€300M Investment into Waterford City

imacman

Stopitwillya wrote: »

The bridge connecting the city centre and the north Quays just gone to the tender stage according to Eddie Mulligan's Facebook page.

Plenty of stuff has gone to the tender stage and not been competed . An example was the Engineering building in WIT in 2011 which had processed the tenders and was weeks away from signing the final agreement and the government pulled the funding because of the financial crisis. The are only getting back to building it now nearly 10 years later. Tenders mean nothing till they are completed and signed

SOPHIE THE DOG

Stopitwillya wrote: »

The bridge connecting the city centre and the north Quays just gone to the tender stage according to Eddie Mulligan's Facebook page.

Has gone to tender for Category 3 independent design check.‬

‪This check is to ensure that the design is safe to implement, economic to build & maintain, complies with the objectives of sustainability, and has due regard for the environment.

The Bridge has not gone to tender.

decies

Right time to get realistic with the North Quays development , looking like the best thing we can hope for is a nice park , green area . Anything else with this global recession imminent is just a pipe dream now . It was always a risk with developments take too long to come to fruition in this country albeit from an unexpected source to sink it .

Bards

decies wrote: »

Right time to get realistic with the North Quays development , looking like the best thing we can hope for is a nice park , green area . Anything else with this global recession imminent is just a pipe dream now . It was always a risk with developments take too long to come to fruition in this country albeit from an unexpected source to sink it .

Yep, Michael Street development got squashed in the last recession after being delayed by planning... Seems like just when things might be looking up for us they get knocked back by global events.... That always seem to be the Govt mantra with anything to do with Waterford... Delay, Delay, Delay there is always a recession around the corner to stop development of the City so we won't have to

Gardner

decies wrote: »

Right time to get realistic with the North Quays development , looking like the best thing we can hope for is a nice park , green area . Anything else with this global recession imminent is just a pipe dream now . It was always a risk with developments take too long to come to fruition in this country albeit from an unexpected source to sink it .

realistic? it was never going ahead in the first place. the alarm bells were ringing when they were waiting on a tranche of money from the government for infrastructure contained within the project.
why didn't they stump up the money themselves and get a legal guarantee in place that when the money comes available they would simply take back the tranche in the initial outlay.

imacman

Gardner wrote: »

realistic? it was never going ahead in the first place. the alarm bells were ringing when they were waiting on a tranche of money from the government for infrastructure contained within the project.
why didn't they stump up the money themselves and get a legal guarantee in place that when the money comes available they would simply take back the tranche in the initial outlay.

I have to agree , it never got the enough scrutiny from day one as Waterford is so desperate for any kind of investment the local politicans jumped at it It always looked like a celtic tiger vanity build to me and its location never made sense.

hardybuck

While I wouldn't write this off completely just yet, a cleared site is the best outcome for the moment. Better than looking at the old eyesores, and far better than looking at an empty, half finished, lump of concrete for a couple of years.

alta stare

Gardner wrote: »

realistic? it was never going ahead in the first place. the alarm bells were ringing when they were waiting on a tranche of money from the government for infrastructure contained within the project.
why didn't they stump up the money themselves and get a legal guarantee in place that when the money comes available they would simply take back the tranche in the initial outlay.

I got attacked on here by the usual posters when i was calling out Rob Cass about his conduct on social media. Where are these people now? They have gone pretty much silent as has he. I gave up posting on this thread, the ignorance here sometimes is something to behold. Nothing but blinkers regarding Waterford and contempt for those who voice different opinions to theirs.

After all this time I would be amazed if this project goes ahead especially now given the arse is about to fall out of the economy but sssh you cant say any of that here.

Wanderer78

alta stare wrote: »

I got attacked on here by the usual posters when i was calling out Rob Cass about his conduct on social media. Where are these people now? They have gone pretty much silent as has he. I gave up posting on this thread, the ignorance here sometimes is something to behold. Nothing but blinkers regarding Waterford and contempt for those who voice different opinions to theirs.

After all this time I would be amazed if this project goes ahead especially now given the arse is about to fall out of the economy but sssh you cant say any of that here.

id still have no problem voicing my negative opinions on this project, but i do see the positives also, id also still criticise rob cass's conduct on social media, he comes across as being rather arrogant, almost narcissistic, i have spoken to others about this, including local business owners that also agree, but i will hand it to him if he manages to get this over the line, it truly could transfer the city

Harry Palmr

Given it would take 4-5 years now would be the prefect time to build if they have the wherewithal, the price of energy heavy concrete products combined with the wider downturn means construction pricing will be competitive.

Wanderer78

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Given it would take 4-5 years now would be the prefect time to build if they have the wherewithal, the price of energy heavy concrete products combined with the wider downturn means construction pricing will be competitive.

its a gigantic risk now though, this is early days in this downturn, we ve no clue how bad its gonna be, or how long it may be, it will be very unfortunate if he doesnt happen

BBM77

Clearly the virus of negativity is a lot harder to kill than COVID-19. Lots of big projects started during a recession, it happens all the time. City Square whereas a smaller project still happened during much harder economic times than we will face today. Recessions are temporary, specially this one as it is caused by a lockdown that will be lifted.

By the way the nay-sayers here have no validity. Most of them have been preaching the projects doom since they heard about it. Each step in the process that was passed they brushed over it. No matter what happens they say it won’t happen so they have no creditability in my book.

Wanderer78

BBM77 wrote: »

Clearly the virus of negativity is a lot harder to kill than COVID-19. Lots of big projects started during a recession, it happens all the time. City Square whereas a smaller project still happened during much harder economic times than we will face today. Recessions are temporary, specially this one as it is caused by a lockdown that will be lifted.

By the way the nay-sayers here have no validity. Most of them have been preaching the projects doom since they heard about it. Each step in the process that was passed they brushed over it. No matter what happens they say it won’t happen so they have no creditability in my book.

these statements are all subjective, if you lose your job or home, thats not exactly easy or temporary! current economic indicators are looking damn scary for many

BBM77

Wanderer78 wrote: »

these statements are all subjective, if you lose your job or home, thats not exactly easy or temporary! current economic indicators are looking damn scary for many

Current economic indicators during a temporary lockdown. My point exactly.

Wanderer78

BBM77 wrote: »

Current economic indicators during a temporary lockdown. My point exactly.

economies dont all of a sudden switch back on, we ve plenty of evidence to support this from previous downturns, we re all aware of the rapid job losses that are currently occuring, demand simply does not all of a sudden switch back on from such events. again, humans have a tendency to become fearful in such events, hoarding money and saving where possible, expect a slow down

hardybuck

BBM77 wrote: »

Clearly the virus of negativity is a lot harder to kill than COVID-19. Lots of big projects started during a recession, it happens all the time. City Square whereas a smaller project still happened during much harder economic times than we will face today. Recessions are temporary, specially this one as it is caused by a lockdown that will be lifted.

By the way the nay-sayers here have no validity. Most of them have been preaching the projects doom since they heard about it. Each step in the process that was passed they brushed over it. No matter what happens they say it won’t happen so they have no creditability in my book.

I most certainly challenged the attitude of the 'build it at all cost, whatever the cost' brigade here. That doesn't mean I'm against the project.

I was also quite critical of Cass' unprofessional communication style. That doesn't mean I don't think the guy has good intentions and is the right person to get the job done.

I think this project will still proceed through some technical phases, albeit at a slower pace.

After that, the honest answer is that nobody knows how the global economy will be impacted. Will it be an 8% contraction in Ireland for a year and then we get back within a year or two? Will it be a deeper contraction and a longer prolonged period of recession - nobody has a clue.

We're all just going to have to sit tight and see how it goes from here on in.

decies

From FINANCIAL TIMES LIVE


11:13 AM Charlotte Middlehurst
Ireland heading for recession, says think-tank

Arthur Beesley in Dublin

Ireland will fall into recession this year because of coronavirus and the economy is on course to shrink by more than 7 per cent even if restrictive measures are lifted after three months, a leading Dublin think-tank has warned.

In a report on Thursday, the Economic & Social Research Institute said the Covid-19 pandemic was the “greatest threat” to the Irish economy since the 2008 financial crisis. Dublin tightened restrictions this week, closing “non-essential” retail outlets after shutting bars and schools in moves that have threatened more than 350,000 jobs.

The ESRI said the shock could lead to 18 per cent unemployment by June, up from 4.8 per cent last month and higher than the 16 per cent peak after the last crash. “At this juncture, we assume that these measures stay in place for a 12-week period and the economy recovers afterwards. Under this scenario, the Irish economy would shrink by 7.1 per cent in 2020,” the report said, adding that the assessment may yet prove to be “too benign”. The likelihood of a sharp contraction follows 5.5 per cent gross domestic product growth in 2019.

Consumption, investment and net trade would all fall sharply; households would cut spending, firms would cancel or postpone investment and external demand for Irish goods and services will fall.
Ireland’s public finances were in surplus before the coronavirus outbreak but the ESRI said a 4.3 per cent defecit in the general government balance was now in prospect for 2020.

“This is as a result of the significant fall in revenues the exchequer will face due to the contraction in the economy. It also reflects the significant increase in spending the government will implement in order to support workers who have lost their jobs, assist businesses facing declines in revenue and provide additional health expenditure needed to combat the virus,” said the report.

10:52 AM Sarah Provan

imacman

I saw this online recently
https://kilkennynow.ie/ferrybanks-north-quays-developer-claims-hotel-is-sold-half-of-the-apartments-taken-and-a-tech-company-is-moving-into-the-offices/
Sounds like more BS to me ,everything is "a source claimed " with no details . How can 50% of apartments and offices are accounted for when there is no start date for even commencement of construction and even if it does go ahead it 3 or 4 years from completion.I cant find anywhere online where the specs or designs of these apartments or offices , there isnt even a mention of them on the northquays own website . So they are telling us people are reserving apartments and offices with no idea what they will look like or how there will be kitted out years before they can move in , gimme a break . That whole article stinks of wishful thinking at best and a big ugly lie at worst and doesn't give me any more confidence in the developers

BBM77

Wanderer78 wrote: »

economies dont all of a sudden switch back on, we ve plenty of evidence to support this from previous downturns, we re all aware of the rapid job losses that are currently occuring, demand simply does not all of a sudden switch back on from such events. again, humans have a tendency to become fearful in such events, hoarding money and saving where possible, expect a slow down

This is just negative speculation. The ERSI said it is not possible to undertake traditional economic forecasts. COVID-19 is not the end of days even with a recession. It reminds me of 911 when we had people with this outlook saying people will not fly again that mass air travel is dead. The likes of Ryanair did the opposite and bought more planes and mass air travel got even more massive.

As you are clearly so into economic history. Remember the famous quote from the great depression, we have nothing to fear but fear itself. Think it is as apt today as it was then.

Wanderer78

BBM77 wrote: »

This is just negative speculation. The ERSI said it is not possible to undertake traditional economic forecasts. COVID-19 is not the end of days even with a recession. It reminds me of 911 when we had people with this outlook saying people will not fly again that mass air travel is dead. The likes of Ryanair did the opposite and bought more planes and mass air travel got even more massive.

As you are clearly so into economic history. Remember the famous quote from the great depression, we have nothing to fear but fear itself. Think it is as apt today as it was then.

the great depression passed relatively easily? this really isnt looking too good, again, expect a downturn, most if not all forecasts are moving towards this, yes economic forecasts are ****e at the best of times, but....

alta stare

BBM77 wrote: »

Clearly the virus of negativity is a lot harder to kill than COVID-19. Lots of big projects started during a recession, it happens all the time. City Square whereas a smaller project still happened during much harder economic times than we will face today. Recessions are temporary, specially this one as it is caused by a lockdown that will be lifted.

By the way the nay-sayers here have no validity. Most of them have been preaching the projects doom since they heard about it. Each step in the process that was passed they brushed over it. No matter what happens they say it won’t happen so they have no creditability in my book.

So in your mind anyone that has a critical or skeptical voice has no validity? That is absolute nonsense. Not everyone believes everything they hear and they are just as entitled as anyone else to voice those opinions aswell.

BBM77

Wanderer78 wrote: »

the great depression passed relatively easily? this really isnt looking too good, again, expect a downturn, most if not all forecasts are moving towards this, yes economic forecasts are ****e at the best of times, but....

Christ you are a miserable sod. Seriously, how do you even get out of bed in the morning.

BBM77

alta stare wrote: »

So in your mind anyone that has a critical or skeptical voice has no validity? That is absolute nonsense. Not everyone believes everything they hear and they are just as entitled as anyone else to voice those opinions aswell.

Don’t twist what I am saying. You know what I mean. If people have been coming on this thread saying from the get-go the north quays project will not happen they cannot expect to be read now with much credibility. Saying now the north quays project will not happen because of a pandemic recession means nothing when the same people were saying the whole time it won’t happen because of whatever reason they came up with at the time.

Wanderer78

BBM77 wrote: »

Christ you are a miserable sod. Seriously, how do you even get out of bed in the morning.

i put both my feet on the ground, how do you?

Motivator

BBM77 wrote: »

Christ you are a miserable sod. Seriously, how do you even get out of bed in the morning.

How is he miserable? The country is heading one way and one way only. He’s being realistic. Economic growth will drop by about 10%, conservative estimates of between 7.1 and 7.3% were announced today but that’s if the virus left the country by COB today. It’ll end up about 10% I would think.

You can’t put your head in the sand about this, expecting a downturn isn’t being miserable it’s being realistic. This attitude of “it’ll be grand” isn’t going to make this go away you know.

imacman

Motivator wrote: »

How is he miserable? The country is heading one way and one way only. He’s being realistic. Economic growth will drop by about 10%, conservative estimates of between 7.1 and 7.3% were announced today but that’s if the virus left the country by COB today. It’ll end up about 10% I would think.

You can’t put your head in the sand about this, expecting a downturn isn’t being miserable it’s being realistic. This attitude of “it’ll be grand” isn’t going to make this go away you know.

Fair commentary I think,and projects like the north Quays will be top of the list to be shelved.

jelutong

With oil at $30 a barrel the Saudis are surely circling the wagons. It could even drop to $10 in the near future.

Wanderer78

jelutong wrote: »

With oil at $30 a barrel the Saudis are surely circling the wagons. It could even drop to $10 in the near future.

thats another bloody train wreck

azimuth17

Does anyone on here think that there will have to be an enormous cash splurge to try get the economy back up and running after the epidemic? If that happens then surely some money will find its way here and some section of the NQ may happen, even if its only the bridge and moving the train station?

Wanderer78

azimuth17 wrote: »

Does anyone on here think that there will have to be an enormous cash splurge to try get the economy back up and running after the epidemic? If that happens then surely some money will find its way here and some section of the NQ may happen, even if its only the bridge and moving the train station?

there should be, but will there be, with ffg in power, will they step away from prudency or......

helicopter money would be great, but will probably never happen