Should the M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy motorway be built? [project approved]

Golfer50

marno21 wrote: »

Golfer50, not sure if I asked you this before..

Can I ask what your objections are please?

We had a chat back at post 102.

Golfer50

marno21 wrote: »

Regarding the oral hearing; I'd have trouble justifying taking a day off work and a return N20 trip for it.

Do you think it would be just a one day affair?

marno21

Golfer50 wrote: »

Do you think it would be just a one day affair?

It'll likely go beyond a day if there's a good amount of submissions alright.

DylanGLC

I would go as I am living in the area so would be directly affected by it (my only issue with it really is the loss of the slip road onto it on Maryborough Hill), but the M28 Steering Group Facebook page is bad enough to read, let alone hear in person..

kub

DylanGLC wrote: »

I would go as I am living in the area so would be directly affected by it (my only issue with it really is the loss of the slip road onto it on Maryborough Hill), but the M28 Steering Group Facebook page is bad enough to read, let alone hear in person..

Are you aware that you will still be able to use a new slip road that will be constructed further up the Mulcon Valley and it will be a lot safer as well?

AugustusMinimus

kub wrote: »

DylanGLC wrote: »

I would go as I am living in the area so would be directly affected by it (my only issue with it really is the loss of the slip road onto it on Maryborough Hill), but the M28 Steering Group Facebook page is bad enough to read, let alone hear in person..

Are you aware that you will still be able to use a new slip road that will be constructed further up the Mulcon Valley and it will be a lot safer as well?

And the new junction includes all movements including coming off the N28 to access Maryborough which you cannot do at the moment.

DylanGLC

kub wrote: »

Are you aware that you will still be able to use a new slip road that will be constructed further up the Mulcon Valley and it will be a lot safer as well?

Where exactly do you get onto that?

marno21

DylanGLC wrote: »

Where exactly do you get onto that?

A new full Interchange at the top of Carrs Hill where the current N28 merges with the old Carrigaline Road out of Douglas.

There will be a new link Road down to Maryborough to access this Interchange.

All 4 movements will be available at this Interchange, so in contrast to the current Maryborough slip, this also provides access from the M28; along with access to the M28 towards Carrigaline

DylanGLC

marno21 wrote: »

A new full Interchange at the top of Carrs Hill where the current N28 merges with the old Carrigaline Road out of Douglas.

There will be a new link Road down to Maryborough to access this Interchange.

All 4 movements will be available at this Interchange, so in contrast to the current Maryborough slip, this also provides access from the M28; along with access to the M28 towards Carrigaline

Thank you for that information I don't know why but it is kind of difficult to find (real) information the project at times.. If this gets planning in December, when is construction expected to begin?

marno21

DylanGLC wrote: »

Thank you for that information I don't know why but it is kind of difficult to find (real) information the project at times.. If this gets planning in December, when is construction expected to begin?

There's lots of information on www.n28cork-ringaskiddy.com, on the homepage and under Public Display. A lot of information that's valid and not full of the misinformation on the Steering Group page.

Construction would be late 2019 at the earliest. Likely later because if this is approved it'll probably be appealed.

AugustusMinimus

This is the biggest issue. The steering group are putting so much misinformation out there that people don’t know what’s what.

This scheme will dramatically improve traffic in the Maryborough Hill area.

Middle Man

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This is the biggest issue. The steering group are putting so much misinformation out there that people don’t know what’s what.

This scheme will dramatically improve traffic in the Maryborough Hill area.

Well let's hope the heartstrings become strings (with the shredder) after ABP's decision.

Golfer50

I'm sure the ABP inspector is well able to distinguish misinformation from spin.

I heard today that the hotel room for the oral hearing is booked for three days the first week and the same the following week if necessary. I don't know what interested parties will be able to attend on that basis, given work commitments etc

boardsuser1

From 96FM on 24/10/2017.

Listen from 27 minutes onwards, i'd be interested in the opinions of what Buttimer said in this piece.

https://soundcloud.com/opinionline96/the-opinion-line-2017-10-24-your-free-daily-podcast-is-here?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=facebook

marno21

The Oral Hearing will sort all this mess out hopefully.

Buttimer tells us that there was no alternative routes proposed. There was 4 proposed, all of which were rejected on cost or uselessness grounds. There is one obvious correct route to use and this is it. He tells us he's not against the M28. He has a funny way of showing it when he pulls out the Steering Group card

Harrington has gotten to the stage where he has no facts to back him up and now is just telling lies about people having their house CPOd and waiting in fear of the diggers. This kind of rubbish and fearmongering is why there was 1000 cars at the Rochestown Park Hotel, he'd be better off if they didn't come to the Oral Hearing for the exposure of it all. Of course it's only for the 4000 trucks a day coming from the Port also. No one in Carrigaline, Shanbally or Ringaskiddy itself, nor all the people who work in Ringaskiddy will benefit.

This has become personal and its quite sad now.

Golfer50

marno21 wrote: »

Harrington has gotten to the stage where he has no facts to back him up and now is just telling lies . . . . .

This has become personal and its quite sad now.

Agreed

Golfer50

marno21 wrote: »

The Oral Hearing will sort all this mess out hopefully.

Buttimer tells us that there was no alternative routes proposed. There was 4 proposed, all of which were rejected on cost or uselessness grounds. There is one obvious correct route to use and this is it..

Hopefully the Oral Hearing WILL sort this mess out.
It is very interesting that the Board has requested the applicant to " provide a robust justification for the choice of corridor . ... .In particular justification for the routing of the on-line section through a significant residential area . . .whereby the present operation on the interchange will remain unchanged . ." Presumably referring to the fact that Bloomfield is not to be upgraded.
Obviously someone in high places has the same concerns as I have that the route chosen was actually the easiest route and may not actually be the best one.

The possible routes were measured using a set of criteria. One of the chief criteria was the impact on the existing N28, human and otherwise. The "experts" in their wisdom then chose the existing N28 to be the best route! Completely illogical. This is the one route which has the most detrimental effect on the existing N28 environment completely at odds with their own criteria.

marno21

Golfer50 wrote: »

Hopefully the Oral Hearing WILL sort this mess out.
It is very interesting that the Board has requested the applicant to " provide a robust justification for the choice of corridor . ... .In particular justification for the routing of the on-line section through a significant residential area . . .whereby the present operation on the interchange will remain unchanged . ." Presumably referring to the fact that Bloomfield is not to be upgraded.
Obviously someone in high places has the same concerns as I have that the route chosen was actually the easiest route and may not actually be the best one.

The possible routes were measured using a set of criteria. One of the chief criteria was the impact on the existing N28, human and otherwise. The "experts" in their wisdom then chose the existing N28 to be the best route! Completely illogical. This is the one route which has the most detrimental effect on the existing N28 environment completely at odds with their own criteria.

The existing N28 at Carrs Hill and further down towards Bloomfield is a mess every morning and evening at peak times. It's also liable to accidents.

The existing junction at Carrs Hill and the slip roads aren't fit for purpose, which is why a new interchange is proposed at Carrs Hill to allow for all movements.

The route corridor was chosen after 5 routes were investigated and the best chosen. It was chosen because it connects directly with the N40 at a freeflow interchange. It was chosen also because there is no other logical route from Carrigaline to Cork, and if you go to Ballinhassig you'd be building a motorway which won't be used and the existing cars, and trucks I might add, will still use the existing N28.

As for this stuff about the Port etc, the N28 has been in planning now since the early 2000s. The "motorway" part is simply blue signs and no chance of anyone building houses or shopping centres on it. The road will have a limit of 100km/h.

The EIS states that the M28 will not have long term negative impacts on the area. It does however state that there will be long term positive impacts on the area. No more fumes due to trucks idling. Significantly improved access to Rochestown.

The reason for the "robust justification of route corridor" is likely because that's what all the complains are about, because the Steering Group told them to suggest the motorway go via Ballinhassig. Non runner.

Golfer50

I agree that the present road is not fit for the existing volume of traffic.
I did read in the EIA however that 50pc of Carrigaline traffic would use the possible alternative routes. Also, if an alternative route was chosen, and you don't want trucks to use the existing n28, you just have to make a regulation and put up a big sign!!

Aontachtoir

Golfer50 wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

The Oral Hearing will sort all this mess out hopefully.

Buttimer tells us that there was no alternative routes proposed. There was 4 proposed, all of which were rejected on cost or uselessness grounds. There is one obvious correct route to use and this is it..

Hopefully the Oral Hearing WILL sort this mess out.
It is very interesting that the Board has requested the applicant to " provide a robust justification for the choice of corridor . ... .In particular justification for the routing of the on-line section through a significant residential area . . .whereby the present operation on the interchange will remain unchanged . ." Presumably referring to the fact that Bloomfield is not to be upgraded.
Obviously someone in high places has the same concerns as I have that the route chosen was actually the easiest route and may not actually be the best one.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the most basic parts of these hearings - regardless of the degree or nature of opposition to the project - getting the applicant to justify why the route in question was chosen? Putting that question to the Council is not evidence that ABP think the proposed route is not the right one - it's just ABP doing their job.

Furthermore, I can't agree with you that the M28 planners ignored their own guidelines. Every route proposed had its own advantages and drawbacks. The route which had the greatest advantages and fewest drawbacks was the one submitted to ABP. It's not perfect, but it wasn't arbitrarily chosen, and it's the best option of the bunch.

As a resident of Douglas with family out in Currabinny, I can't wait for this road to be built.

Golfer50

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the most basic parts of these hearings - regardless of the degree or nature of opposition to the project - getting the applicant to justify why the route in question was chosen? Putting that question to the Council is not evidence that ABP think the proposed route is not the right one - it's just ABP doing their job.

Furthermore, I can't agree with you that the M28 planners ignored their own guidelines. .

Aontaim leat on the first point but if you read what I refer to is that the applicant has been requested to justify the route, given that Bloomfield is staying as it is towards the tunnel . . . and Belfast of course!

Perhaps due regard wasn't given to the impending Limerick motorway and Cork northern ring road either.

The planners have in fact ignored their own guidelines regarding noise levels in this EIA but more specifically re the route chosen, It does not match their own criteria as outlined in their own document.

I'm not overly hopeful here, as I know a few million has already been spent on this and meetings have been held between the applicants and ABP during the process. I know too that the vast majority of posters here favour the N28 route for their own reasons - though that won't be taken into consideration
However, I do hope that ABP will look carefully at the detail of this EIA regarding noise, pollution, barrier design etc and point out the shortfalls in it in their findings. I doubt they will be branding concerned objectors as idiotic or liars. That would be personal and of course we don't do personal.

I am also a resident of Douglas but unfortunately I live next to this thing so forgive the objectors if they don't roll over just yet . . .turkeys, Christmas etc

marno21

The fun begins today

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/vital-that-180m-cork-ringaskiddy-motorway-gets-green-light-462352.html

marno21

Anyone attend the whinefest today?

Limerick74

marno21 wrote: »

Anyone attend the whinefest today?

Full house this morning by all accounts.

Golfer50

marno21 wrote: »

Anyone attend the whinefest today?

Yes indeed. Couldn't believe the whining from the applicants.

Middle Man

Golfer50 wrote: »

Yes indeed. Couldn't believe the whining from the applicants.

...that's why things don't get done in this country - we entertain far too much of this BS...

...Rugby World Cup bid fail - outsiders tell us what they think of the way in which we do things (or not) - about bloody time IMO!

Limerick74

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cork-road-objectors-unlike-those-fighting-apple-in-athenry-1.3283394

marno21

Jerry Buttimer should be ashamed of himself. Total rubbish he is quoted as saying there.

The M28 appeal is holding up the relocation of the Port which is holding up the Docklands plan. The **** will be out next week then complaining about the lack of housing.

It's no wonder he lost his seat.

marno21

More detail on the whinging today. I presume these people who live in Maryborough Hill cycle around rather than these death trap polluting cars?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/180m-cork-ringaskiddy-motorway-would-split-communities-oral-hearing-told-462413.html

Aontachtoir

marno21 wrote: »

More detail on the whinging today. I presume these people who live in Maryborough Hill cycle around rather than these death trap polluting cars?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/180m-cork-ringaskiddy-motorway-would-split-communities-oral-hearing-told-462413.html

Very good of the Examiner to save two lines at the end for the people who actually think this motorway is a good idea.

Also, it's quite cheeky of the Steering Group to claim they are representing 10,000 residents. They're certainly not representing me or anyone I know from Douglas, Rochestown, Maryborough Hill or Mount Oval.