Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Chiparus

I noticed this morning on my commute that international visitors are now coming prepared!

Noodles and all!

12 element

Chiparus wrote: »

I noticed this morning on my commute that international visitors are now coming prepared!

Noodles and all!

I saw those two in Mayo a few weeks ago!

VW 1

Saw a cyclist down in the middle of the road on Bride Road, about 5 foot away from his bike in the recovery position and ten foot in front of a jeep. There was 7/8 people attending to him so was no point in stopping but he was very much lying still. Hopefully nothing more than precaution.

AndrewJRenko

VW 1 wrote: »

Saw a cyclist down in the middle of the road on Bride Road, about 5 foot away from his bike in the recovery position and ten foot in front of a jeep. There was 7/8 people attending to him so was no point in stopping but he was very much lying still. Hopefully nothing more than precaution.

Where is Bride Road?

Breezer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Where is Bride Road?

I presume the one in Dublin 8 between Christchurch and St Patrick's Cathedrals? Google Maps doesn't seem to know of any other. If so it's a relatively short one way street. I wonder what happened? Hope the cyclist was ok.

https://goo.gl/maps/QosYHE6WByQSYBty5

VW 1

Yeah thats the one, I can't understand what might have happened or speculate, he and his bike were in the middle of the road with no obvious culprit for a collision other than the stopped jeep 10 or so feet behind. Unless they hit him directly from behind, but that didnt seem likely

mistermaster

Used to live around that area myself. Hope the cyclist is okay.

Can I go back to the videos from Wicklow? I think the first one shows how it would be good to have a provision in law to allow motorists to overtake cyclists on a continuous white line where it’s safe to do so, like they have in Australia.

The first driver was going too fast anyway but he/she only crossed over a little bit maybe because he/she was thinking “I’m not supposed to cross the white line at all, so I’ll only go over a little bit”. But the other two drivers then did the “right” thing by going all the way across, even though it’s actually illegal to do that.

Maybe the first driver here wouldn’t have done anything differently anyway, but I do think this is something that affects what other drivers do sometimes, and that they’d probably pull out further to overtake if they were legally allowed to.

magicbastarder

mistermaster wrote: »

like they have in Australia.

words to strike fear into a cyclist's heart.

mistermaster

magicbastarder wrote: »

words to strike fear into a cyclist's heart.

Lol. Maybe so. Seems cyclists there have to put up a with a lot of stuff that’s a lot worse than what we have here. But still, I do think that the rule that “it’s okay to cross a continuous white line to pass a cyclist, if it’s safe to do so” is a good one.

Pinch Flat

yeah wouldn't normally look at Australia as a bastion of common sense when it comes to cycling, but crossing on a continuous white line may be one solution. Most motorists do it any way - it's just that they sometimes chose the most dangerous part of the road to do it. We had a fool overtake our group into a completely blind corner on Sunday, the car coming the other way had to stop dead to allow him continue, and he almost side swiped our top 2 riders when trying to get back in.

magicbastarder

a continuous white line is usually painted specifically because leaving your lane is unsafe, though?

amcalester

Pinch Flat wrote: »

yeah wouldn't normally look at Australia as a bastion of common sense when it comes to cycling, but crossing on a continuous white line may be one solution. Most motorists do it any way - it's just that they sometimes chose the most dangerous part of the road to do it. We had a fool overtake our group into a completely blind corner on Sunday, the car coming the other way had to stop dead to allow him continue, and he almost side swiped our top 2 riders when trying to get back in.

Driving in the Monaghan countryside yesterday and saw a cyclist coming around a bend towards me and thought to myself, I hope nobody overtakes him now because then we could be in trouble, so I slowed down more than I would normally have when taking that corner and sure enough a car overtook him veering across a single white line onto my side of the road.

That driver probably blamed the cyclist too, forced to overtake him:rolleyes:

CramCycle

If there is a continuous white line, it is typically there for a reason, so crossing it or not is irrelevant, they simply should not be overtaking. If they don't have the patience to wait, then they really should not be driving. They are often there for hidden dips, bumps, blind corners or a variety of reasons, they are not always obvious, so no, it shouldn't be allowed although to my knowledge is provided for when there is an obstruction and can be done safely, ie there is no need to change the law but I certainly would not be encouraging it.

Rmulvany

sy_flembeck wrote: »

Again, approaching Glenealy, another spot I've never had issues with (but I've heard from those who have). The Vectra in question had the passenger window down. Perosnally, I felt it was to listen to my reaction as he immeidately looked over to the left after overtaking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNT4p0G27Eg

Dangerously close overtake on a solid white line.
I wonder would it be worth reporting to the Guards? Wouldn't be hard to make out their reg in the video

blackwhite

CramCycle wrote: »

If there is a continuous white line, it is typically there for a reason, so crossing it or not is irrelevant, they simply should not be overtaking. If they don't have the patience to wait, then they really should not be driving. They are often there for hidden dips, bumps, blind corners or a variety of reasons, they are not always obvious, so no, it shouldn't be allowed although to my knowledge is provided for when there is an obstruction and can be done safely, ie there is no need to change the law but I certainly would not be encouraging it.

It can depend.

We've often instances of road markings in this country where there's a single marking in the road covering traffic travelling in both directions.

If I've come around a bend and there's now a straight section ahead I don't see any real danger in a car crossing lanes to pass me - even if there's a single white line which was intended for traffic travelling the opposite direction

https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.2374052,-7.0824651,3a,75y,306.33h,92.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shcDdvbCdQXCzTJlATj1XMQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Using an example of a road I cycle quite a bit - heading towards the city is impacted by the solid white line which is intended for traffic headed out towards Ballygunner. Not a long section - but I'm happier to have any cars past and in front of me as quickly as it's safe instead of having them on my tail for longer than needed

mistermaster

CramCycle wrote: »

although to my knowledge is provided for when there is an obstruction and can be done safely, ie there is no need to change the law but I certainly would not be encouraging it.

I believe the law allows for crossing a continuous white line if there’s an obstruction or hazard, if there’s an emergency, or for access (e.g. to a property on the ‘wrong’ side of the line). I don’t think we cyclists want to be regarded as obstructions or hazards, we definitely don’t want to be involved in an emergency, and the access thing isn’t relevant.

I’m thinking of places like that video from Wicklow and that place in Waterford that blackandwhite has just put up. There’s countless places like this all over the country, where there’s a continuous white line because it would be unsafe to cross to the other side of the road for the length of time and distance it would take to pass another vehicle moving at 80 kph or 100kph or whatever the limit is there. But as the second two cars in the video from Wicklow shows, it would be safe to cross the line for the much shorter length of time it takes to overtake a cyclist moving at normal cycling speed.

That’s all I’m talking about. Am not talking about giving a open licence for motorists to cross white lines anywhere and everywhere they want for any reason at all.

magicbastarder

that link blackwhite has put up definitely looks like it was once a dashed line but turned into a solid white line. i'd be curious as to why.

mistermaster

So it does. Well spotted!

I'd say that could even strengthen what I'm suggesting. Looks like it was once officially considered safe to cross to the other side there to overtake vehicles at probably 60 to 80 kph. So should still be safe to be allowed cross to the other side for the much shorter distance to pass a bike that's going 20 to 30 kph (assuming of course that there's nothing coming the other way!)

blackwhite

magicbastarder wrote: »

that link blackwhite has put up definitely looks like it was once a dashed line but turned into a solid white line. i'd be curious as to why.

Swing the view 180 degrees. Coming out of the city you are heading uphill towards a blind corner and the crest of a hill.

Perfect visibility heading towards Waterford, but no more than 50m visibility when heading the opposite direction.

In the perfect world it'd be double lined, with broken line for inbound and solid for outbound - but we generally only do single lines on L and R roads in Ireland

Yakuza

Pinch Flat wrote: »

yeah wouldn't normally look at Australia as a bastion of common sense when it comes to cycling, but crossing on a continuous white line may be one solution. Most motorists do it any way - it's just that they sometimes chose the most dangerous part of the road to do it. We had a fool overtake our group into a completely blind corner on Sunday, the car coming the other way had to stop dead to allow him continue, and he almost side swiped our top 2 riders when trying to get back in.

You're allowed break a white line in Spain when overtaking a bike.
This is an animation from their traffic corps.

magicbastarder

Yakuza wrote: »

This is an animation from their traffic corps.

RULE #1 - DO NOT DRIVE INTO THE CYCLIST

that appears to show the cyclist in a marked cycle lane. not clear whether that law only applies to those circumstances.

RobertFoster

magicbastarder wrote: »

that appears to show the cyclist in a marked cycle lane.

It's a hard shoulder (arcén). It says the cyclist must cycle in the hard shoulder (if it's good enough). Common sense after that (slow down, keep back, pass when safe, you're allowed across the white line into the oncoming lane, minimum 1.5 m from the cyclist).

mistermaster

RobertFoster wrote: »

It's a hard shoulder (arcén). It says the cyclist must cycle in the hard shoulder (if it's good enough). Common sense after that (slow down, keep back, pass when safe, you're allowed across the white line into the oncoming lane, minimum 1.5 m from the cyclist).

Thanks for the explanation and translation.

Overall then, it seems to be exactly what I’m saying I’d like to see here. I think most cyclists here would use the hard shoulder anyway, if it’s good enough. And of course an advantage of that is that if it’s wide enough as well as good enough, you can give yourself a large part of the 1.5 metres that we want anyway. Then that Spanish ad tells motorists to pull out anyway even if the cyclist is on the hard shoulder, and that they can cross a continuous white line where it’s safe to do so. Seems to make perfect sense all round to me.

tuxy

Wouldn't that require regular maintenance of the hard should to remove all the debris that's deposited by cars?

smacl

blackwhite wrote: »

Swing the view 180 degrees. Coming out of the city you are heading uphill towards a blind corner and the crest of a hill.

Perfect visibility heading towards Waterford, but no more than 50m visibility when heading the opposite direction.

In the perfect world it'd be double lined, with broken line for inbound and solid for outbound - but we generally only do single lines on L and R roads in Ireland

It's a good point though the line only stays solid for about 20m and then reverts to dashes.

Had a truck pass me on the crest of a hill yesterday coming into Claremorris and nearly take me out of it as they met a car coming the other way. I'd imagine the serious accidents are where you have one person doing a blind overtake meeting another person doing a blind overtake in the opposite direction. I tend to keep about a meter from edge when I'm climbing and pull in as needs be when I've traffic behind me so as not to be a cnut / frustrate drivers. I take the lane descending or anywhere dodgy that I can maintain a reasonable speed. Having met a car head on at full tilt and finding myself in bits on the side of the road a couple of years back, the current strategy is all about self preservation first and other peoples rules and sensibilities a very distant second. Funny thing is, if you take the lane and then pull in to let drivers past they appreciate your generosity whereas if you hug the edge you're just an obstacle.

blackwhite

smacl wrote: »

It's a good point though the line only stays solid for about 20m and then reverts to dashes.

Had a truck pass me on the crest of a hill yesterday coming into Claremorris and nearly take me out of it as they met a car coming the other way. I'd imagine the serious accidents are where you have one person doing a blind overtake meeting another person doing a blind overtake in the opposite direction. I tend to keep about a meter from edge when I'm climbing and pull in as needs be when I've traffic behind me so as not to be a cnut / frustrate drivers. I take the lane descending or anywhere dodgy that I can maintain a reasonable speed. Having met a car head on at full tilt and finding myself in bits on the side of the road a couple of years back, the current strategy is all about self preservation first and other peoples rules and sensibilities a very distant second. Funny thing is, if you take the lane and then pull in to let drivers past they appreciate your generosity whereas if you hug the edge you're just an obstacle.

Just using there as an example because it’s one I’m quite familiar with. It lasts approx 80-100m after cresting the hill

There’s a few examples on Strand Rd at sandymount also (passed on cycle to Dun Laoghaire this eve)

magicbastarder

I just had a guy in a Jeep overtake another cyclist, with me oncoming. He left it late and close. And I think the other cyclist was Weepsie?

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

I just had a guy in a Jeep overtake another cyclist, with me oncoming. He left it late and close. And I think the other cyclist was Weepsie?

I had the same this morning, it was weird, they gave so much room to the cyclist on a slight curve that I thought they were going to hit me head on, missed my by about 50cm in the end as I dived into the side. I doubt they even noticed.

Another car pulled in across me in Bray, I let a roar, they didn't hear but I stupidly kept going rather than braking. I got through but I should have stopped, it was one of those adrenaline moments where my head couldn't figure if stopping was going to keep safe so I ploughed on to clear the space. They copped me last second but still can't tell if I was right or wrong. They looked very sheepish for the rest of the trip. I let them know there rear view mirror was broken as I passed by for the last time with as sarcastic thumbs sign as I could manage.

magicbastarder

it was a day for it today, i had three motorists crossing the line with me obviously close.

De Bhál

Weepsie wrote: »

https://streamable.com/n9xz8

The near miss with magicbastarder

and another last night near the airport which was even closer for me.Truck had passed the otehr side 10 seconds earlier so the road was well clear. They didn't care.

https://streamable.com/8agip

a hard shoulder by the back of the airport would be nice, I've had way too many close passes on the road.