markodaly wrote: » Thats lovely and your point of view, but again its a deflection from the question I asked. If people in the past have been upset over foreign money going to pro-life movements, then why are the same people accepting of it now? Do you not have any integrity?
Ave Sodalis wrote: » It's also true that pro-choice people would love a society where abortion would never be needed, but that's impossible as so long as women are capable of becoming pregnant, there will be abortions (legal or not).
markodaly wrote: » So, thats the deflection tactic so. Shame, as I thought the pro-choice crowd at least were more honest and had integrity.
robarmstrong wrote: » I couldn't give a toss about who accepts what money on either side,
david75 wrote: » Deflection tactic? Hardly. Let’s look up how many companies are registered along with Iona at the same address and talk about dirty money.
markodaly wrote: » Quite convenient no? :pac:
robarmstrong wrote: » I think abortion is wrong. I think oppressing women's rights is more wrong especially in the case where a developing fetus has more rights than an actual born citizen.
Havockk wrote: » Do you have integrity? Can you get pregnant? Up until the moment men can get themselves pregnant they have absolutely no right to dictate terms to woman on what rules there has to be in regards of abortion.
robarmstrong wrote: » I would absolutely love if abortion was never needed and you're absolutely right it is impossible. But I'm not sending my daughter on a plane to a foreign country because her own country is too backwards to support her right and her choice.
Ismisejack wrote: » Dirty tactics being used by you and not just u but many on your side . Labeling pro life stance as backwards and behind the time. There is nothing backwards in standing up for the most vulnerable in society, so stop shaming people with pro life views with such derogatory and utterly false, untrue labels
Edward M wrote: » I can easily see robarmstrongs point re his daughter, or anyone's daughter for that matter. I have two daughters, now both are against abortion, and both are still not sure how they will vote as yet, my wife has said she is voting no. No harm in talking of options here, even though you might be crucified for your opinion or stance. But I will talk as a father here. If either of my daughters decided at any stage in their lives they wanted or needed an abortion and came to me for help, what would I do? Firstly, I would do everything in my power, and I don't mean forcibly stop, to persuade them to go ahead with the pregnancy, I would offer every possible incentive, both supportively and financially, even to the point of offering to bring up the child and allowing them space in their lives to do what they feel they need to do, with the hope they might eventually be able to become the parent of their child. If for some reason they couldn't have the baby because of my offer, or if they never even told me of it until later, or if they went ahead and aborted and I found it out accidentally later, I would still love and respect and support in any way possible my daughters. So maybe I might not be pro choice, in my mind anyway, but realistically if placed in the situation I mentioned in my own circumstances, I would accept my own daughters choices, I know I would, because I have great daughters. The world is full of great daughters, not just mine. I've been hypocritical at times on thread when I look back on my posts, believe it or not that's not because I'm a hypocrite really, that's because this is such an emotive issue and it tears at ones own beliefs as against reality if placed in the situation of it happening to you or your loved ones. I admit the use of language, dehumanising as I see it towards the pregnancy, calling of names to people opposed to repeal because of their opinion, mostly my own beliefs too, as I can easily empathise with the pro life points as well. In the end, how can I be critical of choice, because if my daughters did make a choice as I have outlined, I would definitely support them to the hilt.
kylith wrote: » And if your daughters decided to have an abortion, for whatever reason, do you think they should have to travel to the uk, or would you want them to be able to have it in Ireland, where they could be taken care of at home, by their family, afterward?
Edward M wrote: » But I will talk as a father here. If either of my daughters decided at any stage in their lives they wanted or needed an abortion and came to me for help, what would I do? Firstly, I would do everything in my power, and I don't mean forcibly stop, to persuade them to go ahead with the pregnancy, I would offer every possible incentive, both supportively and financially, even to the point of offering to bring up the child and allowing them space in their lives to do what they feel they need to do, with the hope they might eventually be able to become the parent of their child.
Edward M wrote: » The world is full of great daughters, not just mine. I've been hypocritical at times on thread when I look back on my posts, believe it or not that's not because I'm a hypocrite really, that's because this is such an emotive issue and it tears at ones own beliefs as against reality if placed in the situation of it happening to you or your loved ones. I admit the use of language, dehumanising as I see it towards the pregnancy, calling of names to people opposed to repeal because of their opinion, mostly my own beliefs too, as I can easily empathise with the pro life points as well.In the end, how can I be critical of choice, because if my daughters did make a choice as I have outlined, I would definitely support them to the hilt.
Presage wrote: » It does differ, the mother had no choice in the matter much like the unborn child has no choice in the matter when it comes to rape. In the case of consensual sex the mother had a choice in the matter and should be aware that there is a risk of becoming pregnant when having sex. Morality is not simply black and white, it is often a quite complex equation where the balance can be tipped by some minor changes to the assumptions.
Edward M wrote: » Firstly, I would do everything in my power, and I don't mean forcibly stop, to persuade them to go ahead with the pregnancy, I would offer every possible incentive, both supportively and financially, even to the point of offering to bring up the child and allowing them space in their lives to do what they feel they need to do, with the hope they might eventually be able to become the parent of their child.
JDD wrote: » Edward M - I think you’re falling into the trap of only considering abortion in the case of a young, perhaps unmarried daughter. Fast forward another 20 years. Your daughter has three kids. Her health, but not her life, would be at risk if carrying another child to full term. What would you do then?
nozzferrahhtoo wrote: » The way I would judge parenting for myself, which tends to be the only way I try to judge parenting, I would consider that the wrong choice for me. I would think of it as simply bad parenting and I would be disappointed in myself. To use any power, let alone all of it, to try and motivate or influence their decision in the direction I want them to go is..... in this context.......... a level of parenting I would never want to implement. I would consider myself a failure in that moment. For me the right path would be to ensure they are fully informed off ALL their options and the implication of each one. I would ensure I inform them of options that might not have considered or even know about. And with options they had considered or known about I would ensure they had explored the implications and potentials of each. Positives and Negatives. And they would be fully informed of what support I can and would offer for each of those options. What my role would or could be, if any, in each option. And then the decision would be theirs. At no point in that process would I use any power or influence to attempt to direct which option they go with. I would never offer any support as an incentive like your describe, but offer it as a default given whichever way they go or do not go. To do it any other way would undermine pretty much every principle and goal I hold as a parent and what I feel it means to me to BE a parent. Which for me is to create autonomous people who choose their own path in life rather than extensions of myself doing the things I would do in their situation for my own reasons. As a parent I want them to know their decisions are their own, and not something they chose because I piled pressure (positive or negative) in such a way as they felt compelled to make the decision I constructed to look like the best one for them in a dirty, contrived and manipulative fashion. I physically shiver in revulsion at even the thought of it.
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