€300M Investment into Waterford City

Dexpat

invara wrote: »

What Hardy Buck outlines is how it should be done... but a Minister can move money in a budget, there is year end money etc....

So for example last December, Education had money left over at year end. The Dept of Education confirms the number of primary and secondary students in in October, which fixes the number of teachers needed (all that is set out in ratios), the Government always has to provide for more than it will need. Convey took great pleasure in bringing home that bacon to Cork.

Covney tweeted: 12:45 PM · Dec 17, 2019

"Delighted Govt announced today €18.75m for capital investment in @CIT_ie
Bishopstown campus, built in 1974, this money is a huge investment to upgrade facilities to help the continued growth in STEM provision #MTU @THEA_irl #Cork "

Yeah. It can happen like that if it's for Cork. For Waterford it's a bit less likely. Listening to Rob Cass on the WLR link posted on the developments thread he seemed certain that the funding is ready to be signed off. It's just waiting for a final decision. IF FF and FG form the next government, hopefully it will happen fairly quickly. Worrying what Michael Walsh says though. The election really seems to have come at the worst possible time for the project.

Bards

I personally think that FG had no intention of ever giving the money... Their hope is to forever promise and eventually the Saudis will get fed up and leave... Then FG can blame it on the developers as the money was almost there.

Dexpat

Bards wrote: »

I personally think that FG had no intention of ever giving the money... Their hope is to forever promise and eventually the Saudis will get fed up and leave... Then FG can blame it on the developers as the money was almost there.

Who knows, maybe that's the case, but on balance based on what the developers have said I'd believe that it was almost over the line.

Regardless of that, by the time of the election it hadn't been delivered and FG had failed Waterford on this and many other things. It's probably a good thing that a message was sent to them in the election and they got no seats.

I don't see things happening by the end of March even if a government is formed soon, so maybe the developers won't wait. Interesting that Rob Cass said last week on WLR that the North Quays will happen eventually even if funding doesn't arrive. That would probably be at least 5 years away if Falcon sell it on after planning and we'd be back nearly to square one. It could have big implications for the council as well given what they have spent on it already.

curmudgeonly

Can I make a simple point. the money being sought is not for the developers,it is for the necessary ground works and bridge roads etc to make the site shovel ready.
An obvious point but I think being missed by some,and if it happened the Saudis did a runner there would be a queue of developers to take on the project.

Dexpat

curmudgeonly wrote: »

Can I make a simple point. the money being sought is not for the developers,it is for the necessary ground works and bridge roads etc to make the site shovel ready.
An obvious point but I think being missed by some,and if it happened the Saudis did a runner there would be a queue of developers to take on the project.

The problem is if the current developers pull out it would probably be because they believe that the infrastructure money wasn't going to be delivered. If that's the case it makes major development unviable if the preparatory works have to be funded by new developers.

I've no doubt development would eventually happen as it's a great site, however it could be very slow and piecemeal. I doubt new developers like Falcon could be found to invest €400m is a small regional city. I think it's no concidence that someone originally from Waterford is leading the project. We probably wouldn't have been on the radar of the Saudis otherwise.

It looks like FF/FG and Greens will be forming the new government. This is probably positive for the project in reducing the potential for even more delays.
No guarantee that it will be granted but FG will be made to put up or shut up once and for all.

hardybuck

Dexpat wrote: »

The problem is if the current developers pull out it would probably be because they believe that the infrastructure money wasn't going to be delivered. If that's the case it makes major development unviable if the preparatory works have to be funded by new developers.

I've no doubt development would eventually happen as it's a great site, however it could be very slow and piecemeal. I doubt new developers like Falcon could be found to invest €400m is a small regional city. I think it's no concidence that someone originally from Waterford is leading the project. We probably wouldn't have been on the radar of the Saudis otherwise.

It looks like FF/FG and Greens will be forming the new government. This is probably positive for the project in reducing the potential for even more delays.
No guarantee that it will be granted but FG will be made to put up or shut up once and for all.

Don't forget that the guy heading up the Department of Transport is also from Waterford.

Bards

Planning decision is due tomorrow.

Will it be passed or will they look for more information

http://www.eplanning.ie/WaterfordCCC/AppFileRefDetails/19928/0

vriesmays

It's 95% complete.

fricatus

Bards wrote: »

Planning decision is due tomorrow.

That's quite early. I seem to recall that if they took the full eight weeks or whatever it was, that it was due around the middle of March. Hopefully all good, fingers crossed!

Aquos76

Planning application was submitted on the 16th Dec as far as I can remember so this week would seem right ok

JohnC.

fricatus wrote: »

That's quite early. I seem to recall that if they took the full eight weeks or whatever it was, that it was due around the middle of March. Hopefully all good, fingers crossed!

It was received on 17/12/2019. So it's about 9 weeks.

Max Powers

fricatus wrote: »

That's quite early. I seem to recall that if they took the full eight weeks or whatever it was, that it was due around the middle of March. Hopefully all good, fingers crossed!

Was thinking similar, I thought general rule of 3 months wait for decisions.

Bards

Max Powers wrote: »

Was thinking similar, I thought general rule of 3 months wait for decisions.

Planning was lodged 17th December... 9 weeks later was actually yesterday... So it has been 9 weeks and 1 day...

The planning file which i provided a link to also corroborates today as the date

Max Powers

Bards wrote: »

Planning was lodged 17th December... 9 weeks later was actually yesterday... So it has been 9 weeks and 1 day...

The planning file which i provided a link to also corroborates today as the date

Saw that yeah, still, think 3 months is the normal time for decision if you or I looking for planning. Hopefully sooner approval but im pretty sure I have seen those dates changed before on different applications, I know very little about planning to be fair.

Aquos76

Decisions normally made within 8 weeks and then a further 4 weeks before any works can commence is the norm for planning applications

Max Powers

Aquos76 wrote: »

Decisions normally made within 8 weeks and then a further 4 weeks before any works can commence is the norm for planning applications

Right, that might be where I get my 3 months from, fair play. Its not a load of time considering the size of it, other applications and submissions going in probably only weeks before due date.

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

Saw that yeah, still, think 3 months is the normal time for decision if you or I looking for planning. Hopefully sooner approval but im pretty sure I have seen those dates changed before on different applications, I know very little about planning to be fair.

One thing you can never be sure about is planning deadlines at ABP.

I had approval once about 5 weeks before I was expecting it. Someone else I knew who had a more complex application around the same time got their decision two months later than they were expecting.

When dealing with the Councils they might also, just as you were expecting a decision, ask for further information which will put you back a couple of months minimum.

Dexpat

I don't think a delay in the planning approval is going to be anything to worry about. It's virtually certain to be approved maybe with some small changes, as the developers have been working closely with the council in the context of the SDZ.

This big issue will be the funding committments from the goverment when/if we eventually get one.

curmudgeonly

Tomorrow 19th is the date it is due, but the smart money is on an FI request from the planners (fúrher (sic) Information)

Bards

curmudgeonly wrote: »

Tomorrow 19th is the date it is due, but the smart money is on an FI request from the planners (fúrher (sic) Information)

Erm, today is the 19th

curmudgeonly

Bards wrote: »

Erm, today is the 19th

OOPs €15,175000 just announced for the NQs anyway

skodacb

https://waterfordcouncilnews.com/2020/02/19/waterford-welcomes-funding-of-e15175000-under-ntas-project-ireland-2040/


Finally

bluess99

curmudgeonly wrote: »

OOPs €15,175000 just announced for the NQs anyway

The €15,175,000 is under the National Transport Authority (NTA)'s for the development of roads, which includes the link from the greenway in passed Bilberry, and towards city centre sustainable transport initiatives.

Harry Palmr

They wouldn't be spending a penny on Dock Road if it wasn't part of the NQD.

curmudgeonly

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They wouldn't be spending a penny on Dock Road if it wasn't part of the NQD.

Your point is ?

Harry Palmr

Read the post above mine.

Dexpat

Funding announcement on first glance looks great. I wasn't expecting anything until a government was formed.
Maybe I'm being cynical but how much of this is new and how much was announced previously?

It says €12.6m to Dock Rd and Abbey Rd access works and sustainable transport bridge. Wasn't €6m already committed to the bridge if so that means it's just an extra €6.6m for the access roads in Ferrybank.

Also wasn't the €1.55m bilberry to clock tower money announced previously?
Maybe this is all extra I'm sure someone will correct me if so. Either way the additional funding is moving the project forward and making it more likely that it will happen.

Harry Palmr

Depends how you look at it - an announcement is a commitment in theory only. Now the money exists so that's a good thing right?

Dexpat

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Depends how you look at it - an announcement is a commitment in theory only. Now the money exists so that's a good thing right?

Yeah generally good alright and it looks like with confirmation of funding the bridge is planned to be under construction by the end of the year. The new money for access from Ferrybank is particularly important.

curmudgeonly

Further Information sought.

Go figure.