Suspected Terrorist Attack in Paris

WinnyThePoo

Beyondgone wrote: »

Walls. Lots of walls. Pretty much.

If only real life was age of empires.

BoatMad

greencap wrote: »

And the answer to this is what?

a limit to the amount of characters that you can post ??:D

Dublin Pintman

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

If only real life was age of empires.

I remember how the Muslims were painted as the good guys in that game. Not even joking.

CoolHandBandit

They used to call Beirut the Paris of the Middle East. Now Paris is the Beirut of the West.

BoatMad

Beyondgone wrote: »

Walls. Lots of walls. Pretty much.

which tends to stimulate the production of ladders

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

MysticMonk , if you could stop copypasta and actually have a considered thought of your own , rather then posting nonsense, wed all be fine

Shush he's too busy placing bets online.

Thankfully some good news - the second police officer has been confirmed to not have his life in danger any more.

Beyondgone

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

If only real life was age of empires.

Big walls make for quiet neighbours. Quiet is good enough for me. I can suffer on without "happy neighbours". Quiet will do.

Dublin Pintman

CoolHandBandit wrote: »

They used to call Beirut the Paris of the Middle East. Now Paris is the Beirut of the West.

Could be worse. Malmo is now the Mogadishu of the west.

Mountainsandh

BoatMad wrote: »

I would argue that in other too maintain a free and open lifestyle , we are in fact going to have to accept the fact that such a lifestyle;e leaves us vulnerable to sections that wish too exploit that " openness ". Turning us int a police state is not the solution to protect us from people " that want to turn us into a police state "

Secondly we need to look seriously at the underlying issues, both in the Wests involvement in the ME, and in the decades of ghettoisation that has been common place in Europe ( including Sweden ) . This issue didnt start " from nowhere " .

Bull****.

On your first point : accepting that your lifestyle leaves you vulnerable to killers is in fact also satisfying the killers' intentions. The jihad action aims to kill infidels, and force states into submission to their regime. If they kill enough infidels, they will obviously in time achieve their purpose.

I agree in that I do not think the solution to the problem is to restrict our freedoms more, I think the solution is to restrict their freedom.

That is, a temporary but blanket stop to immigration, deportations for immigrant and double nationality criminals, and much more efficient sanctions and deportations for hate preachers.
The toughest is of course the blanket immigration ban, it involves refusing access to innocent people. This is the crux of the matter imo, and the most heart breaking aspect. However, let's remember that more innocent Muslims also live in France and elsewhere in Europe currently, and that they also are targets to extremists. If you cannot protect all, protect the few that you can.

On your second point : "gettoisation" : no.
I grew up in France.
Everything was going good until terrorism and extremism came along.
In fact, it's not so much my generation (40s) that is getting radicalized, and I would argue that the Muslims in their 40s, 50s, and 60s currently in France are the best examples of integration.

30s, 20s and under seem to radicalize in greater numbers.
Extremism reaching into France and targeting these youngsters is what resulted in such a disastrous situation.

Yes of course, the suburbs and poverty lead to revolt, riots, and discontentment. The attacks we are currently witnessing are not revolts, riots, and discontentment against the government.
The boys from the suburbs who burn cars and throw stones at the police ? They wouldn't kill little girls, grannies and mums and dads watching the fireworks.


Extreme islamists do.

WinnyThePoo

Dublin Pintman wrote: »

I remember how the Muslims were painted as the good guys in that game. Not even joking.

eh........

Don't think you played the same game as i did.

BoatMad

CoolHandBandit wrote: »

They used to call Beirut the Paris of the Middle East. Now Paris is the Beirut of the West.

The french are reaping decades of ghettoisation and poor treatment of Africans and their former imperial subjects. They are not labelled "sous-piers" out of kindness.

Any visit to the darker parts of Paris, Tolon, Nice, Marseille and elsewhere in the last 20 years would be sufficient to see what was being stored up there

Dublin Pintman

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

eh........

Don't think you played the same game as i did.

AOE 2. You played as the noble Saracens during the Crusades campaign. Now that I'm older I see it for the propaganda that it was.

Widdershins

BoatMad wrote: »

I would argue that in other too maintain a free and open lifestyle , we are in fact going to have to accept the fact that such a lifestyle;e leaves us vulnerable to sections that wish too exploit that " openness ". Turning us int a police state is not the solution to protect us from people " that want to turn us into a police state "

Secondly we need to look seriously at the underlying issues, both in the Wests involvement in the ME, and in the decades of ghettoisation that has been common place in Europe ( including Sweden ) . This issue didnt start " from nowhere " .

This article is very interesting and charts the rise in fanatical Islam in France. It interviews Muslims who share their memories of when they noticed the changes and the first signs of radicalisation. This is the underlying issue. Continually blaming Western ''involvement'' is little more than deflection from that.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/05/magazine/france-election-gilles-kepel-islam.html?smid=fb-share&_r=1

CoolHandBandit

Security expert on TV just there said "the number of potential shooters in France is staggering"....and the French security services are overrun with possible suspect jihadists

BoatMad

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Bull****.

On your first point : accepting that your lifestyle leaves you vulnerable to killers is in fact also satisfying the killers' intentions. The jihad action aims to kill infidels, and force states into submission to their regime. If they kill enough infidels, they will obviously in time achieve their purpose.

Islam , targets Europe in exactly the same way , the IRA targeted London. Striking at vulnerable civilians, when you cant attack Eurofigthers that are bombing you from the air etc. Our lifestyle leaves us vulnerable , its a price we will pay, until we broker peace in the ME and not bomb everyone.

I agree in that I do not think the solution to the problem is to restrict our freedoms more, I think the solution is to restrict their freedom.

yes the MIndScanner100o can look into the suspects mind and we can lock him up from what he might do in the future . good thinking

That is, a temporary but blanket stop to immigration, deportations for immigrant and double nationality criminals, and much more efficient sanctions and deportations for hate preachers.

That only leaves several millions European born muslims, that haven't " yet" committed a crime, and are currently watching whats happening in the ME on TV , while living in a ghetto , The Immigrants are not actually the problem .

The toughest is of course the blanket immigration ban, it involves refusing access to innocent people. This is the crux of the matter imo, and the most heart breaking aspect. However, let's remember that more innocent Muslims also live in France and elsewhere in Europe currently, and that they also are targets to extremists. If you cannot protect all, protect the few that you can.

Again the issue is domestically born radicals that have not yet committed a crime . nothing you suggest has addressed that . Immigrants are not the issue

On your second point : "gettoisation" : no.
I grew up in France.
Everything was going good until terrorism and extremism came along.
In fact, it's not so much my generation (40s) that is getting radicalized, and I would argue that the Muslims in their 40s, 50s, and 60s currently in France are the best examples of integration.

nonsense , look back at the riots in paris

30s, 20s and under seem to radicalize in greater numbers.
Extremism reaching into France and targeting these youngsters is what resulted in such a disastrous situatio

n.

NO, Frances policies and the effect of recession on the poorest led to the beginnings of radicalisation , bombing the backside of the ME completed the task.

Yes of course, the suburbs and poverty lead to revolt, riots, and discontentment. The attacks we are currently witnessing are not revolts, riots, and discontentment against the government.
The boys from the suburbs who burn cars and throw stones at the police ? They wouldn't kill little girls, grannies and mums and dads watching the fireworks.

Once they are radicalised enough , the boys " from the burbs" think that bombing a group of complete civilians including young people , standing around a war memorial is " acceptable ". radicalisation is a curious thing isnt it.

Extreme islamists do.

and lots of other radicalised groups also

K.Flyer

Gringo180 wrote: »

Indeed. Its no coincidence radical Islam has gained more recruits since the illegal invasion of Iraq. Islamic terror attacks was unheard of in Europe before the invasion. Was the London bombings in 2007 the first ever terror attack in the history of the British state by Islamic nutjobs?

Iraq invasion was 2003
Lockerbie was December 1988.
There was a car bomb at the Israeli Embassy in London in July 1994.
As for Islamic or Jihadist attacks in Europe, in April 1985 there was a bomb in Madrid, in June 1985 Greece had the TWA highjacking and in July 1985 there was a bombing in Copenhagen.
France had a spate of bombings in July 1995 and in October 1995 there was a car bombing of a Police station in Croatia and in September 1997, Al Qaeda set off a car bomb in Mostar in Bosnia.
Bombing and terrorism in europe is nothing new. What we are seeing now is much less complicated and cruder acts of terrorism being carried out.

WinnyThePoo

Dublin Pintman wrote: »

AOE 2. You played as the noble Saracens during the Crusades campaign. Now that I'm older I see it for the propaganda that it was.

You also played as Joan of Arc . Is that propaganda

You also played as Attila the hun. Is that propaganda

Hell you even play as barbarossa.

You haven't the foggiest.

Richard Hillman

It's no coincidence that western intervention in the middle East increased after 9/11.

Call Me Jimmy

Il Fascista wrote: »

Isn't that unavoidable though? Every ideology seems to eventually go too far. I'm right wing, but even I fear people eventually being forced to vote for far right politicians.

Left and Right are equally dangerous at their end points. Thats why it's important for politics to sine wave around the center. Before the left was needed to haul us back from the right, the opposite is now the case. If you completely think one side is inherently evil (like people seem to think about the right recently) THEN watch it get bad.

BoatMad

Widdershins wrote: »

This article is very interesting and charts the rise in fanatical Islam in France. It interviews Muslims who share their memories of when they noticed the changes and the first signs of radicalisation. This is the underlying issue. Continually blaming Western ''involvement'' is little more than deflection from that.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/05/magazine/france-election-gilles-kepel-islam.html?smid=fb-share&_r=1

of course his erstwhile and equally erudite former friend , Mr Roy, also a noted scholar and Islam pundit

“He’s sincere the way a madman is,” he added. “He’s not a thinker. He’s not a philosopher.”

BoatMad

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It's no coincidence that western intervention in the middle East increased after 9/11.

indeed when arguably the opposite should have occurred

Il Fascista

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Left and Right are equally dangerous at their end points. Thats why it's important for politics to sine wave around the center. Before the left was needed to haul us back from the right, the opposite is now the case. If you completely think one side is unnessecary forever (like people seem to think about the right recently) THEN watch it get bad.

I agree.

The balancing act would be much easier though if mainstream opinion didn't deem one side good, and the other bad. The perception of the good fighting the bad is probably the most blinding thing in politics.

Dublin Pintman

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

You also played as Joan of Arc . Is that propaganda

You also played as Attila the hun. Is that propaganda

Hell you even play as barbarossa.

You haven't the foggiest.

Eh..Saladin presented as the unquestionably the 'good guy'...

Mountainsandh

BoatMad;103281571]Islam , targets Europe in exactly the same way , the IRA targeted London. Striking at vulnerable civilians, when you cant attack Eurofigthers that are bombing you from the air etc. Our lifestyle leaves us vulnerable , its a price we will pay, until we broker peace in the ME and not bomb everyone.

Still wrong.
It's not Islam but islamism that targets innocent infidels as a token of jihad.
What are you proposing to do, smother them with kindness ?
Do you really think that a complete withdrawal from all action in the ME is going to stop jihad ?
Do you realize that such action is likely to result in the deaths and suffering of many more innocent Muslims than an attempt to limit immigration in Europe ?

yes the MIndScanner100o can look into the suspects mind and we can lock him up from what he might do in the future . good thinking

There's a great, very efficient system called "intelligence". In France for example, individuals are placed into the S register. Now if stricter sanctions and deportation were available quicker and more readily, someone like tonight's attacker might very well have not been in the country. That would have made it difficult to carry out the attack for him you see.
The guys in intelligence are very intelligent, but a bit powerless too at the moment.

That only leaves several millions European born muslims, that haven't " yet" committed a crime, and are currently watching whats happening in the ME on TV , while living in a ghetto , The Immigrants are not actually the problem ....Again the issue is domestically born radicals that have not yet committed a crime . nothing you suggest has addressed that . Immigrants are not the issue

Numbers.
Intelligence and the police forces on the continent are great, but they are no match for the resident population + a steady stream of incoming population.

Restrict numbers, deal with what's there.
That's the only way to deal with this.

nonsense , look back at the riots in paris

Did they kill lots of little children ? tourists ? people in concerts ?
Dammit I missed that.

NO, Frances policies and the effect of recession on the poorest led to the beginnings of radicalisation , bombing the backside of the ME completed the task.
Once they are radicalised enough , the boys " from the burbs" think that bombing a group of complete civilians including young people , standing around a war memorial is " acceptable ". radicalisation is a curious thing isnt it.
and lots of other radicalised groups also

[/QUOTE]

Radicalization happens when extreme islamists brainwash the youngsters into it.
Extreme islamists reached Europe because of lax immigration policies.

What is your solution ?
Are extreme islamists going to stop their brainwashing once we stop all action in the ME ?
Are the currently radicalized youngsters going to stop killings once we stop all action in the ME ?

the MIndScanner100o might come in handy there.

Andy From Sligo

am I being unrealistic or simplistic but when we keep hearing "the suspect was known to authorities" - why now aren't all people that are 'on the radar' for one reason or another in each country not checked out now before they cause atrocities (or potentially cause them) - if they are found to be following/supporting ISIS or their gaffs searched and material found where they support this and their ideologies then immediately arrested, detained and if not supposed to be in the country they were arrested in then deported and if they are born in the country arrested for being part of/supporting an illegal terrorist group and locked up? - it might help save lives and prevent future attacks? - I know it might stir up 'presumed innocent until proven guilty' blah blah blah and seem OTT and human rights infringed but haven't we got to this stage now that more has to be done than just waiting for someone to carry out an attack only to be told "the assailant was known to authorities" or "the assailant was known to the authorities but was not deemed a threat" ?

Omackeral

CoolHandBandit wrote: »

In the space of just over four weeks Europe has had 4 terrorist attacks.

Westminster, Uk.
Stockholm, Sweden.
Borussia Dortmund, Germany.
Paris, France.

This is the reality now for Europe. Well done Merkel and Co.

Europe's never been safer! TM

Widdershins

BoatMad wrote: »

of course his erstwhile and equally erudite former friend , Mr Roy, also a noted scholar and Islam pundit

“He’s sincere the way a madman is,” he added. “He’s not a thinker. He’s not a philosopher.”

That's settled that, then. :rolleyes:

Richard Hillman

As Shane Ross said this week "If you could save one person's life, would you?"


If we could introduce internment for Islamist Sympathisers, would you?

WinnyThePoo

Dublin Pintman wrote: »

Eh..Saladin presented as the unquestionably the 'good guy'...

So was William Wallace.

So was Joan of Arc

So was Barbrossa

Reach harder lad.

tomwaterford

Richard Hillman wrote: »

As Shane Ross said this week "If you could save one person's life, would you?"


If we could introduce internment for Islamist Sympathisers, would you?

No..... Look up the road at what happenes when they bought in interment.....it galvanised support for the ira??


Has this been ruled out as having anyting to dp with the week long rioting over police brutality few months ago??
-perhaps someones getting even?