4/5 bed house in rural Mayo or Roscommon.
Not going to resort to the ubiquitous Leitrim.

Property tax anywhere is not just based on size, but also location.
I think you are confusing property tax with local taxes.

Also the person living in the 2 bed apartment in Dublin is basically getting water and sewage treatment for free unlike the person in the 4/5 bed detached rural property who has to pay for installation of well/group water scheme, water treatment/filtration system, running of pumps, septic tank/filtration system and their continous upkeep.

I live in a rural location where I pay for well and septic tank/filitration system so when city dwellers complain about paying towards upkeep of my local road I might equally ask why my taxes be used to help provide said city dwellers with water and sewage treatment.

Sosurface wrote: »

Haha. Ireland is nowhere near grown up enough of a country to encourage people to use bicycles on roads populate largely by ignorant pyschopaths in steel cages.

And what about the idiots on bicycles ?

Sosurface

jmayo wrote: »

And what about the idiots on bicycles ?

What proportion of fatal road accidents can be attributed to cyclists or any kind of bike users compared to cars?

end of the road

John_Rambo wrote: »

So, it’s not bullshyte then. Cities and urban areas subsidise rural areas. Glad we’re agreed on that and thanks for the example of one area subsidising another.

no it's hugely over exaggerated. if you rely at all on anything that is public and payed for by tax you are subsidized. every single one of us is subsidized in some form. that's just life.

John_Rambo wrote: »

True, good point. A lot are driving up from various parts of the country. They’d be better off heading in to the city, or towns close to them and supporting them.

most aren't though. most are from dublin.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Most of it’s local home-grown scum though. And most farm theft is other farmers or ends up in the hands of other farmers.

actually that is incorrect. dublin and other criminal gangs not from the areas make up the greater amount of crime.

John_Rambo wrote: »

City kids aren’t as reliant cars. They walk to bus stops, train stations, they walk and cycle more. Work it out.

incorrect, city kids are driven to school in huge amounts.

meeeeh

John_Rambo wrote: »

City kids aren’t as reliant cars. They walk to bus stops, train stations, they walk and cycle more. Work it out.

Obesity is the highest among kids in poorest areas. I presume you are talking only about middle class areas and everyone else doesn't matter.

jmayo

John_Rambo wrote: »

So, it?s not bullshyte then. Cities and urban areas subsidise rural areas. Glad we?re agreed on that and thanks for the example of one area subsidising another.

You always have subsidisation across various spheres.
It is fact of life.
You know the roads that some city folks complain about maintaining are also the ones they may use on their days out or maybe used by tourists who bring much needed money into the country.

John_Rambo wrote: »

I clearly said Cities, towns and Villages need to be supported and lived in. Throughout the country. Not just Dublin city. I may remind you that there?s more to Ireland outside the pale jMayo. Rural towns and villages are the backbone of rural Ireland and need to be supported.

Those rural towns and villages are dying in the main because everything is being centred around primarily Dublin and a few other cities.

John_Rambo wrote: »

True, good point. A lot are driving up from various parts of the country. They?d be better off heading in to the city, or towns close to them and supporting them.

Ah come on that is basically cr** and you damn well know it.
Most of those at any of the major Dublin area retail parks and massive shopping complexes are from the Dublin area.
Public transport doesn't cut it and good luck humping the new 50" tv or 10 bags of shopping home on the bus.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Most of it?s local home-grown scum though. And most farm theft is other farmers or ends up in the hands of other farmers.

Care to prove that about farmers ?

The most violent crimes are committed by non locals from large urban areas and sadly often from a particular ethnic group but lets not go there.
Case in point is the very violent attack on Tipperary family that was brought to an appeal.
All 7 were from Dublin.

John_Rambo wrote: »

City kids aren?t as reliant cars. They walk to bus stops, train stations, they walk and cycle more. Work it out.

Ever drive through South County Dublin of a school morning ?
Maybe it is different in Northside or Central Dublin, but the amount of traffic due to schools in South Dublin is huge.

John_Rambo

end of the road wrote: »

no it's hugely over exaggerated. if you rely at all on anything that is public and payed for by tax you are subsidized. every single one of us is subsidized in some form. that's just life.

It's not exaggerated. The figures are here in this thread for you to see.

end of the road wrote: »

most aren't though. most are from dublin.

Who told you that? Do you visit them a lot? I don't but I do notice the off ramps backed up travelling towards Dublin which would suggest a huge amount of people visiting them from outside the city.

end of the road wrote: »

actually that is incorrect. dublin and other criminal gangs not from the areas make up the greater amount of crime.

Wrong again. The biggest and most successful gang caught were Laois based and used people involved in farming to point out vulnerable targets. Other criminality like drink driving, public disorder, violence, fueds, vandalism, drugs, traffic etc.. all locals.

end of the road wrote: »

incorrect, city kids are driven to school in huge amounts.

Most of the kids in my school arrive on bikes, scooters, on foot or by train.

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

I live in a rural location where I pay for well and septic tank/filitration system so when city dwellers complain about paying towards upkeep of my local road I might equally ask why my taxes be used to help provide said city dwellers with water and sewage treatment.

A road that would have to be maintained regardless of you living there or not of course, a fact lost on many of the city dwellers complaining about those who want to live in rural areas. In fact the more people who live in rural areas the more it is supporting itself not the opposite because in reality the costs of maintaining roads etc does not change much if at all with an increase in people in an area. The roads have to be maintained, power lines have to be maintained etc regardless of the number of people living in an area. Also as pointed out and very much unlike people living in urban areas, people living in rural areas actually pay for their water and have been for years and same for their sewage.

John_Rambo wrote: »

It's not exaggerated. The figures are here in this thread for you to see.

Of course they are exaggerated by those with an anti-rural agenda. Also as above less people living rurally mean you are still spending money to maintain an area but its of much less benefit if there aren't people living there.

As for crime, most rural crime is committed by travellers and those coming out from cities don't even try to pretend its otherwise.

John_Rambo

Nox. Go to your Garda station at home and asks them where the Last 100 people arrested were from.

Most will be local. I promise you! As easy as it is to lay the blame of all evils on the cities, most rural crime is down to locals.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

Nox. Go to your Garda station at home and asks them where the Last 100 people arrested were from.

Most will be local. I promise you! As easy as it is to lay the blame of all evils on the cities, most rural crime is down to locals.

There is very very little crime in my area and anything that has happened as not been locals, trust me . Ask anyone and you will see that travellers are the most likely culprits.

John_Rambo

Brayan Tall Pup wrote: »

There is very very little crime in my area and anything that has happened as not been locals, trust me .

Of course, no domestic violence, sexual crimes or drunk drivers in Nox's parish. :rolleyes:

end of the road

John_Rambo wrote: »

It's not exaggerated. The figures are here in this thread for you to see.

it's exaggerated to prove an agenda. we are all subsidized in some form and we all have to get used to it.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Who told you that? Do you visit them a lot? I don't but I do notice the off ramps backed up travelling towards Dublin which would suggest a huge amount of people visiting them from outside the city.

actually they suggest traffic heading to dublin only. not where they are going in dublin.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Wrong again. The biggest and most successful gang caught were Laois based and used people involved in farming to point out vulnerable targets. Other criminality like drink driving, public disorder, violence, fueds, vandalism, drugs, traffic etc.. all locals.

not wrong but right. a lot of the big criminality comes from dublin and not far outside dublin based criminal gangs. there is local crime across the board that is a given.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Most of the kids in my school arrive on bikes, scooters, on foot or by train.

that's your school. and that's great, but unfortunately a lot of children arrive by car.

Inspector Coptoor

I sold my car 28 months ago.

Wife and I now have one car beteeen is.
She gets bus into work and walks home & I cycle in to work.

Car is used for grocery shopping & going home every now and again to the West of Ireland.

Can't say I miss it.

Tax was €700 per annum
Insurance - €600
NCT - €55
And that's before servicing, tires and fuel.

John_Rambo

end of the road wrote: »

it's exaggerated to prove an agenda. we are all subsidized in some form and we all have to get used to it..

Right! Nothing much anyone can do if you’re going to tell us the official tax stats are exaggerated!

end of the road wrote: »

actually they suggest traffic heading to dublin only. not where they are going in dublin.

The off ramp to Liffey Valley Shopping centre leads to Liffey Valley Shopping Centre.

end of the road wrote: »

not wrong but right. a lot of the big criminality comes from dublin and not far outside dublin based criminal gangs. there is local crime across the board that is a given.

This is a bit of a myth. Most crime committed is by locals. It’s typical of communities to point the finger elsewhere, but you’ll find it’s your own criminals with local knowledge. Take that poor 95 year old man in Tip the other night. Locals with local knowledge.

end of the road wrote: »

that's your school. and that's great, but unfortunately a lot of children arrive by car.

Some do. But in cities kids tend to cycle and walk more to school than in rural areas. Don't worry about it though. Kids walking and cycling to school in Dublin shouldn't bother you.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

Of course, no domestic violence, sexual crimes or drunk drivers in Nox's parish. :rolleyes:

What relevance do domestic violence and sexual crimes have to the discussion. I would have assumed you were referring to crimes which are caused by a more isolated location and lower Garda presence such as burglary, assault etc. As for drink driving, people tend to be left alone to go about their business unless they or taking the P*ss so the detections would be very low.

Banjaxed82

I grew up pretty much city centre Dublin. Never drove a car in my life til I had a kid at 25. 10 years and 2 more kids later and I'm never out of the fuucking thing.

Glenster

Chuchote wrote: »

I loved going to stay in the country. Farms, strange animals, riding donkeys, room for exploring incomparably better than the city…

You would have loved 10,000BC then mate.

Shabby workmanship

Banjaxed82, the problem there is the kids :-)

jmayo

Sosurface wrote: »

What proportion of fatal road accidents can be attributed to cyclists or any kind of bike users compared to cars?

Ahh FFS.
Where are people going with these comparisons.
It is like comparing numbers killed in once off road accidents against numbers killed in once off aircraft accidents.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Nox. Go to your Garda station at home and asks them where the Last 100 people arrested were from.

Most will be local. I promise you! As easy as it is to lay the blame of all
evils on the cities, most rural crime is down to locals.

Sadly they haven't been that successful in arresting some of the real violent criminals.

For instance the murderer of poor elderly widower, Mr Eddie Fitzmaurice, in 1998 in Bellaghy has never been apprehended and brought to justice.

Padraig Nally did more to avert crime in South Mayo North Galway in one afternoon than the local Garda? did in years.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Wrong again. The biggest and most successful gang caught were Laois based and used people involved in farming to point out vulnerable targets. Other criminality like drink driving, public disorder, violence, fueds, vandalism, drugs, traffic etc.. all locals.

Yes they were stealing to order and selling on to contractors or some other farmers.
A bit like the guy down the local pub in parts of Dublin offering a cheap laptop to his mates I guess.
And like everything they had inside knowledge from someone that had access to the farms.

But the most vicious assaults on isolated people, often elderly living alone, have been carried out by either urban dwellers or people now classed to be of a different ethnic background.
And yes there is crime ala drink driving, public disorder, vandalism, drugs, traffic in rural areas just like all over the bloody world.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Most of the kids in my school arrive on bikes, scooters, on foot or by train.

Bully for you and your school.
Maybe take a wander around Dublin or indeed most cities and towns at say 8.30 to 9am and notice how many cars have kids in them.
Then do a comparison between the traffic volumes during school term and holidays.

John_Rambo wrote: »

The off ramp to Liffey Valley Shopping centre leads to Liffey Valley Shopping Centre.

You do know that Lucan and Leixlip are to the west of Liffey valley ??
Are they now not classed as part of the great Dublin metropolis.
Would you like Lucan people to move inside the M50 perhaps ?

John_Rambo wrote: »

This is a bit of a myth. Most crime committed is by locals. It?s typical of communities to point the finger elsewhere, but you?ll find it?s your own criminals with local knowledge. Take that poor 95 year old man in Tip the other night. Locals with local knowledge.

Sadly there are criminals everywhere, but one has to admit that with the advent of motorways and better roads that city based criminal gangs have been marauding in a much more violent manner outside of their urban confines of late.

end of the road

John_Rambo wrote: »

The off ramp to Liffey Valley Shopping centre leads to Liffey Valley Shopping Centre.

that simply proves people are going to Liffey Valley Shopping centre. not where they are coming from.

John_Rambo wrote: »

This is a bit of a myth. Most crime committed is by locals. It’s typical of communities to point the finger elsewhere, but you’ll find it’s your own criminals with local knowledge. Take that poor 95 year old man in Tip the other night. Locals with local knowledge.

it's not a myth. most of the high profile gang crime is not by locals. a small part sure but not most of it. it's by criminal gangs based out of dublin and other cities who travel the country.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Some do. But in cities kids tend to cycle and walk more to school than in rural areas.

not really. they tend to get the bus or be driven as well just like in rural areas. some do walk and cycle.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Don't worry about it though. Kids walking and cycling to school in Dublin shouldn't bother you.

it does bother me as i live there but get stuck on a slow bus because most of the kids are been driven to school when they could get the bus. nobody should cycle it's a nucence.

John_Rambo

jmayo wrote: »

But the most vicious assaults on isolated people, often elderly living alone, have been carried out by either urban dwellers or people now classed to be of a different ethnic background.
And yes there is crime ala drink driving, public disorder, vandalism, drugs, traffic in rural areas just like all over the bloody world.

Most are actually locals, or familiacide.

jmayo wrote: »

Bully for you and your school.
Maybe take a wander around Dublin or indeed most cities and towns at say 8.30 to 9am and notice how many cars have kids in them.
Then do a comparison between the traffic volumes during school term and holidays.

Hmmm most older city kid will be out playing sports, scouts etc... at that hour, younger ones in bed. That's the case in my city, not sure what city you're seeing this in.

jmayo wrote: »

You do know that Lucan and Leixlip are to the west of Liffey valley ??
Are they now not classed as part of the great Dublin metropolis.
Would you like Lucan people to move inside the M50 perhaps ?

Ridiculous suggestion. Most country folk prefer outlet stores to city, you know this, stop being obtuse.

jmayo wrote: »

Sadly there are criminals everywhere, but one has to admit that with the advent of motorways and better roads that city based criminal gangs have been marauding in a much more violent manner outside of their urban confines of late.

Again, it's a common myth and it's easy to point the finger elsewhere, but any Garda will tell you 99% of crime is locals.

end of the road

John_Rambo wrote: »

Most are actually locals, or familiacide.

when it comes to serious crimes, most are the city criminal gangs traveling the country looking for easy targets.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Again, it's a common myth and it's easy to point the finger elsewhere, but any Garda will tell you 99% of crime is locals.

again, it's not a myth and any garda won't tell you it's locals depending on the crime.

Sosurface

I think you'll find jmayo my comparison was perfectly valid given you implied it was "idiot cyclists" at fault on the roads. You then made your own nonsensical comparison.

As a group of road users, who is by far more dangerous and causes the vast vast majority of road fatalities. Is it:
a) Cars
b) Motorcyclists
c) Cyclists

I'll give you a minute.

Shabby workmanship

Surely Cars?

Sosurface

Shabby workmanship wrote: »

Surely Cars?

Check out the big brain on Brad!

Glenster

end of the road wrote: »

when it comes to serious crimes, most are the city criminal gangs traveling the country looking for easy targets.

False. cute country hoors commit 99% of the crime in this country.

Shabby workmanship

The country folk get blamed for everything..except in GAA...The Dubs Wing forward gets blamed for everything then!

jackofalltrades

jmayo wrote: »

But the thing is the 2 bed apartment in Dublin city centre may be worth more in value than a 4/5 bed house in rural Mayo or Roscommon.

Solely by virtue of the cost of the land the property was built on.
The 4/5 bed house probably cost more to build and it's occupants probably have a higher disposable income due to having a lower mortgage/rental payments.
Also the cost of providing services for the 2 bed apartment is much lower.
And yet the person in the 2 bed apartment pays more in tax.
It goes against the idea that taxation should be equitable.
It also encourages an unsustainable way of living.

end of the road wrote: »

it's exaggerated to prove an agenda.

Brayan Tall Pup wrote: »

Of course they are exaggerated by those with an anti-rural agenda.

The CSO's figures are exaggerated :eek:, I look forward to reading your detailed analysis.

end of the road

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Solely by virtue of the cost of the land the property was built on.
The 4/5 bed house probably cost more to build and it's occupants probably have a higher disposable income due to having a lower mortgage/rental payments.
Also the cost of providing services for the 2 bed apartment is much lower.
And yet the person in the 2 bed apartment pays more in tax.

because it's based on the value of the property. that is how the government decided to implement it. it could have been done on wage income but that wouldn't have been supported either.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

It goes against the idea that taxation should be equitable.

it's job isn't to be equitable, it was introduced as a bank gambling debt tax.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

It also encourages an unsustainable way of living.

it really doesn't. all it does is screw more money out of people who haven't got it.

jackofalltrades

jackofalltrades wrote: »

It also encourages an unsustainable way of living.

That word is a pet hate of mine as it's just thrown out there as if it means something. What exactly is unsustainable about living in a rural area?

jackofalltrades

Brayan Tall Pup wrote: »

That word is a pet hate of mine as it's just thrown out there as if it means something. What exactly is unsustainable about living in a rural area?

I think you need to go back and explain how the CSO figures have been exaggerated, before I'll answer any more of your questions.
That's quite a big claim to make and not backup.

Kintarō Hattori

John_Rambo wrote: »

I think it’s just an internet forum thing. People imagining themselves as lonesome types. Truth is we’re social primates, always have been, always will be. We thrive in communities.

This social isolation that people seem to yearn for is not healthy.

Not really- some people really do look for a rural life style.

I grew up on a quiet estate in Kildare. You were 30 mins from Dublin city centre on the bus yet a five minute walk to the countryside. Having grown up I moved to Dublin city centre, lived there for 9 years before buying a house on an estate in North County Dublin.
The aim now, in a few years will be to move out to the countryside, to a bungalow or similar with a fair sized garden. We don't want to live up a mountain or on a bog in the middle of nowhere but definitely somewhere where your nearest neighbour isn't within an arms length of your fence.

meeeeh

This thread is prime example of I can't imagine some people don't want to live exactly like me so I will badger them with my lifestyle choices and demand taxes for them. All that while I expect to live in 3 bed semi d in city centre and have perfect public transport and ban cars everywhere.

Yeah whatever.

John_Rambo

meeeeh wrote: »

This thread is prime example of I can't imagine some people don't want to live exactly like me so I will badger them with my lifestyle choices and demand taxes for them. All that while I expect to live in 3 bed semi d in city centre and have perfect public transport and ban cars everywhere.

Yeah whatever.

I know it's very fashionable to get offended these days and you're obviously a social fashionista! But can you show me where someone wanted to ban cars everywhere?

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

I know it's very fashionable to get offended these days and you're obviously a social fashionista! But can you show me where someone wanted to ban cars everywhere?

Well you want to stop people living in rural areas that's for sure. I couldn't give a damn where people want to live, if you want to live in a city centre or an estate go right ahead if that's where you want to live and enjoy it fair play but I have zero tolerance of those who make this choice telling me I have to do the same or live in a town etc when I and many want to live in a rural home.

meeeeh

John_Rambo wrote: »

I know it's very fashionable to get offended these days and you're obviously a social fashionista! But can you show me where someone wanted to ban cars everywhere?

hyperbole
hʌɪˈpəːbəli/Submit
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

BTW to be offended one has to actually care. I just find it tiresome.

John_Rambo

Brayan Tall Pup wrote: »

Well you want to stop people living in rural areas that's for sure. I couldn't give a damn where people want to live, if you want to live in a city centre or an estate go right ahead if that's where you want to live and enjoy it fair play but I have zero tolerance of those who make this choice telling me I have to do the same or live in a town etc when I and many want to live in a rural home.

Nonsense of the highest order.

The discussion is about cars. Currently the dispersed rural style of living is making us car dependent.

Not good for rural towns and villages that are dying on their feet.

Not good for the environment.

Not good for health.

You may not give a damn where people live, but others do.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

Nonsense of the highest order.

The discussion is about cars. Currently the dispersed rural style of living is making us car dependent.

Not good for rural towns and villages that are dying on their feet.

Not good for the environment.

Not good for health.

You may not give a damn where people live, but others do.

I'd disagree that rural towns and villages are dying on their feet. My local town is doing very well with new cafes and restaurants opening, new (locally owned) supermarket massively upgraded, local amenities being upgraded etc and where is most of the business coming from? Yes you guessed it the rural areas around the town.

Its the bigger county towns that have been bypassed by motorways etc or are too far from employment centres to commute that are really suffering. People wanting to live rurally has nothing to to with these towns being in decline though, failure of the government to force jobs new jobs away from Dublin and into these town or at least close to them is what's causing their decline.

Also what's the problem with being car dependant, yes you have listed off a few nonsense reasons like bad for health which is ridiculous. Getting a bus is so much more exercise than driving somewhere isn't it :rolleyes:

Atoms for Peace

The transport system here is completely Dublin centric, relying on puplic to get anywhere outside the main cities is a complete faff, which is likely to only get worse given the state of bus eireann.

Glenster

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

The transport system here is completely Dublin centric, relying on puplic to get anywhere outside the main cities is a complete faff, which is likely to only get worse given the state of bus eireann.

That's because people who want to go from Tipperary to Galway aren't important.

jackofalltrades

meeeeh wrote: »

BTW to be offended one has to actually care. I just find it tiresome.

It's so obvious that this discussion is offending you.
If you didn't care and found it tiresome you wouldn't bother posting here.
You obviously can't take any criticism of the rural way of life but can't argue against the points being made either.

Brayan Tall Pup wrote: »

Its the bigger county towns that have been bypassed by motorways etc or are too far from employment centres to commute that are really suffering. People wanting to live rurally has nothing to to with these towns being in decline though, failure of the government to force jobs new jobs away from Dublin and into these town or at least close to them is what's causing their decline.

So in your last post you attacked the idea of a choice being taken away from you.
And now your saying that the government should force companies to setup in rural areas taking that choice away from business owners.
Bit hypocritical don't you think.
The government can't force businesses to setup where they don't want to, we don't live in a communist/fascist state.

Also what's the problem with being car dependant...

Increased CO2 emissions.
Increased pollution.
Increased congestion.
Increased road deaths.

jackofalltrades

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I

The government can't force businesses to setup where they don't want to, we don't live in a communist/fascist state.

Well they can (and do) if they wish. For instance they can heavily incentivise them through tax breaks, funding etc to locate away from Dublin or they can deny planning permission or many other way they can say setup else where without actually saying it directly.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Increased CO2 emissions.
Increased pollution.
Increased congestion.
Increased road deaths.

Road deaths have pretty much bottomed out and have significantly reduced in recent years with far higher car ownership so that's a dead duck of an argument to begin with.

CO2 and pollution, who cares really especially as Ireland's contribution is meaningless compared to else where in the world. Congestion can be eased without preventing people driving, especially those who want to live rurally so a car is vital. For example motorways and bypasses around towns and cities, industrial estates setting up away from cities so those working there don't have to contend with the city traffic on their commute. One of the biggest of all would getting rid of fixed working hours for those who don't need them (lots of companies already do this but many more need to follow) and encourage working from home. Spreading out the start and finish times of people more would do wonders for congestion as would more people working from home.

Glenster

Brayan Tall Pup wrote: »

Road deaths have pretty much bottomed out and have significantly reduced in recent years with far higher car ownership so that's a dead duck of an argument to begin with.

CO2 and pollution, who cares really especially as Ireland's contribution is meaningless compared to else where in the world. Congestion

There you go guys.

Road deaths and pollution don't matter.

That's you told.

meeeeh

jackofalltrades wrote: »

It's so obvious that this discussion is offending you.
If you didn't care and found it tiresome you wouldn't bother posting here.
You obviously can't take any criticism of the rural way of life but can't argue against the points being made either.

I thought this was about cars. BTW do you know how fun is it to drive around in a car (well 4x4) with five litre engine? One almost feels sorry that diesel cars are in the out and we'll have to pick something more sensible. Oh well such is life.

jackofalltrades

Brayan Tall Pup wrote: »

Well they can (and do) if they wish. For instance they can heavily incentivise them through tax breaks, funding etc to locate away from Dublin or they can deny planning permission or many other way they can say setup else where without actually saying it directly.

Tax breaks and providing funding does not equal forcing.
And a planning authority cannot refuse an application based on a notions of rural Ireland needing more jobs.

Road deaths have pretty much bottomed out and have significantly reduced in recent years with far higher car ownership so that's a dead duck of an argument to begin with.

Road deaths here increased last year but that's not the point.
Public transport is significantly safer than private transport, more people in cars equals more deaths.

CO2 and pollution, who cares really especially as Ireland's contribution is meaningless compared to else where in the world.

My point was private transport is more polluting and emits higher CO2 per passenger mile.
That points still stands and saying who cares doesn't negate that.

Congestion can be eased without preventing people driving, especially those who want to live rurally so a car is vital. For example motorways and bypasses around towns and cities, industrial estates setting up away from cities so those working there don't have to contend with the city traffic on their commute. One of the biggest of all would getting rid of fixed working hours for those who don't need them (lots of companies already do this but many more need to follow) and encourage working from home. Spreading out the start and finish times of people more would do wonders for congestion as would more people working from home.

All you are doing is listing solutions to be problem that being car dependant increases congestion.

John_Rambo

Glenster wrote: »

There you go guys.

Road deaths and pollution don't matter.

That's you told.

Along with CSO figures are exaggerated and drunk driving isn’t really a crime.

Nox - Ross O'Carroll Kelly of farmers sons.

end of the road

jackofalltrades wrote: »

It's so obvious that this discussion is offending you.
If you didn't care and found it tiresome you wouldn't bother posting here.
You obviously can't take any criticism of the rural way of life but can't argue against the points being made either.

he has no need to. the so called points being made are so easy to debunk a child could do it. the criticisms of the rural way of life are over exaggerated in terms of the actual issues.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Increased CO2 emissions.
Increased pollution.
Increased congestion.
Increased road deaths.

not as much pollution and CO2 emissions as the amount of lories on the road cause collectively. there is no doubt we are too road dependant but bullying people into your lifestyle choice isn't going to sort that issue.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

not as much pollution and CO2 emissions as the amount of lories on the road cause collectively. there is no doubt we are too road dependant but bullying people into your lifestyle choice isn't going to sort that issue.

Air travel (and freight) are a major contributor to CO2 emissions also but you won't hear many asking for that to be curtailed (nor do I want it curtailed either).

jackofalltrades

meeeeh wrote: »

BTW do you know how fun is it to drive around in a car (well 4x4) with five litre engine?
One almost feels sorry that diesel cars are in the out and we'll have to pick something more sensible. Oh well such is life.

Not a five litre engine, but I've driven around in 2.8 to 4 litre cars. And yes they were good craic.

Jamsiek

Brayan Tall Pup wrote: »

I'd disagree that rural towns and villages are dying on their feet. My local town is doing very well with new cafes and restaurants opening, new (locally owned) supermarket massively upgraded, local amenities being upgraded etc and where is most of the business coming from? Yes you guessed it the rural areas around the town.

Its the bigger county towns that have been bypassed by motorways etc or are too far from employment centres to commute that are really suffering. People wanting to live rurally has nothing to to with these towns being in decline though, failure of the government to force jobs new jobs away from Dublin and into these town or at least close to them is what's causing their decline.

First of all I disagree that bigger towns are suffering more than small villages. In fact I would say the increased car usage is leading to people opting to drive to bigger towns for more variety in shops, bars, etc.

Secondly, simply forcing jobs into small towns has proven to be a failed exercise. If the population is not there, the demand for work will not be there. What company would want to relocate there?

Brayan Tall Pup wrote: »

Also what's the problem with being car dependant, yes you have listed off a few nonsense reasons like bad for health which is ridiculous. Getting a bus is so much more exercise than driving somewhere isn't it :rolleyes:

Generally car dependency is something governments around the world are trying to reduce as countries make promise to reduce emissions, etc. From what I hear, rural bus services into towns seem to be on the rise.

Chuchote

Jamsiek wrote: »

Simply forcing jobs into small towns has proven to be a failed exercise. If the population is not there, the demand for work will not be there. What company would want to relocate there?

A few years ago I saw a photo of the school class of two years earlier in Gleann Cholm Chille. All but two of the children were now abroad.