Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541528#Comment_118541528

Yeah, Facebook is nest avoided anyway. Reddit is awful for any kind of conversation too.

JP22

May not be the right place for this, mods please move if required.

Sad and shocking news that two police officers (one male and one female cadet) were shot dead in rural Germany apparently by poachers.

Media reports said that the male officer discharged 14 rounds before being killed; two named suspects have been arrested. It’s also reported that the main suspect operated a wild game meat company despite not holding a firearms cert.

The mind boggles.

Cass

MODERATOR NOTE

Moved (the above) to the Off Topic thread.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118579086#Comment_118579086

Annddd thats the reason why German hunters have the power of arrest and can use deadly force,if necessary when dealing with poachers and can carry a sidearm when out and about on their let. That is freaky tho, shoot two police officers to escape while poaching. Just dumped a petrol tanker on a bad fire so to speak in that case.OTOH, it also shows that there is no such thing as a "routine traffic stop" anywhere or anytime if you are LE.

They must have had the guns ready to hand in this situation, which should have already put the officer on high alert, and in itself is a violation of German gun laws, as like here in Ireland, the guns must be in a secured slip in the cab or in the boot of the car when being transported.14 shots discharged and no hits from the LE. Just shows how much every bit of training you have can go out the door when the sht gets VERY real.

No requirement to have a hunting or gun license to operate a wild game meat supply either. As most German butchers will buy and are qualified to purchase WG off the hunter fresh from the forest,bar wild boar that need a food inspection cert that they are trichinosis free. Think the media got this mixed up that the suspect didn't have a hunting license entitling him to sell to WG suppliers?

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586205#Comment_118586205

I read between the lines that he was his own supplier. Which would have required a license I assume

JP22

No doubt there is more to the story and time will tell.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-two-police-officers-shot-dead-during-traffic-stop/a-60606761

I also read online that the main suspect is a professional poacher, was known to police but they could never catch him or get enough proof against him.

Grizzly 45

He would have needed a hunting license to acquire the game.As like here, under the food safety regulations,German hunters can sell"small amounts" of wild game to butchers or restaurants or private individuals. Provided they are obviously properly field dressed, and still in their skin/feathers, [and certified if they are wB].If you do anything else to the game its considered butchering and requires a whole plethora of environmental and H&S regulations and facilities.

So if he was running a wild game butchers shop. Then he would have needed all the H&S licenses and qualifications to handle and process WG meat going into the food chain.But could have illegally negated that by saying he was supplying as a hunter "small amounts" and not butchering the game. Risky tho as anyone buying in a professional capacity adding it to the food chain [IE a butcher or restaurant owner] would need to prove who they bought it off was a ligit hunter.

Be interesting to see if he had a hunting license or a sports shooters license for the guns too.As there are two different types of licensing of firearms in Germany, which are not interchangeable at all.

Grizzly 45

Another "Oopsie!" with AGS and firearms handling in the make?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/armed-officers-at-garda-hq-are-failing-to-store-weapons-correctly-whistleblower-says-41317588.html

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118591813#Comment_118591813

How come the defense force never seems to suffer from these issues?

Grizzly 45

Probably because if you do have a negligent discharge or some other mortal firearms transgression you'll be whitewashing the coal cellar and weeding the parade ground by hand for the next month in your off time from cleaning the latrines with a nailbrush?

otmmyboy2

That and just because they don't get reported to the general public doesn't mean they don't happen.

Although similar does happen in the DF too:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/investigation-into-alleged-weapons-parts-theft-from-army-stores-continues-1.4686068

JP22

I see Ireland is facing EU fines for not implementing EU Legislation.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ireland-facing-eu-fines-for-failing-to-introduce-weapons-controls-1.4802153#:~:text=Ireland%20is%20facing%20the%20prospect,by%20more%20than%20two%20years.

The article also says "The directive also includes rules governing the inspection of such weapons".

The Legislation (late as usual) will probably be enacted but it will be useless as we have NO Irish Proof House/Inspection House, with no Proof House who is then qualified to inspect such firearms as per EU Legislation?

The mind boggles.

Grizzly 45

The usual firearms article full of half-truths, outright BS, misinformation and mis informed along with a healthy dose of pearl-clutching.IOW Std Irish Times fodder.The problem is not Western-made blank firers but Russian and Algerian and Turkish designs that are deliberately built from the ground up to be easily converted to live firing guns by the use of domestic tools, and are easier to smuggle out of those countries to the EU as they can be freely bought over the counter

.Google the UK Markarov hit kits to see how these came about, as these were steel-framed pistols and slides that had come off the Baikal production line and just had a steel barrel block to allow them to cycle with a 9mm blank. Try any of that with a Umarex or the like and you'll be lucky to even get it to stay in one piece as they are pot metal mostly and will fall apart if you start tooling them.

All in all, another problem that is really moot here as we treat them as live firearms anyway.But could be deffo alleviated along with a good few other firearms problems,if we had a proof house.Which I'm surprised the EU isn't taking Ireland to task on that one, as every other EU country has one, and as the UK isnt in the EU anymore, we cant send stuff to the UK to be proofed anymore either.

Feisar

Could you explain to the uninformed here what's involved in a proof house apart from sticking a double charge in a firearm and ducking behind a thick wall? I.e is it something a competent reloader could do or does it require a team of engineers? Surely there is the likes of a proofhouse reloading manual out there?

JP22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639917#Comment_118639917

I don't think its that simple Feisar.

Lots of Statutory Legislation to comply with.

Some reading hereunder.

https://www.gunproof.com/legislation

https://www.gunmakers.org.uk/the-proof-house/

Grizzly 45

A doctorate or advanced degree in metallurgy, engineering or explosives is a good starter as a proofer. You need to be a master proofer to be in charge of a proof house as well. Not to mind a govt employee, as the proof stamp, you apply is actually a state seal of office to a firearm that it is safe.IOW this isn't something that can't be fobbed off to a Public-Private enterprise with large profits to all. Probably why the Irish Govt bottled it in the 70s with this legislation. They didn't want to employ a master proofer from the UK or be held responsible for any mishaps.

Not having one is also leaving the Irish Govt wide open to litigation as well,as they are signing off gun dealers as being qualified as gunsmiths as well under current legislation. That means any Johnny Fuksticks who has a gun dealer license can also cobble together a gun or even ammo out of whatever parts and with little or no actual gunsmith experience or qualifications, and offer those for sale to whomever. If one of those guns explodes and causes death or injury, both the gunsmith and govt will be liable under consumer protection legislation. Even if it is a once-off custom made gun for you individually, it will be impossible for you to sell it to anyone else, both in Ireland or the EU as it isn't a proven gun. So us having a proof house would be of some benefit to us and the gunsmiths themselves in being able to sell to a EU wide market.

Mellor

Russia, continuing with the play book that the US laid bare, goes ahead and launches a full scale invasion. Crazy events imo. The whole world with a look at the script a week out. All western leaders playing in the big game now.

I'm honestly glad Trump isn't at the helm of the US right now. He wasn't cut out to sitting back and letting advisors and military leaders do their job. I assume he though this wasn't that seriious.

“I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius.’ Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine—of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. So, Putin is now saying, ‘It’s independent,’ a large section of Ukraine. I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s the strongest peace force. We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy, I know him very well. Very, very well.”

WTF? Literally praising the guy, a day before the most telegraphed invasion in history. Stevie Wonder saw this one coming. Of course, different story today.

“And it's a very sad thing for the world, for the country and it’s certainly very sad for a lot of people that are going to be needlessly killed,”

Some change in 24 hours.

Feisar

Who is Putin pandering to though or is he a head-the-ball?

Ah, makes sense now: "Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury."

In fairness he's only doing on his doorstep what the US went around the world to do.

Terrible what is happening over there.

I think it is as simple as Putin just trying to stop NATO further recruiting countries on Russian borders. A lot of tensions have been escalating for years now between the US and Russia so I'd say he will probably try to influence regime change that will be more pro-Russia. Then he will have control over two major countries on Russias border which he can use to bully other countries in the region. Like how Belarus have weaponised migrants against Poland.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118684554#Comment_118684554

That's what Putin said the conflict was over last year, I highly doubt he was telling the truth. Especially given his absolute the absolute nonsense he spouted.

I'd say it's purely about wanting Ukraine "back in the in USSR" given that was the soviet playbook forever. Obviously the natural resources are a banker too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118684883#Comment_118684883

Yeah, maybe you are right. Whatever the reasons are, hopefully it can be deescalated before things get too bad.

Grizzly 45

I'm honestly glad Trump isn't at the helm of the US right now. He wasn't cut out to sitting back and letting advisors and military leaders do their job. I assume he though this wasn't that seriious.

OH Lord.... Lets not even go there.As what is supposedly the commander in chief of the world's most powerful forces,is a senile puppet who is in charge of when he takes a nap and when his pudding is fed to him.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118684932#Comment_118684932

We are now in a World of hurt and we don't realise it even here in Ireland,how bad its going to get. To a point, I'd suggest, digging up those ol Civil defence plans on building a fallout shelter in the back garden time.

otmmyboy2

Some very interesting firearms related news from there, Ukraine invoked their emergencies act and have started issuing firearms to any civilian willing to use them in defence of Ukraine.

And this is an entirely separate initiative from expanding the citizen militia's and essentially national guard units there, but actually arming normal civilians.

Very interesting time in history between that and Canada stepping back from their emergency act over the freedom protest!

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118684932#Comment_118684932

I think "Too Bad" passed a few days ago tbh.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118684960#Comment_118684960

The difference between talk of puddings and naps, and other made of jokes. Is that the events I quoted literally happened. Anyone who thought invading Ukraine and savvy, or genius, shouldn't command a Jack Russel, let alone an army.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118684992#Comment_118684992

A scary situation for those guys MIG jets flying overhead as a massive army trundles towards your capital.

Grizzly 45

Should be interesting,as Ukraine seems to be one of the more permissive countries to own guns out East according to gunpolicy.org.[For whatever their dated info is worth.https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/ukraine.]

I do know that they have bought and distributed a lot of copies of Total Resistance.By the Swiss Major Von Dach. Considered the primer of how to run a guerrilla war and resistance to occupation.So it is going to get interesting in any ground the Russians conquer. Esp as the Ukrainians hate the Russian's guts with a passion, ever since Stalin tried to genocide them by famine in the 1930s.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118685180#Comment_118685180

We've already underestimated the commander of the Jack Russels in Moscow by events in the last 24 hours.About time the West learns when dealing with Putin the term "Maskirovka" is his daily bread and butter.

Mellor

Who underestimated him? Putin had done exactly what everyone said he was going to do.

Fakse flags, cyber attacks, disinformation, peacekeepers, claims to Ukraine attacks in Donbas. It was a checklist for all out invasion. The fact that regular Joe observers had this information before it happened is staggering.

I certainly wouldn’t describe Putin as a Jack Russel.

Feisar

How far West does Russia have to go before it runs into a nuclear power?

tomtucker81