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Should the M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy motorway be built? [project approved]

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Golfer50


    marno21 wrote: »
    Golfer50, not sure if I asked you this before..

    Can I ask what your objections are please?

    We had a chat back at post 102.


  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Golfer50


    marno21 wrote: »
    Regarding the oral hearing; I'd have trouble justifying taking a day off work and a return N20 trip for it.

    Do you think it would be just a one day affair?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Golfer50 wrote: »
    Do you think it would be just a one day affair?
    It'll likely go beyond a day if there's a good amount of submissions alright.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 157 ✭✭DylanGLC


    I would go as I am living in the area so would be directly affected by it (my only issue with it really is the loss of the slip road onto it on Maryborough Hill), but the M28 Steering Group Facebook page is bad enough to read, let alone hear in person..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭kub


    DylanGLC wrote: »
    I would go as I am living in the area so would be directly affected by it (my only issue with it really is the loss of the slip road onto it on Maryborough Hill), but the M28 Steering Group Facebook page is bad enough to read, let alone hear in person..

    Are you aware that you will still be able to use a new slip road that will be constructed further up the Mulcon Valley and it will be a lot safer as well?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    kub wrote: »
    DylanGLC wrote: »
    I would go as I am living in the area so would be directly affected by it (my only issue with it really is the loss of the slip road onto it on Maryborough Hill), but the M28 Steering Group Facebook page is bad enough to read, let alone hear in person..

    Are you aware that you will still be able to use a new slip road that will be constructed further up the Mulcon Valley and it will be a lot safer as well?

    And the new junction includes all movements including coming off the N28 to access Maryborough which you cannot do at the moment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 157 ✭✭DylanGLC


    kub wrote: »
    Are you aware that you will still be able to use a new slip road that will be constructed further up the Mulcon Valley and it will be a lot safer as well?
    Where exactly do you get onto that?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    DylanGLC wrote: »
    Where exactly do you get onto that?

    A new full Interchange at the top of Carrs Hill where the current N28 merges with the old Carrigaline Road out of Douglas.

    There will be a new link Road down to Maryborough to access this Interchange.

    All 4 movements will be available at this Interchange, so in contrast to the current Maryborough slip, this also provides access from the M28; along with access to the M28 towards Carrigaline


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 157 ✭✭DylanGLC


    marno21 wrote: »
    A new full Interchange at the top of Carrs Hill where the current N28 merges with the old Carrigaline Road out of Douglas.

    There will be a new link Road down to Maryborough to access this Interchange.

    All 4 movements will be available at this Interchange, so in contrast to the current Maryborough slip, this also provides access from the M28; along with access to the M28 towards Carrigaline
    Thank you for that information :) I don't know why but it is kind of difficult to find (real) information the project at times.. If this gets planning in December, when is construction expected to begin?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    DylanGLC wrote: »
    Thank you for that information :) I don't know why but it is kind of difficult to find (real) information the project at times.. If this gets planning in December, when is construction expected to begin?

    There's lots of information on www.n28cork-ringaskiddy.com, on the homepage and under Public Display. A lot of information that's valid and not full of the misinformation on the Steering Group page.

    Construction would be late 2019 at the earliest. Likely later because if this is approved it'll probably be appealed.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    This is the biggest issue. The steering group are putting so much misinformation out there that people don’t know what’s what.

    This scheme will dramatically improve traffic in the Maryborough Hill area.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    This is the biggest issue. The steering group are putting so much misinformation out there that people don’t know what’s what.

    This scheme will dramatically improve traffic in the Maryborough Hill area.
    Well let's hope the heartstrings become strings (with the shredder) after ABP's decision.


  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Golfer50


    I'm sure the ABP inspector is well able to distinguish misinformation from spin.

    I heard today that the hotel room for the oral hearing is booked for three days the first week and the same the following week if necessary. I don't know what interested parties will be able to attend on that basis, given work commitments etc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    From 96FM on 24/10/2017.

    Listen from 27 minutes onwards, i'd be interested in the opinions of what Buttimer said in this piece.

    https://soundcloud.com/opinionline96/the-opinion-line-2017-10-24-your-free-daily-podcast-is-here?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=facebook


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The Oral Hearing will sort all this mess out hopefully.

    Buttimer tells us that there was no alternative routes proposed. There was 4 proposed, all of which were rejected on cost or uselessness grounds. There is one obvious correct route to use and this is it. He tells us he's not against the M28. He has a funny way of showing it when he pulls out the Steering Group card

    Harrington has gotten to the stage where he has no facts to back him up and now is just telling lies about people having their house CPOd and waiting in fear of the diggers. This kind of rubbish and fearmongering is why there was 1000 cars at the Rochestown Park Hotel, he'd be better off if they didn't come to the Oral Hearing for the exposure of it all. Of course it's only for the 4000 trucks a day coming from the Port also. No one in Carrigaline, Shanbally or Ringaskiddy itself, nor all the people who work in Ringaskiddy will benefit.

    This has become personal and its quite sad now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Golfer50


    marno21 wrote: »

    Harrington has gotten to the stage where he has no facts to back him up and now is just telling lies . . . . .

    This has become personal and its quite sad now.

    Agreed


  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Golfer50


    marno21 wrote: »
    The Oral Hearing will sort all this mess out hopefully.

    Buttimer tells us that there was no alternative routes proposed. There was 4 proposed, all of which were rejected on cost or uselessness grounds. There is one obvious correct route to use and this is it..

    Hopefully the Oral Hearing WILL sort this mess out.
    It is very interesting that the Board has requested the applicant to " provide a robust justification for the choice of corridor . ... .In particular justification for the routing of the on-line section through a significant residential area . . .whereby the present operation on the interchange will remain unchanged . ." Presumably referring to the fact that Bloomfield is not to be upgraded.
    Obviously someone in high places has the same concerns as I have that the route chosen was actually the easiest route and may not actually be the best one.

    The possible routes were measured using a set of criteria. One of the chief criteria was the impact on the existing N28, human and otherwise. The "experts" in their wisdom then chose the existing N28 to be the best route! Completely illogical. This is the one route which has the most detrimental effect on the existing N28 environment completely at odds with their own criteria.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Golfer50 wrote: »
    Hopefully the Oral Hearing WILL sort this mess out.
    It is very interesting that the Board has requested the applicant to " provide a robust justification for the choice of corridor . ... .In particular justification for the routing of the on-line section through a significant residential area . . .whereby the present operation on the interchange will remain unchanged . ." Presumably referring to the fact that Bloomfield is not to be upgraded.
    Obviously someone in high places has the same concerns as I have that the route chosen was actually the easiest route and may not actually be the best one.

    The possible routes were measured using a set of criteria. One of the chief criteria was the impact on the existing N28, human and otherwise. The "experts" in their wisdom then chose the existing N28 to be the best route! Completely illogical. This is the one route which has the most detrimental effect on the existing N28 environment completely at odds with their own criteria.
    The existing N28 at Carrs Hill and further down towards Bloomfield is a mess every morning and evening at peak times. It's also liable to accidents.

    The existing junction at Carrs Hill and the slip roads aren't fit for purpose, which is why a new interchange is proposed at Carrs Hill to allow for all movements.

    The route corridor was chosen after 5 routes were investigated and the best chosen. It was chosen because it connects directly with the N40 at a freeflow interchange. It was chosen also because there is no other logical route from Carrigaline to Cork, and if you go to Ballinhassig you'd be building a motorway which won't be used and the existing cars, and trucks I might add, will still use the existing N28.

    As for this stuff about the Port etc, the N28 has been in planning now since the early 2000s. The "motorway" part is simply blue signs and no chance of anyone building houses or shopping centres on it. The road will have a limit of 100km/h.

    The EIS states that the M28 will not have long term negative impacts on the area. It does however state that there will be long term positive impacts on the area. No more fumes due to trucks idling. Significantly improved access to Rochestown.

    The reason for the "robust justification of route corridor" is likely because that's what all the complains are about, because the Steering Group told them to suggest the motorway go via Ballinhassig. Non runner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Golfer50


    I agree that the present road is not fit for the existing volume of traffic.
    I did read in the EIA however that 50pc of Carrigaline traffic would use the possible alternative routes. Also, if an alternative route was chosen, and you don't want trucks to use the existing n28, you just have to make a regulation and put up a big sign!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Golfer50 wrote: »
    marno21 wrote: »
    The Oral Hearing will sort all this mess out hopefully.

    Buttimer tells us that there was no alternative routes proposed. There was 4 proposed, all of which were rejected on cost or uselessness grounds. There is one obvious correct route to use and this is it..

    Hopefully the Oral Hearing WILL sort this mess out.
    It is very interesting that the Board has requested the applicant to " provide a robust justification for the choice of corridor . ... .In particular justification for the routing of the on-line section through a significant residential area . . .whereby the present operation on the interchange will remain unchanged . ." Presumably referring to the fact that Bloomfield is not to be upgraded.
    Obviously someone in high places has the same concerns as I have that the route chosen was actually the easiest route and may not actually be the best one.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the most basic parts of these hearings - regardless of the degree or nature of opposition to the project - getting the applicant to justify why the route in question was chosen? Putting that question to the Council is not evidence that ABP think the proposed route is not the right one - it's just ABP doing their job.

    Furthermore, I can't agree with you that the M28 planners ignored their own guidelines. Every route proposed had its own advantages and drawbacks. The route which had the greatest advantages and fewest drawbacks was the one submitted to ABP. It's not perfect, but it wasn't arbitrarily chosen, and it's the best option of the bunch.

    As a resident of Douglas with family out in Currabinny, I can't wait for this road to be built.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Golfer50


    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the most basic parts of these hearings - regardless of the degree or nature of opposition to the project - getting the applicant to justify why the route in question was chosen? Putting that question to the Council is not evidence that ABP think the proposed route is not the right one - it's just ABP doing their job.

    Furthermore, I can't agree with you that the M28 planners ignored their own guidelines. .

    Aontaim leat on the first point but if you read what I refer to is that the applicant has been requested to justify the route, given that Bloomfield is staying as it is towards the tunnel . . . and Belfast of course!

    Perhaps due regard wasn't given to the impending Limerick motorway and Cork northern ring road either.

    The planners have in fact ignored their own guidelines regarding noise levels in this EIA but more specifically re the route chosen, It does not match their own criteria as outlined in their own document.

    I'm not overly hopeful here, as I know a few million has already been spent on this and meetings have been held between the applicants and ABP during the process. I know too that the vast majority of posters here favour the N28 route for their own reasons - though that won't be taken into consideration :)
    However, I do hope that ABP will look carefully at the detail of this EIA regarding noise, pollution, barrier design etc and point out the shortfalls in it in their findings. I doubt they will be branding concerned objectors as idiotic or liars. That would be personal and of course we don't do personal.

    I am also a resident of Douglas but unfortunately I live next to this thing so forgive the objectors if they don't roll over just yet . . .turkeys, Christmas etc


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Anyone attend the whinefest today?


  • Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭Limerick74


    marno21 wrote: »
    Anyone attend the whinefest today?

    Full house this morning by all accounts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Golfer50


    marno21 wrote: »
    Anyone attend the whinefest today?
    Yes indeed. Couldn't believe the whining from the applicants.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    Golfer50 wrote: »
    Yes indeed. Couldn't believe the whining from the applicants.
    ...that's why things don't get done in this country - we entertain far too much of this BS...

    ...Rugby World Cup bid fail - outsiders tell us what they think of the way in which we do things (or not) - about bloody time IMO!


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Jerry Buttimer should be ashamed of himself. Total rubbish he is quoted as saying there.

    The M28 appeal is holding up the relocation of the Port which is holding up the Docklands plan. The **** will be out next week then complaining about the lack of housing.

    It's no wonder he lost his seat.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    More detail on the whinging today. I presume these people who live in Maryborough Hill cycle around rather than these death trap polluting cars?

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/180m-cork-ringaskiddy-motorway-would-split-communities-oral-hearing-told-462413.html


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    marno21 wrote: »
    More detail on the whinging today. I presume these people who live in Maryborough Hill cycle around rather than these death trap polluting cars?

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/180m-cork-ringaskiddy-motorway-would-split-communities-oral-hearing-told-462413.html
    Very good of the Examiner to save two lines at the end for the people who actually think this motorway is a good idea.

    Also, it's quite cheeky of the Steering Group to claim they are representing 10,000 residents. They're certainly not representing me or anyone I know from Douglas, Rochestown, Maryborough Hill or Mount Oval.


  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Golfer50


    Just to let you know.
    Approximately 90 percent of the day was occupied by Cork Co. Council clarifying route choice etc.
    Some people were allowed to speak at the start if they were unable to attend again, but that was only a side show ( Cork Ex quotes)
    There was no input from the M28 steering group until comments on the applicants submissions (above) are allowed today.
    The inspector seems very level headed unlike some contributors and I know she she has already visited homes in the Rochestown area to experience directly the situation now.
    I think people should let this run for better or worse. Uninformed comments wouldn't be allowed at the hearing, I do'nt see why they should be allowed here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Kevwoody


    Golfer50 wrote: »
    Just to let you know.
    Approximately 90 percent of the day was occupied by Cork Co. Council clarifying route choice etc.
    Some people were allowed to speak at the start if they were unable to attend again, but that was only a side show ( Cork Ex quotes)
    There was no input from the M28 steering group until comments on the applicants submissions (above) are allowed today.
    The inspector seems very level headed unlike some contributors and I know she she has already visited homes in the Rochestown area to experience directly the situation now.
    I think people should let this run for better or worse. Uninformed comments wouldn't be allowed at the hearing, I do'nt see why they should be allowed here.



    Well then if uninformed comments are not allowed at the hearing, that's the "Steering Group " ruled out of the process.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Golfer50 wrote: »
    I think people should let this run for better or worse. Uninformed comments wouldn't be allowed at the hearing, I do'nt see why they should be allowed here.
    I think we have to let it run, we don't have a choice. However, if we let it run and ABP grants permission to the motorway, will the M28 steering group accept this, or will they try and get the decision thrown out? Furthermore, based off the comments published in the Examiner, it seems like being uninformed is no obstacle to participating in the hearing, which is unfortunate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Some of the stuff put out by the Steering Group is sheer lies in attempt to get people on their side.

    People in the area I’ve talked to don’t have much knowledge of the scheme and we’re basically taking the Groups words at face value.

    Some of the stuff put across especially in regards on the effects of local traffic in the area is absurd. Dividing communities? The road is already there. This scheme may actually aid in both traffic and pedestrian movements at a local level.


  • Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭DoubleJoe7


    marno21 wrote: »
    More detail on the whinging today. I presume these people who live in Maryborough Hill cycle around rather than these death trap polluting cars?

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/180m-cork-ringaskiddy-motorway-would-split-communities-oral-hearing-told-462413.html

    People who have to live with the consequences of this have a right to voice their objections and concerns without the likes of you accusing them of 'whinging' from behind your keyboard miles away.

    The comments about the noise pollution are particularly pertinent.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    DoubleJoe7 wrote: »
    People who have to live with the consequences of this have a right to voice their objections and concerns without the likes of you accusing them of 'whinging' from behind your keyboard miles away.

    The comments about the noise pollution are particularly pertinent.

    People have a right to voice their concerns. Their concerns were addressed and they were informed that their concerns have been alleviated. Of course for some people, like Harrington, this doesn't suit his agenda so it turns to lies and scaremongering. Read the EIS, it explains all of this

    Noise pollution won't go up. Same traffic, same route, same speed limit.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Did Harrington suggest routing this via Cork Airport at the Oral Hearing today "in order to connect to another strategic infrastructure"?

    Very weak argument if true


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    I didn't get a chance to read over any of the detail regarding the meeting nor could i attend due to work.

    Ger Harrington is only trying to frighten people into getting his own way plus to make a name for himself, is he rubbing shoulders with Jerry Buttimer for a potential future career in politics?

    As for Buttimer, was he at the Ambassador Hotel?


  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Baldilocks


    DoubleJoe7 wrote: »
    People who have to live with the consequences of this have a right to voice their objections and concerns without the likes of you accusing them of 'whinging' from behind your keyboard miles away.

    The comments about the noise pollution are particularly pertinent.

    I have to live with the consequences, and I CANNOT WAIT for the road to be upgraded!!! The steering group are claiming to represent 10,000 people - it's a stretch (to put it mildly), I'd be gobsmacked if there were more than 2,000 people who were with them.
    At the end of the day, the road is being widened from 3 lanes to 4, and some of the junctions are being moved (junctions that should never have been there in the first place).

    The noise and pollution arguments are smoke and mirrors from the genii in the steering group. In the short term, they will be alleviated because the road will be free flowing, and not bumper to bumper as they are at the moment, in the long term, vehicles will be electric (more efficient - Tesla are about to release their HGV).
    The nonsense about house prices suffering is a complete fabrication - they will increase when the new road opens as a result of the traffic situation being ameliorated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 822 ✭✭✭zetalambda


    marno21 wrote: »

    "Increased noise and noxious gas emissions" :confused:

    With electric vehicles set to become the norm, the opposite will be the case.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭DoubleJoe7


    The electric car argument is the biggest red herring of the lot. We're a couple of decades away from electric becoming the norm, the uptake levels are pitiful and there is little appetite in government to properly encourage its uptake.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    DoubleJoe7 wrote: »
    The electric car argument is the biggest red herring of the lot. We're a couple of decades away from electric becoming the norm, the uptake levels are pitiful and there is little appetite in government to properly encourage its uptake.

    The rental of the batteries is the biggest turn off for me personally.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    DoubleJoe7 wrote: »
    The electric car argument is the biggest red herring of the lot. We're a couple of decades away from electric becoming the norm, the uptake levels are pitiful and there is little appetite in government to properly encourage its uptake.

    The growth in electric car usage will counter the growth in emissions from total traffic growth on the M28. The short journey from Carrigaline to Cork is also very conducive for electric cars


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    marno21 wrote: »
    Did Harrington suggest routing this via Cork Airport at the Oral Hearing today "in order to connect to another strategic infrastructure"?

    Very weak argument if true

    Kinsale Roundabout can barely handle the traffic on it at the moment. Would be a disaster if all Carrigaline and Ringaskiddy traffic would have to use it.

    Most traffic would still use the old road as it would be both short and faster due to congestion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭DoubleJoe7


    marno21 wrote: »
    The growth in electric car usage will counter the growth in emissions from total traffic growth on the M28. The short journey from Carrigaline to Cork is also very conducive for electric cars

    It's proposed to have this built by 2023. There isn't a hope that electric vehicles will have had enough uptake by then to counter growth in emissions from total traffic growth in any meaningful way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 822 ✭✭✭zetalambda


    DoubleJoe7 wrote: »
    The electric car argument is the biggest red herring of the lot. We're a couple of decades away from electric becoming the norm, the uptake levels are pitiful and there is little appetite in government to properly encourage its uptake.

    :eek:

    The steering groups strongest card is the "health" one but it's complete nonsense! The shift to electric has already started albeit slowly but the pace of change will accelerate over the next decade and this gradual change will firstly negate the increase of noise and fumes they say it will increase and then cause it to decrease.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    Former Green Party TD Dan Boyle has now jumped on the M28 steering group bandwagon.

    And you’d wonder where the emissions stats came from :rolleyes:


    Having just looked at their page it seems attendance numbers were so small they called off getting a bus to bring them there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Golfer50


    Some of the stuff put out by the Steering Group is sheer lies in attempt to get people on their side . . . Dividing communities? The road is already there
    I'm sure ABP will not take " lies" on board so you can relax there.
    Regarding your second point, you obviously weren't at the hearing today to hear the contribution from an elderly rep from Ringaskiddy residents where exactly that is to happen to her community under the proposed scheme.
    She very ably described the dismantling of their community over 40 yrs . . . I won't go on. It may have been lies.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,500 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Golfer50 wrote: »
    I'm sure ABP will not take " lies" on board so you can relax there.
    Regarding your second point, you obviously weren't at the hearing today to hear the contribution from an elderly rep from Ringaskiddy residents where exactly that is to happen to her community under the proposed scheme.
    She very ably described the dismantling of their community over 40 yrs . . . I won't go on. It may have been lies.

    The Steering Group are worried only about the section north of Carrs Hill. This woman's story is nothing to do with their aims.

    The M28 is going through fields in Ringaskiddy. Ringaskiddy is no longer a rural village, the M28 is not the cause of that. That's the price of development.


  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Golfer50


    Former Green Party TD Dan Boyle has now jumped on the M28 steering group bandwagon . . . it seems attendance numbers were so small they called off getting a bus to bring them there.
    I don't know where Dan Boyle came from but he did make one valid point regarding the tunnel, it being closed so regularly for maintenance and puddles of water. Hardly the best route for such vital infrastructure?

    The room was packed yesterday with people sitting on the floor. So much so that on one occasion the safety aspect was raised from the "floor".


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