Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Chuchote

Feckofff wrote: »

I am hoping that the works are part of the dodder greenway.
The council engineer wisely suggested that at least that stretch be combined with the flood defence works.

I have my fingers crossed!

That's what I was wondering too. Hope… :rolleyes:

Type 17

The proposed greenway between Ballsbridge and Donnybrook is already in place, as it exists as the path beside Herbert Park on the other side of the river.

The works in the pics above are likely a temporary installation (done in summer when the river level/risk of a flood is low) to allow heavy machinery to access the river wall on the Anglesea Road side. It is the last section around there that is yet to be upgraded.

Chuchote

Type 17 wrote: »

The proposed greenway between Ballsbridge and Donnybrook is already in place, as it exists as the path beside Herbert Park on the other side of the river.

Surely that's only a tiny part of the proposed greenway, which is projected to stretch all along the river from Glenasmole to Sandymount, "from the mountains to the sea"?

I cycle along part of the Dodder very often, and while some of it is set up for cycling offroad, a lot isn't.

Type 17

Yes, of course it's only a tiny bit, but that bit (Ballsbridge to Donnybrook) basically exists already, it probably just needs some signs and paint - the rest of the greenway is another story...

Chuchote

Type 17 wrote: »

Yes, of course it's only a tiny bit, but that bit (Ballsbridge to Donnybrook) basically exists already, it probably just needs some signs and paint - the rest of the greenway is another story...

Mmmno. It exists along Baggotrath to the side of Herbert Park. But exactly where they're building, if you're riding a bike you're diverted onto a busy, traffic-heavy road - you have to turn right across "The Bridge at Herbert Park", then go left along Anglesea Road and left again along Merrion Road (where Roly's is) before turning right into Beatty's Avenue and then being led into the walkway along the river and getting away from the traffic again.

If they're actually building a connecting line between Baggotrath and Beatty's Avenue, it will save lives; many's the moment of terror I've had on that zigzag along Anglesea Road and Merrion Road.

Type 17

Chuchote wrote: »

Mmmno. It exists along Baggotrath to the side of Herbert Park. But exactly where they're building, if you're riding a bike you're diverted onto a busy, traffic-heavy road - you have to turn right across "The Bridge at Herbert Park", then go left along Anglesea Road and left again along Merrion Road (where Roly's is) before turning right into Beatty's Avenue and then being led into the walkway along the river and getting away from the traffic again.

If they're actually building a connecting line between Baggotrath and Beatty's Avenue, it will save lives; many's the moment of terror I've had on that zigzag along Anglesea Road and Merrion Road.

Fair enough, the very last bit of the path was "lost" to private development (offices and the hotel), so there is a gap that needs attention.

papu

How was that ever a good move, there was no traffic behind me, the fool in the yellow box is as much to blame as the girl in the white car. A perfect storm of incompetence .

CramCycle

Schools are back as well as the craziness that goes with it. Heart came out my mouth this morning passing a secondary school when a car decided just as I passed a junction to pull across me. I let a roar and slammed on, my heart nearly projecting out my mouth in shock. He managed to stop, but never moved his head, acknowledged what had happened or turned his gaze from the straight ahead fixated blank stare he had.

Other person at the junction had a look of, oh christ on a bike, I am so glad I don't have to ring an ambulance.

I would not have minded so much had he just turned and said sorry, my mistake, but he didn't even move.

Chuchote

CramCycle wrote: »

Other person at the junction had a look of, oh christ on a bike

Nobody told me He has returned? I never knew.

Mine, today, not so much a near miss as a definite irritation. I'm sailing along Upper Rathmines Road at a moderate speed but soaking wet and cold in a sudden heavy shower, when a Mummy comes sauntering across, her back to the traffic, leading her pink-dressed little one by the hand. I ring the bell and roar "Look out!" and she turns around and pouts "Slow down!" I was going at walking speed, but of course it wasn't her fault…

Some people shouldn't be put in charge of children.

CramCycle

Chuchote wrote: »

Nobody told me He has returned? I never knew.

I have a beard and a suntan, a god complex, the mistake is easy to make. I am probably a bit taller though, and less of a well meaning con artist, more a ill meaning con artist.

Some people shouldn't be put in charge of children.

Co worker telling me about a cargo bike that sailed across a yellow box through a junction as crossing traffic was moving across, with two kids in the box and with a dog tied to a lead hanging out the side/back of the bike and struggling to keep up. You are indeed correct.

The parking at our local school is so bad that they had to curtail the local bus service between 12:30 and 3pm.

Madness at that time of day. Why people need to park up at 12:30 to pick up billy and johhny at 2 or 3 is beyond me. It gets worse theres a bloody car park there they won't use as that might mean it takes them longer to get out, no they'd rather park up on the grass or block footpaths and cycle lanes :mad:

Used to go that way as a short cut and avoid the main road and lights etc at the start of my spin route but it's not worth the blood pressure both at their parking and the worry of car doors of which I've narrowly avoided twice in 2 days.

Danbo!

I'm on the bike before 7am so have actually found the roads quieter each morning this week as the school rush is later.

Having said that, I had 2 close calls today- a Garda armed support unit cut across me this morning with driver on phone. I know they're allowed to use their phone in the course of Garda business, but there was no indicator used

Then on the quays got skimmed by a van who I assumed was just skipping traffic, but was actually taking the left about 10ft ahead of me, so got a very close left hook - Let a roar and got a sheepish apology wave.

Bunny Colvin

I respect cyclists on the road, I appreciate their right to be there. However, where I live, you'd want to be crazy to even consider getting on a bike. Simply put, there's just too many ****e drivers out there, coupled with the fact that the roads themselves are narrow and full of dangerous bends. It's all about odds and statistics, keep playing with fire and you'll get burned.

Chuchote

CramCycle wrote: »

Co worker telling me about a cargo bike that sailed across a yellow box through a junction as crossing traffic was moving across, with two kids in the box and with a dog tied to a lead hanging out the side/back of the bike and struggling to keep up. You are indeed correct.

Dúirt bean liom go ndúirt bean léi go ndúirt bean eile gur inis bean di…

However, in a story like that what infuriates me is the poor dog - why on earth wouldn't the eejit bring the dog into the cargo box?

Deleted User wrote: »

The parking at our local school is so bad that they had to curtail the local bus service between 12:30 and 3pm.

:eek: Something terribly wrong there :eek:

AndrewJRenko

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

I respect cyclists on the road, I appreciate their right to be there. However, where I live, you'd want to be crazy to even consider getting on a bike. Simply put, there's just too many ****e drivers out there, coupled with the fact that the roads themselves are narrow and full of dangerous bends. It's all about odds and statistics, keep playing with fire and you'll get burned.

Are we talking about Ireland here? What kind of area? Do you see many cyclists around?

Chuchote

Reports going around about a weirdo spitting at women on bikes along the canal. Anyone encountered this?

queldy

Hi,

had a near miss in this roundabout here, and since it is the last of a (very) long series it made me thing there is something wrong in the way I approach it.
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3170076,-6.3336961,18.5z?hl=en

I'd ask you a few questions.

1) Imagine I (person on bike, motorcycle or even in a car, doesn't make difference) am coming from Greenhill Rd and I need to take Cromwellsfort Rd; the way I would take the roundabout, in the safest way as possible, from what I learned, is enter in the roundabout, stay on the external line, sign left before approaching the exit, and then take the exit; here I am not suggesting the use of the internal line at all, I could move there to speed up the process and move on the external line safely before the exit etc, but let's leave the internal line for now. I said as I would approach the roundabout in the safest way, so just use the external line till my exit.
First question is: is this strategy wrong? I mean, is this the correct regulation on how to approach a roundabout in Ireland?

If my behaviour is not correct, please could you tell me how to approach it the correct way?
If instead it is correct, please go to question 2)

2) It happened to me many many times to be safely on the external line, going safely in circle till my exit, that some drivers come from the internal line faster than me and need to go out before me, cutting my way or having to slow down not to crash on me. So yesterday (and I was with my motorcycle [sorry...], so we can't argue that I was slow or I did not have my high-vis jacket or whatever) that happened again, and the driver even honked at me (that is why I am asking you here if there is anything wrong in what I am doing and please explain me how to, or maybe he was just an idiot).
So, if point 1) is correct and 2) is happening very often, how do you do approach safely a roundabout like this?

Some of you would suggest to take the line with decision and show I am there - yes I do! I am not afraid of taking the line with force and show them I am not gonna give up only because I am on a bike, but here it is not about this... it is about survival.

Some would suggest to take the inside line to be faster and then go external when needed - yes I've done it often, but it is not so safe either, considering you have to search for eye contact with lot of cars coming from different directions, and especially considering that if you are on a bike they often do not see you or they often do not care, and so on. Taking the internal line with a bike feels to me also like you will be often pushed from the car coming on your left on the external line, they go faster and they do not usually care if you need to go left. (In the specific case of this roundabout, cars are getting in it very fast, they are not always slowing down as they should)

Some of you would suggest to avoid that roundabout (or similar ones) - yes, I also do but not always I can.

Thanks for the suggestions!

ThisRegard

Deleted User wrote: »

It gets worse theres a bloody car park there they won't use as that might mean it takes them longer to get out,

I think it's a Dept of Ed thing now that for new schools, or schools getting their grounds renovated, not to include public parking, so they should be thankful they even have a carpark.


Re: The Walkinstown Roundabout, when I have to navigate it I just do so as if I'm a pedestrian by doing a frogger over each entry point to it using the traffic islands. All bets are off when it comes to any logic around that yoke.

queldy

Danbo! wrote: »

Working from home today and off tomorrow so no cycling til wednesday - are the schools back today? Any heavier than usual traffic?

Yes, definitely heavier than usual for me.

amcalester

queldy wrote: »

Hi,

had a near miss in this roundabout here, and since it is the last of a (very) long series it made me thing there is something wrong in the way I approach it.
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3170076,-6.3336961,18.5z?hl=en

Walkinstown roundabout is free for all whether you're in a car or on a bike, very few people know how to use it properly. If possible I'd look for an alternative route.

FWIW I've had the same experiences as you on the bike. I've tried taking the lane, staying in either the inside/outside lane doesnt seem to make a difference there's always someone who will put me in danger.

magicbastarder

queldy wrote: »

had a near miss in this roundabout here, and since it is the last of a (very) long series

it *is* the walkinstown roundabout. i don't enjoy it in a car, let alone on a bike.

robyntmorton

I have to agree with everyone else here. You have to be really f'in confident in everyone else's situational awareness and ability, or really f'in suicidal to go for it on a bike. I've only ever done it in a car, and I am not a fan of it.

Maybe this is one of those times where walking it really is the right option.

RayCun

Walkinstown roundabout... the only time I go on it on a bike is when I'm taking the first exit. Otherwise I go pedestrian.

buffalo

It's bigger than your average roundabout, but treat it like any other - plenty of shoulder checks, indicate and check before changing lane, and if someone in a bigger vehicle is acting dangerously, take whatever avoidance measures you can.

I think taking the outer lane the whole way around for a three o'clock is not the safest approach, as you have maximised opportunities for cars to cut across you at each and every exit.

CramCycle

If I am reading your post right you are approaching the roundabout and entering it in the left lane to take a right turn.

While you will see recommendations on a bicycle that you can do this in the ROTR, on a motorbike, it is inexcusably wrong. You are taking the 4th exit (or in this scenario, roughly equivalent to the 9o'clock exit). Even on a push bike though I wouldn't take the left lane for it as you are going to get hooked. If you are not confident enough to take the lane, it might be better to dismount and walk around.

You should be entering the roundabout in the right hand lane, not the left, as you are not taking the first or second exit. I would take the inner lane, merge over one on passing Walkinstown Ave, and over another one at Walkinstown Road. I come through here a bit (albeit from terenure going to Walkinstown Ave) and never have any major issue if taking the correct lane. I do always expect someone to mess up though so am super cautious on entering, leaving and changing lane.

Everyone else is right in that the majority of Irish cannot use a roundabout correctly.

You were probably getting honked as being in the left lane, you were expected to take the first or second exit. none of the exits are two lane, so you would be expected to only merge into the left lane immediately after the turn before your exit.

queldy

CramCycle wrote: »

If I am reading your post right you are approaching the roundabout and entering it in the left lane to take a right turn.

While you will see recommendations on a bicycle that you can do this in the ROTR, on a motorbike, it is inexcusably wrong. You are taking the 4th exit (or in this scenario, roughly equivalent to the 9o'clock exit). Even on a push bike though I wouldn't take the left lane for it as you are going to get hooked. If you are not confident enough to take the lane, it might be better to dismount and walk around.

You should be entering the roundabout in the right hand lane, not the left, as you are not taking the first or second exit. I would take the inner lane, merge over one on passing Walkinstown Ave, and over another one at Walkinstown Road. I come through here a bit (albeit from terenure going to Walkinstown Ave) and never have any major issue if taking the correct lane. I do always expect someone to mess up though so am super cautious on entering, leaving and changing lane.

Everyone else is right in that the majority of Irish cannot use a roundabout correctly.

You were probably getting honked as being in the left lane, you were expected to take the first or second exit. none of the exits are two lane, so you would be expected to only merge into the left lane immediately after the turn before your exit.

Yes, you do read it correctly.
So if I am entering the roundabout and wanting to take the 3rd or 4th, I should not be taking the external line?
I am wondering because in Italy you could take the external line and go in circle in the roundabout till you feel comfortable enough to take the exit - in that situation (going in circle on the external line) no one will (or should not!) cut your way.
I was more specifically asking about the regulations, not about what "I am expected" to do in a roundabout (that is unfortunately a matter of interpretation).

That said, I will avoid this roundabout 100% from now (if I think at how many times I used it...), but unfortunately this is not the only one in Ireland...

Thanks a lot guys

PS
I mean, if I am on the external line, no one should cut my way to take an exit, right?
I could be wrong being there, but either he/she is ahead of me or he/she is behind me.

Then of course, you expect people doing crazy things, but I do not see why I am mistaken.

cython

queldy wrote: »

Yes, you do read it correctly.
So if I am entering the roundabout and wanting to take the 3rd or 4th, I should not be taking the external line?
I am wondering because in Italy you could take the external line and go in circle in the roundabout till you feel comfortable enough to take the exit - in that situation (going in circle on the external line) no one will (or should not!) cut your way.
I was more specifically asking about the regulations, not about what "I am expected" to do in a roundabout (that is unfortunately a matter of interpretation).

That said, I will avoid this roundabout 100% from now (if I think at how many times I used it...), but unfortunately this is not the only one in Ireland...

Thanks a lot guys

PS
I mean, if I am on the external line, no one should cut my way to take an exit, right?
I could be wrong being there, but either he/she is ahead of me or he/she is behind me.

Then of course, you expect people doing crazy things, but I do not see why I am mistaken.

Unfortunately a lot of roundabouts in Ireland are incorrectly marked for their intended usage, with lanes delineated simply by concentric circles, rather than spiral shapes. Were the Walkinstown one to have its lanes properly marked per how it is supposed to be used, the "external" lane as you call it would always taper off into the exit, while a new lane would open opposite the next entrance. Instead these roundabouts follow a practice of changing lanes as you pass the exit to work your way outwards towards the exit you want to take. However it is essentially never on any roundabout correct to stay in the left hand lane while passing multiple exits only to take an exit past 12 o'clock from where you entered.

I do appreciate, however, that marking out this series of tapering/spiralling lanes is not necessarily feasible in the small area afforded to many roundabouts, but there is an inexcusable example of this near Kilcock on the M4 flyovers.

Chuchote

Where;s there a correct example, Cython?

5uspect

Chuchote wrote: »

Where;s there a correct example, Cython?

These new ones in Tyrrelstown I suppose.

TheChizler

5uspect wrote: »

These new ones in Tyrrelstown I suppose.

That is a thing of beauty. Why can't more things be done right?