The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Graces7 wrote: »

No good ever came of killing another to serve self. If the family is too poor then they should have practised safe sex.

It is called taking responsibility for your own actions. Rather than punishing an innocent for your mistakes.

With all due respect you’ve no idea what you’re talking about. With the best intentions in the world of being careful, accidents happen. You’re trying to slut shame women because they’ve had sex. Sex isn’t a bad thing that deserves punishment. It’s an intimate act between two consenting adults and sometimes accidents happen, the pill isn’t effective or the condom breaks and people find themselves in an awful situation whereby they aren’t emotionally or physically or mentally ready to become a parent. A child deserves a home that it’ll be safe and loved in and if for whatever reason a woman finds herself unable to offer that then her body should not be an incubator and another defenseless child forced upon her for care.

I know personally I have a condition that’s not under control at the moment and my consultants have warned me not to get pregnant, as if by some miracle I’m actually fertile right now my body is incapable of growing a healthy baby and I’ve been the child wouldn’t be okay. I am personally against abortion for me, but if it did happen I wouldn’t have any choice really, it wouldn’t be a pregnancy with a happy ending. What am i supposed to do? Abstain from sex because I’m unwell?

Zubeneschamali

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Same with SSM and civil partnerships. Round and round and round we go.

Many of these people are conservative, not in the Maggie Thatcher political sense, but in the "Stop changing things!" sense.

The actual issues - contraception, divorce, SSM, abortion - they mostly don't have any moral investment in these issues at all. It's why we never hear of anyone campaigning to ban divorce or contraception. They have no vision of where society should go or why, they have no interest in progress of any kind.

It's why they are perfectly fine with abortion of Irish fetuses in the UK - they don't actually care. It's also why, when put to it, they can't muster any arguments for their views. They don't actually hold those views for any particular reason.

They just think all change is bad, and everything used to be better before it changed. It's an attitude rather than an argument.

January

PhoenixParker wrote: »

I feel like a note is warranted on contraception for anyone reading this and thinking "they should have just used contraception" is maybe a semi-decent argument.

The rates of failure given for contraception are per year.

Take the pill, which with perfect use, has a 99% effective rate. That means one woman in 100 will get pregnant every year. Sounds like there's a tiny risk of failure

But

Women are fertile for about 27 years (18-45 approx), so a woman taking the pill throughout her fertile years has something like a 1 in 4 chance of an unexpected pregnancy in a woman's lifetime using one of the most reliable methods perfectly.

18-45? Try from average age of 10 to around age 45.

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This post has been deleted.

Neyite

January wrote: »

18-45? Try from average age of 10 to around age 45.

Actually it's closer to her fifties or even mid fifties given that there is often a fertile surge during peri-menopause and before full menopause happens.

So about 40+ years of potential fertility is about average for a woman I would say.

PhoenixParker

January wrote: »

18-45? Try from average age of 10 to around age 45.

18-45 Is the time period used to calculate rates if abortion which is why I went with it.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Also I find it absolutely insane that anyone with any connection to the Catholic Church would have the sheer audocity to say “what about the babies? What about life?” Given their record with children and women of reproductive age, and how they were treated

SusieBlue

Valerie Fat Turbojet wrote: »

Also I find it absolutely insane that anyone with any connection to the Catholic Church would have the sheer audocity to say “what about the babies? What about life?” Given their record with children and women of reproductive age, and how they were treated

If I could thank this twice I would. Hypocrisy of the highest order!

retro:electro

Graces7 wrote: »

No good ever came of killing another to serve self. If the family is too poor then they should have practised safe sex.

It is called taking responsibility for your own actions. Rather than punishing an innocent for your mistakes.

The hypocrisy is strong but frankly not at all surprising, Your Grace.

Havockk

Sierra Eire wrote: »

I am not a "re-reg". This is my first account on this site and I use my username on every website I use. Try googling it. I can't find anything trollish about my question in this thread.

I find it ridiculous that a number of pro-abortion people cry "women's rights!!!" even though healthy little unborn girls are the majority of abortion victims. If you think I am a troll for not buying this "women's rights" pro-abortion argument then you are naive.

OK. So I took your advice and I googled your name.

I found your youtube channel. I know you have hidden it by this stage... unfortunately for you it's still available cached.


Well... well.... well. I see you like mid 20thC German history LOL

Havockk

Ahhh Dave... tis yourself

Oldtree

Havockk wrote: »

Ahhh Dave... tis yourself

Where's Dave from? Was I right in my guess?

Edit: changed my mind, I don't care , hopefully he will go back the hole he crawled out of soon!

Havockk

Sierra Eire wrote: »

I'm a nazi (national socialist) because I don't support murdering babies? I'm not sure that makes any sense.

Definitely not a socialist. I believe in freedom and limited government.

ForestFire

Valerie Fat Turbojet wrote: »

Also I find it absolutely insane that anyone with any connection to the Catholic Church would have the sheer audocity to say “what about the babies? What about life?” Given their record with children and women of reproductive age, and how they were treated

Do you really think the ordinary members of the Catholic church today even knew about Tuam?

Do you not think that even though they are members, they know that what happened there was wrong?

Are you suggestion that members of the Catholic church can never find wrong in anything again because of past wrongs by the church itself?

The pro choice side tactics now seem to be to discredit every pro life arguement based on the poster and their beliefs, rather than the argument itself.

Are you in favour of removing Catholics from the democratic vote n the 8th all together, because of the church?

I know in some cases, with certain posts, it's very hard to resist, but I don't think it's helpful.

I am not practicing Catholic or decided on my vote for the record.

Oldtree

ForestFire wrote: »

Do you really think the ordinary members of the Catholic church today even knew about Tuam?

Do you not think that even though they are members, they know that what happened there was wrong?

Are you suggestion that members of the Catholic church can never find wrong in anything again because of past wrongs by the church itself?

The pro choice side tactics now seem to be to discredit every pro life arguement based on the poster and their beliefs, rather than the argument itself.

Are you in favour of removing Catholics from the democratic vote n the 8th all together, because of the church?

I know in some cases, with certain posts, it's very hard to resist, but I don't think it's helpful.

I am not practicing Catholic or decided on my vote for the record.

I think that a lot of what went on was ignored by many, many Irish people and that fear made many, many Irish people stick their heads in the sand for so long. And yes a lot of Irish people knew what went on. The Catholic mindset of old was so ingrained that it continues today.

No I'm not in favor of anyone having their vote withdrawn, but I think we will see clearly how far we have come in may.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

ForestFire wrote: »

Do you really think the ordinary members of the Catholic church today even knew about Tuam?

Do you not think that even though they are members, they know that what happened there was wrong?

Are you suggestion that members of the Catholic church can never find wrong in anything again because of past wrongs by the church itself?

The pro choice side tactics now seem to be to discredit every pro life arguement based on the poster and their beliefs, rather than the argument itself.

Are you in favour of removing Catholics from the democratic vote n the 8th all together, because of the church?

I know in some cases, with certain posts, it's very hard to resist, but I don't think it's helpful.

I am not practicing Catholic or decided on my vote for the record.

I believe members from the Catholic Church should butt the **** out of issues that don’t concern them. Do you think some mickey dodging aul one of a nun is ever going to have to worry about being refused medical treatment for a serious illness, being cut the entire way to her backside, or left to rot in a bed with sepsis? No she won’t. Does it affect priests? No. So they have no right to be be pontificating about how all life is equal when their very institutions are known for horrific and unspeakable actions against child bearing women and the care of babies, born and unborn. It’s not that long ago since the last laundry closed it’s door on Irish soil. Children from these homes are still fighting tooth and nail to find their birth families and to gain access to birth certs and medical history.

If they had any remorse, sadness or empathy they’d shut their mouths on this issue but they won’t because they’ll never get to grips with not controlling the country and not being allowed to treat women like sluts for having sex.

david75

So all the pro choice groups have coalesced.

https://twitter.com/together4yes/status/974232871895433216?s=21

Ismisejack

robarmstrong wrote: »

The Pro-life side tend to forget that with every forced upon unwanted full term pregnancy they're impeding an actual existing citizen's rights, not a "person in the making".

Are you going to contribute or just drop troll-like soundbites until you're eventually banned? Genuinely curious as you sprint away from any and all replies.

No woman is ever “forced “ into having a pregnancy( unless there the unfortunate victim of a terrible crime that is rape), it is a choice they make, and a woman should think hard before there sure they want a baby, and realise if they are willing to take risks in bed they must be willing to carry any resulting child to birth and thereafter

david75

Ismisejack wrote: »

No woman is ever “forced “ into having a pregnancy( unless there the unfortunate victim of a terrible crime that is rape), it is a choice they make, and a woman should think hard before there sure they want a baby, and realise if they are willing to take risks in bed they must be willing to carry any resulting child to birth and thereafter

Keep saying exactly that. To anyone that will listen. Especially women. See you in May after the result.

robarmstrong

Ismisejack wrote: »

No woman is ever “forced “ into having a pregnancy( unless there the unfortunate victim of a terrible crime that is rape), it is a choice they make, and a woman should think hard before there sure they want a baby, and realise if they are willing to take risks in bed they must be willing to carry any resulting child to birth and thereafter

Ah there he is, the troll is back!

So here let me just discredit your entire little soundbite there mmkay.

Have you comprehended that there is no guaranteed 100% fully effective method of contraception?

Are you indirectly advocating that sex should be used entirely for procreation?

"if they are willing to take risks in bed" - a man could be wearing a condom whilst the lady is on the pill and there is still a chance a little swimmer could make their way through.

Do you want us to just dry-hump one another into oblivion based on your outdated mindset and ideologies?

RobertKK

Prime Time is interesting, no evidence of the retain the 8th of taking foreign money, unlike Repeal the 8th.

david75

RobertKK wrote: »

Prime Time is interesting, no evidence of the retain the 8th of taking foreign money, unlike Repeal the 8th.

I’m selling a huge statue in New York on the Hudson River, while you’re buying everything.

RobertKK

david75 wrote: »

I’m selling a huge statue in New York on the Hudson River, while you’re buying everything.

Is that how repeal the 8th are getting the foreign money?

Ismisejack

robarmstrong wrote: »

Ah there he is, the troll is back!

So here let me just discredit your entire little soundbite there mmkay.

Have you comprehended that there is no guaranteed 100% fully effective method of contraception?

Are you indirectly advocating that sex should be used entirely for procreation?

"if they are willing to take risks in bed" - a man could be wearing a condom whilst the lady is on the pill and there is still a chance a little swimmer could make their way through.

Do you want us to just dry-hump one another into oblivion based on your outdated mindset and ideologies?

No, however one always has to be willing to risk pregnancy if there having sex, as in the event of conception a baby grows and the baby can’t be just killed as it was unintentional, that although through no fault of anyone, killing the baby would be barbaric as that’s what abortion is, baby killing

PopePalpatine

Havockk wrote: »

#LoveBoth

markodaly

RobertKK wrote: »

Prime Time is interesting, no evidence of the retain the 8th of taking foreign money, unlike Repeal the 8th.

Well the repeal the 8th crowd certainly have come out worse here.

Interesting as the the pro choice side always gave out about American money going into Irish pro-life coffers. Now the shoe is on the other foot, are they going to clean up house, or just shout out loudly and point the finger at the other side (with no real proof) as a way to deflect.

Morality eh, such an invisible line.

robarmstrong

Ismisejack wrote: »

No, however one always has to be willing to risk pregnancy if there having sex, as in the event of conception a baby grows and the baby can’t be just killed as it was unintentional, that although through no fault of anyone, killing the baby would be barbaric as that’s what abortion is, baby killing

It's not a baby, it's a fetus.

It hasn't been born, it has not yet become a citizen of Ireland, it is currently residing inside the property of a citizen of Ireland.

Abortion is barbaric? Get a grip mate. So is molesting kids, shoving payouts under parents noses and throwing ill babies into a mass grave in the back arse of nowhere, but I know what the lesser of two evils is here.

What's barbaric is suppressing a woman's right to choose what happens with her own body.

david75

RobertKK wrote: »

Is that how repeal the 8th are getting the foreign money?

All the companies and there are many, registered to the same address as Iona strangely enough, would have and do have ways of funnelling their US dollars.

Not interested in a pissing match about that. There are two different threads about referendum funding in the after hours and politics section.


Want to talk about that you’ll find all your myopic views and conspiracies in those threads.

Be good to keep this one on topic.


*ps whose paying for the thousands of billboard pro life posters nationwide?
Irish donations? Again, I’m selling a giant statue of you want to buy one.

volchitsa

Ismisejack wrote: »

No woman is ever “forced “ into having a pregnancy( unless there the unfortunate victim of a terrible crime that is rape), it is a choice they make, and a woman should think hard before there sure they want a baby, and realise if they are willing to take risks in bed they must be willing to carry any resulting child to birth and thereafter

What about the man, if he is "willing to take risks in bed",what's his punishment?

markodaly

david75 wrote: »

All the companies and there are many, registered to the same address as Iona strangely enough, would have and do have ways of funnelling their US dollars.

Not interested in a pissing match about that. There are two different threads about referendum funding in the after hours and politics section.


Want to talk about that you’ll find all your myopic views and conspiracies in those threads.

Be good to keep this one on topic.


*ps whose paying for the thousands of billboard pro life posters nationwide?
Irish donations? Again, I’m selling a giant statue of you want to buy one.

So, thats the deflection tactic so.

Shame, as I thought the pro-choice crowd at least were more honest and had integrity.