Should the M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy motorway be built? [project approved]

Golfer50

Just to let you know.
Approximately 90 percent of the day was occupied by Cork Co. Council clarifying route choice etc.
Some people were allowed to speak at the start if they were unable to attend again, but that was only a side show ( Cork Ex quotes)
There was no input from the M28 steering group until comments on the applicants submissions (above) are allowed today.
The inspector seems very level headed unlike some contributors and I know she she has already visited homes in the Rochestown area to experience directly the situation now.
I think people should let this run for better or worse. Uninformed comments wouldn't be allowed at the hearing, I do'nt see why they should be allowed here.

Kevwoody

Golfer50 wrote: »

Just to let you know.
Approximately 90 percent of the day was occupied by Cork Co. Council clarifying route choice etc.
Some people were allowed to speak at the start if they were unable to attend again, but that was only a side show ( Cork Ex quotes)
There was no input from the M28 steering group until comments on the applicants submissions (above) are allowed today.
The inspector seems very level headed unlike some contributors and I know she she has already visited homes in the Rochestown area to experience directly the situation now.
I think people should let this run for better or worse. Uninformed comments wouldn't be allowed at the hearing, I do'nt see why they should be allowed here.

Well then if uninformed comments are not allowed at the hearing, that's the "Steering Group " ruled out of the process.

Aontachtoir

Golfer50 wrote: »

I think people should let this run for better or worse. Uninformed comments wouldn't be allowed at the hearing, I do'nt see why they should be allowed here.

I think we have to let it run, we don't have a choice. However, if we let it run and ABP grants permission to the motorway, will the M28 steering group accept this, or will they try and get the decision thrown out? Furthermore, based off the comments published in the Examiner, it seems like being uninformed is no obstacle to participating in the hearing, which is unfortunate.

AugustusMinimus

Some of the stuff put out by the Steering Group is sheer lies in attempt to get people on their side.

People in the area I’ve talked to don’t have much knowledge of the scheme and we’re basically taking the Groups words at face value.

Some of the stuff put across especially in regards on the effects of local traffic in the area is absurd. Dividing communities? The road is already there. This scheme may actually aid in both traffic and pedestrian movements at a local level.

DoubleJoe7

marno21 wrote: »

More detail on the whinging today. I presume these people who live in Maryborough Hill cycle around rather than these death trap polluting cars?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/180m-cork-ringaskiddy-motorway-would-split-communities-oral-hearing-told-462413.html

People who have to live with the consequences of this have a right to voice their objections and concerns without the likes of you accusing them of 'whinging' from behind your keyboard miles away.

The comments about the noise pollution are particularly pertinent.

marno21

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

People who have to live with the consequences of this have a right to voice their objections and concerns without the likes of you accusing them of 'whinging' from behind your keyboard miles away.

The comments about the noise pollution are particularly pertinent.

People have a right to voice their concerns. Their concerns were addressed and they were informed that their concerns have been alleviated. Of course for some people, like Harrington, this doesn't suit his agenda so it turns to lies and scaremongering. Read the EIS, it explains all of this

Noise pollution won't go up. Same traffic, same route, same speed limit.

marno21

Did Harrington suggest routing this via Cork Airport at the Oral Hearing today "in order to connect to another strategic infrastructure"?

Very weak argument if true

boardsuser1

I didn't get a chance to read over any of the detail regarding the meeting nor could i attend due to work.

Ger Harrington is only trying to frighten people into getting his own way plus to make a name for himself, is he rubbing shoulders with Jerry Buttimer for a potential future career in politics?

As for Buttimer, was he at the Ambassador Hotel?

Baldilocks

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

People who have to live with the consequences of this have a right to voice their objections and concerns without the likes of you accusing them of 'whinging' from behind your keyboard miles away.

The comments about the noise pollution are particularly pertinent.

I have to live with the consequences, and I CANNOT WAIT for the road to be upgraded!!! The steering group are claiming to represent 10,000 people - it's a stretch (to put it mildly), I'd be gobsmacked if there were more than 2,000 people who were with them.
At the end of the day, the road is being widened from 3 lanes to 4, and some of the junctions are being moved (junctions that should never have been there in the first place).

The noise and pollution arguments are smoke and mirrors from the genii in the steering group. In the short term, they will be alleviated because the road will be free flowing, and not bumper to bumper as they are at the moment, in the long term, vehicles will be electric (more efficient - Tesla are about to release their HGV).
The nonsense about house prices suffering is a complete fabrication - they will increase when the new road opens as a result of the traffic situation being ameliorated.

zetalambda

marno21 wrote: »

The fun begins today

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/vital-that-180m-cork-ringaskiddy-motorway-gets-green-light-462352.html

"Increased noise and noxious gas emissions"

With electric vehicles set to become the norm, the opposite will be the case.

DoubleJoe7

The electric car argument is the biggest red herring of the lot. We're a couple of decades away from electric becoming the norm, the uptake levels are pitiful and there is little appetite in government to properly encourage its uptake.

boardsuser1

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

The electric car argument is the biggest red herring of the lot. We're a couple of decades away from electric becoming the norm, the uptake levels are pitiful and there is little appetite in government to properly encourage its uptake.

The rental of the batteries is the biggest turn off for me personally.

marno21

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

The electric car argument is the biggest red herring of the lot. We're a couple of decades away from electric becoming the norm, the uptake levels are pitiful and there is little appetite in government to properly encourage its uptake.

The growth in electric car usage will counter the growth in emissions from total traffic growth on the M28. The short journey from Carrigaline to Cork is also very conducive for electric cars

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

Did Harrington suggest routing this via Cork Airport at the Oral Hearing today "in order to connect to another strategic infrastructure"?

Very weak argument if true

Kinsale Roundabout can barely handle the traffic on it at the moment. Would be a disaster if all Carrigaline and Ringaskiddy traffic would have to use it.

Most traffic would still use the old road as it would be both short and faster due to congestion.

DoubleJoe7

marno21 wrote: »

The growth in electric car usage will counter the growth in emissions from total traffic growth on the M28. The short journey from Carrigaline to Cork is also very conducive for electric cars

It's proposed to have this built by 2023. There isn't a hope that electric vehicles will have had enough uptake by then to counter growth in emissions from total traffic growth in any meaningful way.

zetalambda

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

The electric car argument is the biggest red herring of the lot. We're a couple of decades away from electric becoming the norm, the uptake levels are pitiful and there is little appetite in government to properly encourage its uptake.

:eek:

The steering groups strongest card is the "health" one but it's complete nonsense! The shift to electric has already started albeit slowly but the pace of change will accelerate over the next decade and this gradual change will firstly negate the increase of noise and fumes they say it will increase and then cause it to decrease.

boardsuser1

Former Green Party TD Dan Boyle has now jumped on the M28 steering group bandwagon.

And you’d wonder where the emissions stats came from :rolleyes:


Having just looked at their page it seems attendance numbers were so small they called off getting a bus to bring them there.

Golfer50

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Some of the stuff put out by the Steering Group is sheer lies in attempt to get people on their side . . . Dividing communities? The road is already there

I'm sure ABP will not take " lies" on board so you can relax there.
Regarding your second point, you obviously weren't at the hearing today to hear the contribution from an elderly rep from Ringaskiddy residents where exactly that is to happen to her community under the proposed scheme.
She very ably described the dismantling of their community over 40 yrs . . . I won't go on. It may have been lies.

marno21

Golfer50 wrote: »

I'm sure ABP will not take " lies" on board so you can relax there.
Regarding your second point, you obviously weren't at the hearing today to hear the contribution from an elderly rep from Ringaskiddy residents where exactly that is to happen to her community under the proposed scheme.
She very ably described the dismantling of their community over 40 yrs . . . I won't go on. It may have been lies.

The Steering Group are worried only about the section north of Carrs Hill. This woman's story is nothing to do with their aims.

The M28 is going through fields in Ringaskiddy. Ringaskiddy is no longer a rural village, the M28 is not the cause of that. That's the price of development.

Golfer50

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Former Green Party TD Dan Boyle has now jumped on the M28 steering group bandwagon . . . it seems attendance numbers were so small they called off getting a bus to bring them there.

I don't know where Dan Boyle came from but he did make one valid point regarding the tunnel, it being closed so regularly for maintenance and puddles of water. Hardly the best route for such vital infrastructure?

The room was packed yesterday with people sitting on the floor. So much so that on one occasion the safety aspect was raised from the "floor".

boardsuser1

Golfer50 wrote: »

I don't know where Dan Boyle came from but he did make one valid point regarding the tunnel, it being closed so regularly for maintenance and puddles of water. Hardly the best route for such vital infrastructure?

The room was packed yesterday with people sitting on the floor. So much so that on one occasion the safety aspect was raised from the "floor".

Boyle is only trying to rebuild his reputation for another shot at Dail Eireann probably.

The tunnel is a valid point i admit, it's something to do with a blunder during its construction i think.

Does anyone have exact numbers on the attendance?

They went in cars according to the facebook page.

I'll have to drop Jerry Buttimer a tweet to see what exactly it is that he wants to achieve.

Golfer50

zetalambda wrote: »

:eek:

The steering groups strongest card is the "health" one but it's complete nonsense! .

I'd love you to elaborate on this. If you have evidence that motor vehicle emissions are not dangerous to human health, I urge you to bring this to the notice of the hearing as soon as possible.

marno21

Golfer50 wrote: »

I don't know where Dan Boyle came from but he did make one valid point regarding the tunnel, it being closed so regularly for maintenance and puddles of water. Hardly the best route for such vital infrastructure?

The room was packed yesterday with people sitting on the floor. So much so that on one occasion the safety aspect was raised from the "floor".

Tunnel closures are still an issue if the route goes via Ballygarvan or Ballinhassig. Tunnel closures don't seem to affect the operation of Dublin Port via the Port Tunnel very often, and most M28 traffic is outside of tunnel closure hours.

marno21

Golfer50 wrote: »

I'd love you to elaborate on this. If you have evidence that motor vehicle emissions are not dangerous to human health, I urge you to bring this to the notice of the hearing as soon as possible.

If they are a major issue for you, why didn't you object to the construction of the existing N28 Sli Carrigdhoun back in 1995?

Golfer50

marno21 wrote: »

If they are a major issue for you, why didn't you object to the construction of the existing N28 Sli Carrigdhoun back in 1995?

Ohhhh, your negativity
Let me rephrase your question.
Did you object to the construction of the existing N28 Sli Carrigdhoun back in 1995?
Yes, I was actively engaged at the time to ensure the best possible results for myself and my neighbours. Promises were made and broken, trees were planted and cut down, predicted traffic numbers were far exceeded, etc etc

It is as a result of this extensive and bitter experience that I am not so trusting this time around.

You regularly refer to the present EIS as if it were some kind of bible and beyond reproach. Let me assure you that there were many flaws in this document. Some of these were very graphically shown today by a barrister on behalf of a Ringaskiddy resident.

Golfer50

marno21 wrote: »

Tunnel closures are still an issue if the route goes via Ballygarvan or Ballinhassig. Tunnel closures don't seem to affect the operation of Dublin Port via the Port Tunnel very often, and most M28 traffic is outside of tunnel closure hours.

As you do not use the route too often you may not be aware of the frequent closures of the Cork tunnel for "maintenance". I believe the Cork tunnel closures are far more frequent than other Irish ones.
The route via Ballygarvan etc would open up a possible link to the proposed northern ring road and Limerick motorway.

boardsuser1

Eh???????????????????????

https://twitter.com/jerrybuttimer/status/928331618175025152

Golfer50

Almost every speaker I heard objecting to the proposed route expressed the same sentiments. Objectors to this proposal are NOT objecting to a motorway to Ringaskiddy.

zetalambda

Golfer50 wrote: »

I'd love you to elaborate on this. If you have evidence that motor vehicle emissions are not dangerous to human health, I urge you to bring this to the notice of the hearing as soon as possible.

I think you misunderstood. I'm not saying that petrol and diesel fumes don't cause major health problems and deaths. This motorway will not lead to any great increase in noise or air pollution and in time as more electric vehicles use the road, these will both decrease. Perhaps the local residents should all give up smoking and trade their cars in for bikes if they are so worried about air pollution.

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

The tunnel is a valid point i admit, it's something to do with a blunder during its construction i think.

The primary reason for all the maintenance is because of the volume of traffic that's using the tunnel. They envisaged that about 25,000 vehicles per day would use the tunnel which was surpassed a long time ago.

Golfer50 wrote: »

Almost every speaker I heard objecting to the proposed route expressed the same sentiments. Objectors to this proposal are NOT objecting to a motorway to Ringaskiddy.

Just not in their back yards!

Limerick74

Not as busy today by all accounts with approximately 40 residents and their advisors. Still no cross examination or questions yet. This format will likely ensure the hearing goes on until end of next week.