All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

dastardly00

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

The writing was on the wall for the Kilkenny team from very early in 2013, we all knew it was a matter of who would beat us, not if we'd be beaten. There was just a consensus that the one thing that was unacceptable was losing to Tipp in Nowlan Park. Once they got over that anything else would have been a bonus. Cork beat us because we were flat. If they hadn't, Clare, or Dublin, or whoever, would have beaten us. This notion that if we had played Clare we'd have beaten them doesn't hold much credibility for me.

I wholeheartedly agree!

The Golden Miller

Conas wrote: »

They beat a 14 man Kilkenny, as Shefflin was sent off after 30mins, which you didn't mention.

Clare beat a Cork team that was half as good as their current team. Their forwards looked good, against quiet frankly a dreadful Cork full back line.

Cork were the better team even before Shefflin got sent off. They just had the bit between their teeth that day, no way were they letting that game slip against 14 or 15 men

The Golden Miller

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Cork were the better team even before Shefflin got sent off. They just had the bit between their teeth that day, no way were they letting that game slip against 14 or 15 men

Actually if i recall, Cork nearly let it slip against 14. They hurled alot better against 15 men

mountgomery burns

letowski wrote: »

He was 100% from placed balls in the Munster final.

You are probably right though that he doesn't get the level of criticism as Gleeson does. But for me both management's are not focusing them properly. Yes, sometimes giving them shoot on site licenses can have great results, but no one player is greater than the some of the parts. As they play around midfield, they need to play roles that brings other players into the game and use the ball the way the team wants to play. Kelly is not being held fully accountable for some of his reckless and to be frank, selfish decisions he is making on the ball.

Sorry must have been the Limerick game he was poor so? To be fair, management took him off today which was a sign they recognize the issue.

I did note one thing with Gleeson the last day, he played the pass for Barrons goal. The thing is, nobody will remember that. I'm not saying its outstanding play or anything, just that he took the right option but we won't be talking about that at the end of the year. It'll be about the terrific scores or poor wides, nobody ever remembers team play in reality.

Thought Noel McGrath was really excellent today. Great to see after what he has been through and being dropped the last day.

Realt Dearg Sec

mountgomery burns wrote: »

nobody ever remembers team play in reality.

I dunno, Brick Walsh and Bonnar Maher would probably disagree with that to be fair

letowski

mountgomery burns wrote:

I did note one thing with Gleeson the last day, he played the pass for Barrons goal. The thing is, nobody will remember that. I'm not saying its outstanding play or anything, just that he took the right option but we won't be talking about that at the end of the year. It'll be about the terrific scores or poor wides, nobody ever remembers team play in reality.

Infairness to Aussie, he is only about 22 so he is still a few years off from maturing fully. I think also the way Waterford play, their players are told to shoot from distance more than other counties and Aussie probably feels he should take on the responsibility the most, which is a tough task.

I dont know why things have been poor for Kelly on the otherhand. I think the best thing Clare could do is let him rest after the long year he has had and bring him back maybe late March next year.

The growler

Davys Fits wrote: »

Great stadium in PUC. The pitch was very slippery especially under the south stand and a bit dug up in this area too. Was this due to some rain in that area that didnt get the sunshine to dry it out?

Sad when the goalkeper and his puckuts become the biggest topic in a hurling matah. In the great game of years ago the Keepers job was to deliver the ball as long a s possible into his opponents half. Reason being there is a 50/50 chance of creating a scoring chance but also a much lower chance of creating a scoring chance for the opposition. Clever tactics and the egos creating these tactics on the sideline are ruining the game. Too many clever boys on the sideline. Christ bring me back to hurling on the pitch.
Clares shooting was woefull but Im not going to put the boot into Tony Kelly who was probably the greatest culprit but owes Clare nothing.

Now that type of analysis really annoys me regarding Clare. You've mentioned the "clever puckouts" and "clever boys on the sideline" (sarcastically). The goalkeeper didn't do much wrong, and you can't blame management for some of the awful wides Clare drove. Regarding Tony Kelly, what does he have to do to be dropped? He is a great player but has been woeful this year.

When are people going to stop making excuses for Clare and just accept they won a soft All Ireland in 2013?

Minderbinder

R00ster wrote: »

The White Feather wrote: »

They said Red would have faded in the sun and look pink. There was some team in England that had this happen. They had to rip up all the seats and put in new ones so it gets very costly

Also happened in Dalymount Park in Dublin. Took only ten years for them to go from red to practically white:

I'm sure there are better quality seats available that obviously cost more money than some are willing to pay.

Just look at the aisles in Dalymount, it looks filthy. I'd say they don't look after it at all.

Really think they've skimped out on the seats in Cork. Looks unfinished. If the sun is an issue I just wonder how much it would cost to get some large sheets of material to cover the seats most exposed to sunlight? It surely would be worth it to make it look a lot better.

Pablo Escobar

Minderbinder wrote: »

I'm sure there are better quality seats available that obviously cost more money than some are willing to pay.

Just look at the aisles in Dalymount, it looks filthy. I'd say they don't look after it at all.

Really think they've skimped out on the seats in Cork. Looks unfinished. If the sun is an issue I just wonder how much it would cost to get some large sheets of material to cover the seats most exposed to sunlight? It surely would be worth it to make it look a lot better.

Tbf the reason that section of Dalymount looks that bad is that it has been condemned and is out-of-use. The whole stadium is to be knocked and re-developed.

deaddonkey15

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Sorry must have been the Limerick game he was poor so? To be fair, management took him off today which was a sign they recognize the issue.

David Reidy took the placed balls against Limerick and missed 5. Didn't think there was an issue with Tony Kelly's frees yesterday. He missed one or two tricky ones but I wouldn't have expected Reidy to do any better after his horror show against Limerick.

mountgomery burns

letowski wrote: »

Infairness to Aussie, he is only about 22 so he is still a few years off from maturing fully. I think also the way Waterford play, their players are told to shoot from distance more than other counties and Aussie probably feels he should take on the responsibility the most, which is a tough task.

I dont know why things have been poor for Kelly on the otherhand. I think the best thing Clare could do is let him rest after the long year he has had and bring him back maybe late March next year.

Point I was making is he gets a lot of criticism but I don't anybody noticed the few examples of him actually addressing that the last day, and hes not going to win hurler of the year for passing to his team mates. So while people might say all hes missing is the team play, all most people will be looking at is the score beside his name after each game.

mountgomery burns

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I dunno, Brick Walsh and Bonnar Maher would probably disagree with that to be fair

Bonner is rated in Tipp to be fair but missed out on an all star in 2012 that Seamus Callinan wouldn't have. He'll never win a hurler of the year even though I know Tipp fans who rate him as their most important player.

Dunno how many times Ive read in the last two years that Brick should be dropped. I think those two actually go along way to proving my point.

Powerhouse

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Galway's title 2 lose .

It's amazing how this view has become the latest mantra of group-think when you remind yourself that the sum total of Galway's championship achievement this year has been beating Dublin & Wexford. Cork, for example, have done far more.

Reputable Rog

Based on yesterday and the fact that I think Galway are over hyped I think it's no 31 for Cork.

donnem33

Powerhouse wrote: »

It's amazing how this view has become the latest mantra of group-think when you remind yourself that the sum total of Galway's championship achievement this year has been beating Dublin & Wexford. Cork, for example, have done far more.

Galway can only beat whats infront of them!!!

PS you forgot about Offaly

Powerhouse

donnem33 wrote: »

Galway can only beat whats infront of them!!!

I'm not expecting them to beat teams they don't actually play in all fairness. I'm just wondering how beating Dublin, Wexford (and Offaly) is now regarded as sufficient evidence to make a team near-certainties for the All Ireland (Galway's to lose etc.)?

Powerhouse

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Based on yesterday and the fact that I think Galway are over hyped I think it's no 31 for Cork.

I wouldn't be sure yesterday is relevant to the destination of the All Ireland but certainly Cork have done more in the championship than Galway. Never saw a team hyped so much so quickly and on the basis of so little as this Galway team.

Davys Fits

The growler wrote: »

Now that type of analysis really annoys me regarding Clare. You've mentioned the "clever puckouts" and "clever boys on the sideline" (sarcastically). The goalkeeper didn't do much wrong, and you can't blame management for some of the awful wides Clare drove. Regarding Tony Kelly, what does he have to do to be dropped? He is a great player but has been woeful this year.

When are people going to stop making excuses for Clare and just accept they won a soft All Ireland in 2013?

The role of the Keeper is being over unitised as I explained earlier. Both of the Clare goals in the first half came from long direct balls in from the defence. The goalkeeper has the range to hit the half forward line of further so why not use it. There have been too many goalkeepers on the sideline for Clare with dumb tactics. There are too many variables in hurling for these kind of precision tactics. Hitting the ball out to a loose corner back is also questionable. The corner back then does exaclty what the Keeper could have done and hits the ball down into the half forward line. Why, Why, Why?
Yes the management are not to blame for the shooting. I never said they were.

I said

Powerhouse wrote: »

I wouldn't be sure yesterday is relevant to the destination of the All Ireland but certainly Cork have done more in the championship than Galway. Never saw a team hyped so much so quickly and on the basis of so little as this Galway team.

Cork are crowing since beating tipp the hype machine is all about cork.
Galway have beaten what's in font of them not their problem if Wexford win today that changes everything again.

jr86

Powerhouse wrote: »

I wouldn't be sure yesterday is relevant to the destination of the All Ireland but certainly Cork have done more in the championship than Galway. Never saw a team hyped so much so quickly and on the basis of so little as this Galway team.

It's so reminiscent of mayo in 2013 (excuse the football comparison)

Cork are absolutely buzzing, still under the radar somehow despite winning Munster

RebelRebel2

I think people are taking Galway's performance in the league final into account too...It was awesome how they demolished the current AI champs

jr86

I said wrote: »

Cork are crowing since beating tipp the hype machine is all about cork.

Lol what??? It is? I don't honestly know anyone -and I'm serious - who has actually predicted cork for the all Ireland even at this stage

I said

jr86 wrote: »

Lol what??? It is? I don't honestly know anyone -and I'm serious - who has actually predicted cork for the all Ireland even at this stage

Ah jaysus are you in a media black out the fans crowing Facebook and twitter and the cork swagger even in they way they are talking this years hurling.
A tipp team in disarray.
A Waterford team after a 3 month lay off.
A Clare team that scored 1-20 and still made a bollox of it agains cork and fcuked it away against tipp.
So probably in the same boat as galway as far as been tested yet.

Powerhouse

I said wrote: »

Ah jaysus are you in a media black out the fans crowing Facebook and twitter and the cork swagger even in they way they are talking this years hurling.
A tipp team in disarray.
A Waterford team after a 3 month lay off.
A Clare team that scored 1-20 and still made a bollox of it agains cork and fcuked it away against tipp.
So probably in the same boat as galway as far as been tested yet.

Clare fcuked it away against Tipp? Did they really? There were 47 scores in the game and the only time Clare led was in the first minute by 0-1 to 0-0. Tipperary scored 23 points from play, Clare scored 10. Anyone who thinks Clare "fcuked away" that game is delusional. As in the Munster Final they were decidedly second best.

Powerhouse

RebelRebel2 wrote: »

I think people are taking Galway's performance in the league final into account too...It was awesome how they demolished the current AI champs

League hurling is irrelevant.

Powerhouse

jr86 wrote: »

Cork are absolutely buzzing, still under the radar somehow despite winning Munster

Absolutely. Sure nobody has noticed them at all.

I said

Powerhouse wrote: »

Clare fcuked it away against Tipp? Did they really? There were 47 scores in the game and the only time Clare led was in the first minute by 0-1 to 0-0. Tipperary scored 23 points from play, Clare scored 10. Anyone who thinks Clare "fcuked away" that game is delusional. As in the Munster Final they were decidedly second best.

Total wides and a lot of them under no pressure tipp were there for the taking and Clare messed up

I said

Powerhouse wrote: »

It's amazing how this view has become the latest mantra of group-think when you remind yourself that the sum total of Galway's championship achievement this year has been beating Dublin & Wexford. Cork, for example, have done far more.

Galway are favourites based on past performances finalists in 15 lost semi by a point last year and this years performances can only beat what's in front of them.
It's not like years ago when galway had to be ready for AI semi final all guns blazing and then try to maintain that level against teams getting more game time in Munster and Leinster in AI final.
Galway in Leinster is now beginning to show them the benefits of more games no matter the opposition.

Powerhouse

I said wrote: »

Total wides and a lot of them under no pressure tipp were there for the taking and Clare messed up

Wides are bad play not bad luck. The whole point of the game is to score. If you cannot you lose. Clare had only four fewer wides in the Munster Final. It is a pattern with that team.

Powerhouse

I said wrote: »

Galway are favourites based on past performances finalists in 15 lost semi by a point last year and this years performances can only beat what's in front of them.

What has 2015 got to do with anything? If that were the yardstick Kilkenny would still be there since they won that year. Galway made the final in 2012 and didn't kick on. They made the final in 2015 and didn't kick on last year either.

I just don't get the "can only beat what's in front of them" thing. Nobody expects them to beat a team they are not actually playing. But it is fair to wonder at their "it's theirs to lose" rating considering the fate that awaited some of the teams they played when they met other teams - Dublin hammered by Tipperary (by more than Galway beat them) and Offaly hammered by Waterford (by more than Galway beat them). That suggests that Galway are pretty much in the pack and have it all to prove.