BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

XPS_Zero

devnull wrote: »

Certainly I wouldn't like to see Bus Eireann go to the wall but carrying on as is, is not sustainable either and something has to change and the company has to give better value for money to the taxpayers and make better user of taxpayers money than they are at the moment since a lot is being wasted because of their working practices. and rotas which have to change as a matter of urgency.

The trouble is on one hand the Bus Eireann PSO side is supposed to be set up as a public service where the public come first but in reality it doesn't work out like that, the state transport companies are happy to do anything that suits the public if it suits them, but if it doesn't suit them and is for the greater good they are not interested, and then the unions turn around and accuse the privates of putting their own interests before that of the public.

This is where the public service element of BE is not working correctly, The whole idea of setting up a publicly owned company is that the interests of the public and the service to the public comes first, the problem in Ireland is normally this doesn't happen to the same degree it does in other countries, since if something improves the system as a whole disadvantages a state company, they are not keen on it being implemented.

For example using an overall map or journey planner with all operators on would be very beneficial for the customers and passengers and users of public transport. There is no reason for a public company to not do this, because a public company is set up to serve the public and this is in the interests of the public so they should do it.

All valid points but companies like StatOil, TeleNor, ESB and agencies like revenue prove state owned doesn't HAVE to mean inefficient and low quality it's not inevitable

I know you're talking about competition within NTA TFL style, not free for all , a distinction SIPTU can't or won't grasp, but even in bundles I don't know if a private company could do say the 46a route bundled with 7b, 7D and 45a any better than DB does it.

end of the road wrote: »

wanting people to lose their job in the only world that is, because they are doing better then the person making the wish, says mor about the person making the wish, then it does about the people the person makes the wish against.

It's not wanting a random person to loose their job it's wanting grossly underperforming and overpaid employees of ours to loose them. But don't worry, since they're refusing reforms and have no suggestions of their own, they'll be tanking the company and loosing their own jobs.
It's also not easy to feel sympathy for a group when many members of them and their union reps are attacking a dirt cheap welfare program targeting seniors and people disabled a year or longer.
It's also hard to feel sympathy when someone's so intrasagent they refuse to offer any alternative proposal, ignoring the basic math that shows the company will go broke, implying, but not saying, that the general budget should just bail the company out (have we not had enough 'too big to fail' ) companies holding us ransom?), taking money from health education or welfare to cross subsidise BE



Where did the idea of two licences come from?
Why first come first serve? Shouldn't it be the best proposal? Not who's staff races to the NTA offices first?

devnull

horseburger wrote: »

I have a concern, about the introduction of services like this new Dublin Coach service, regarding whether or not other companies would serve intermediate towns, if they are to take over routes, that are currently operated by Bus Éireann, as advocated by people in this discussion.

If the Dublin Coach route was within Ireland I would agree it was a valid example, but it isn't, so I don't think it is a valid examples in this case because it's not comparing like with like and a fair comparison involves comparing like for like.

If Bus Éireann does collapse, in the way some people in this discussion would like to see happen, one result will be that the passengers who get the Bus Éireann / Translink Ulster Bus services at Sprucefield, Newry and Banbridge, would have one less service to use, especially at night, where passengers from those locations take the services to Dublin Airport.

Do you really think that they are just going to have massive gaps in the schedule and Translink will not recast their timetable in order to ensure that the frequency, timetable and schedule and gaps are not filled in. Bear in mind that Newry, Sprucefield and Banbridge are in Northern Ireland and Translink are very likely to pick people up as this would be their key market since they are in Northern Ireland.

It's great that you care about people in another country, but it's not particularly relevant to a discussion about our own because at the end of the day, as far as I'm aware we are discussing the effects that it will have on the Republic of Ireland, but if you want to discuss the transport system and how Town's in a different country are served, by all means do so, but I'm just focused on the country I live in.

Another example, is the various towns served on the Dublin Derry number 33 bus, for example Monaghan, with regard to the proposed ending of the Derry Dublin service.

Actually there has been rumours for years about operators starting on that route however they have been loathe to start because they have been worried about the possible reaction by a strong incumbent and the investment in the service which could be a waste of money because the following day a competitor could match their services and run just ahead of them which makes it a very unattractive investment.

Starting an international route is a far more risky business than a national route, because you have no protection at all from actions by other operators since there is an unlimited number of operators that can operate on an intra-EU route pretty much and there is no requirement for the services to be separated by time so there could be head to head running.

So again my suggestion is to lobby the EU, if the EU did not allow unrestricted, virtually unregulated competition on cross border routes it would make such routes a more attractive investment

This new Dublin Coach service is another example of a service between cities, but not serving intermediate towns.

But my point is this - you cannot stop these services on IntraEU routes, there can be an unlimited number of international routes in Europe and not a single person outside those in Brussels can do anything about it. Like it or not, it's just the way rules are.

Incidentally Dublin Coach could not call at Newry, Banbridge or Sprucefield on their service if they wanted to, because EU rules only apply when carrying passengers across borders, if you are carrying passengers within a country such passengers need to be carried in accordance with the rules of that country.

I have already stated, that the new service between Dublin and Belfast, is an example of what the poster, IE 22, was saying, about individual companies operating separate services. It is also another example of a service, between cities, avoiding intermediate towns.

It's an example of such a service, but it's not an example of what happens in this state since the route is not one which operates in this state, it is a service that operates cross-state and does not carry any passengers within the state whatsoever.

end of the road

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I clearly remember I think it was a guy called Kenny, IE sopokesman, pre NTA being asked why there was no wifi and he said technology changes so fast "we'd end up updating routers etc every few years"
This is the kind of answer they used to give

the lad your thinking of is probably barry Kenny from IE. i doubt he even believes what he says when it comes to doing pr for IE to be fair.

XPS_Zero wrote: »

It's not wanting a random person to loose their job it's wanting grossly underperforming and overpaid employees of ours to loose them. But don't worry, since they're refusing reforms and have no suggestions of their own, they'll be tanking the company and loosing their own jobs.

it's wanting people to lose their jobs because they are doing better then the person wanting them to lose their jobs. it's wrong and begrudgery.

BuilderPlumber

This strike is absolutely atrocious and should NOT be allowed. It is WRONG in every conceivable way and it speaks a LOT about what is wrong in Ireland. Who is wrong here? ALL SIDES:

1. Bus Eireann are run in a traditional Irish too many chiefs getting all the spoils type way and cutbacks get introduced to punish the ordinary workers. Same thing with RTE and An Post.

2. The Unions are just unreasonable cretins of the worst kind who don't care about the PUBLIC. Yes, the ordinary workers deserve their rights but by insisting on this disruption that is designed to work in much the same manner as terrorism does is wrong and selfish. The unions will not get the respect of the broader public and who will suffer again: consumers of bus travel and yes the ordinary workers in BE. The union heads are doing this for THEMSELVES and are the worst kind of capitalists pretending to be communists. The unions do not care or do not represent the workers.

3. The government/Shane Ross are spineless, useless idiots. They should declare the strike illegal and something so disruptive of the public should NEVER be allowed simple as. Yes, workers have a right to protest and yes unions have a purpose but not this type of thing that is only a few notches removed from violence. It is the worst extreme of the non-violent way and the situation does not merit such a widescale disruption of the public. The government should also have tax funds allocated to provide a proper public transport service and top executives and consultants should not be allowed drain all the money from these. Same again with RTE and of course An Post.

All parties involved here (meaning the company heads, unions and the government) should be utterly ashamed of themselves for allowing this monstrosity to happen. The Irish people should uprise and insist on change and not to allow dictators in companies and unions disrupt the public while a spineless government acts like Pontius Pilate. A very sad day for Ireland and Irish democracy.

oppenheimer1

end of the road wrote: »

the lad your thinking of is probably barry Kenny from IE. i doubt he even believes what he says when it comes to doing pr for IE to be fair.



it's wanting people to lose their jobs because they are doing better then the person wanting them to lose their jobs. it's wrong and begrudgery.

It's not about wanting people to lose their jobs, it's about people wanting a union to finally accept reality - there is no money, cuts need to be made and things have to change.

Going on strike doesn't solve issues, it only brings forward the day where BE has to decide there will be no more expressway and the the majority of staff are let go.

XPS_Zero

So the drivers haven't made any actual suggestions just insinuated two things:

1. Charge on FT
FT saves almost as much as it brings in from the health budget, €50 charge per card per year (which would never pass the house anyway it would be voted down) would get €30m split three ways is €10m so that plugs the gap
So then what?

What do we do when the company, which remember has made no structural reforms, who's OT is now paid for by the disabled, seriously ill and seniors, has an even bigger deficit next year?
Increase it? Increase fares? No you can't do those so we'll be back to square one

2. Cross subsidy.

Hike the subsidy for the PSO routes to keep BE overall alive as Expressway used to do for the PSO arm

Despite all talk of recovery in the election we're still waiting on it,( like those Lisbon treaty jobs ha all got suckered there didn't we!) despite all the talk we have a deficit around 6b, now a reasonable deficits ok, even good in a recession. But it means we gotta get this subsidy money one of following ways:

A. Borrow it, at interest. Borrowing to fund current spending

B. Take it from the 'big 3' in the budget, health education welfare. Shall we stop the next rollout of medical cards to fund bus drivers overtime? Harris already said the rollout of universal healthcare starting with free GP care was going to be slowed down. Do we slow it more?
Take the extra 5er off we gave to welfare? Take it out of the capital budget to repair schools or universities?

C. Given the dire warning from the defence forces head that while we have the people with training but not enough helicopters to get them around in time in the event of an ISIS attack, they haven't bought the.new west coast radars or interceptors they said they'd get, so is BE overtime more important than state security? Can we take it from there?

No, its no concrete ideas just "pay me , I don't care how" so you'll forgive me if I've s low view of them it didn't come from a vacum

horseburger

devnull wrote: »

If the Dublin Coach route was within Ireland I would agree it was a valid example, but it isn't, so I don't think it is a valid examples in this case because it's not comparing like with like and a fair comparison involves comparing like for like.



Do you really think that they are just going to have massive gaps in the schedule and Translink will not recast their timetable in order to ensure that the frequency, timetable and schedule and gaps are not filled in. Bear in mind that Newry, Sprucefield and Banbridge are in Northern Ireland and Translink are very likely to pick people up as this would be their key market since they are in Northern Ireland.

It's great that you care about people in another country, but it's not particularly relevant to a discussion about our own because at the end of the day, as far as I'm aware we are discussing the effects that it will have on the Republic of Ireland, but if you want to discuss the transport system and how Town's in a different country are served, by all means do so, but I'm just focused on the country I live in.



Actually there has been rumours for years about operators starting on that route however they have been loathe to start because they have been worried about the possible reaction by a strong incumbent and the investment in the service which could be a waste of money because the following day a competitor could match their services and run just ahead of them which makes it a very unattractive investment.

Starting an international route is a far more risky business than a national route, because you have no protection at all from actions by other operators since there is an unlimited number of operators that can operate on an intra-EU route pretty much and there is no requirement for the services to be separated by time so there could be head to head running.

So again my suggestion is to lobby the EU, if the EU did not allow unrestricted, virtually unregulated competition on cross border routes it would make such routes a more attractive investment



But my point is this - you cannot stop these services on IntraEU routes, there can be an unlimited number of international routes in Europe and not a single person outside those in Brussels can do anything about it. Like it or not, it's just the way rules are.

Incidentally Dublin Coach could not call at Newry, Banbridge or Sprucefield on their service if they wanted to, because EU rules only apply when carrying passengers across borders, if you are carrying passengers within a country such passengers need to be carried in accordance with the rules of that country.



It's an example of such a service, but it's not an example of what happens in this state since the route is not one which operates in this state, it is a service that operates cross-state and does not carry any passengers within the state whatsoever.

You keep distracting from the basic point that the new Dublin Coach Dublin Belfast service, is another example of a service between cities, avoiding towns located in between, regardless of the body under which the company received the licence to run the service.

You asked me about my thoughts on the new Belfast Dublin service, and then when I wrote in response to your question, you then said that my reply was not relevant to the discussion.

You don't seem to think it a relevant point to make, about whether or not a service between Belfast and Dublin is serving towns along the route.

XPS_Zero

end of the road wrote: »

the lad your thinking of is probably barry Kenny from IE. i doubt he even believes what he says when it comes to doing pr for IE to be fair.



it's wanting people to lose their jobs because they are doing better then the person wanting them to lose their jobs. it's wrong and begrudgery.

I can't speak for others

I want them to loose them because for ONCE they'll be taught actions have CONSEQUENCES, something that's eluded them in their state bubble. Having a job that's recession proof these days one should thank God for but they instead want us to take from services for weak, sick and young people and use it to prop up their excessive OT

CIARAN_BOYLE

horseburger wrote: »

You keep distracting from the basic point that the new Dublin Coach Dublin Belfast service, is another example of a service between cities, avoiding towns located in between, regardless of the body under which the company received the licence to run the service.

You asked me about my thoughts on the new Belfast Dublin service, and then when I wrote in response to your question, you then said that my reply was not relevant to the discussion.

You don't seem to think it a relevant point to make, about whether or not a service between Belfast and Dublin is serving towns along the route.

It's a commercial route, not a pso one. Why would there be any obligation to serve towns along its route?

horseburger

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

It's a commercial route, not a pso one. Why would there be any obligation to serve towns along its route?

That's the point. It is a new service with no obligation to serve towns along the route.

Do you think Dublin Coach would apply to run any of the services operated by Bus Éireann, that cover intermediate towns, if Bus Éireann collapsed in the way advocated by people in this discussion?

devnull

horseburger wrote: »

You keep distracting from the basic point that the new Dublin Coach Dublin Belfast service, is another example of a service between cities, avoiding towns located in between, regardless of the body under which the company received the licence to run the service.

I'm saying that it's folly to make an argument about the bus service in the state and use a route which doesn't operate within the state to make that point.

There is no such thing as a license for a route between European states.

You asked me about my thoughts on the new Belfast Dublin service, and then when I wrote in response to your question, you then said that my reply was not relevant to the discussion.

What would you do about it?
What would you like to see happen and how would you make it happen?

I'm all ears.

You don't seem to think it a relevant point to make, about whether or not a service between Belfast and Dublin is serving towns along the route.

If the EU did not allow unrestricted, virtually unregulated competition on cross border routes it would make such routes a more attractive investment and would in turn give a greater chance of the Town's being served.

Starting a new cross border route is not an attractive business proposition because an operator is always going to be vulnerable to head to head running ant tactics that would not be able to be pursued in a route fully within ROI.

It's no use posting on a message-board stating that you are concerned about the Towns not being served on a cross border route. if you feel so strongly about it contact your local MEP, because at the end of the day he can do something to help change legislation which will make cross border routes more attractive to new entrants, nobody in this country can.

horseburger

devnull wrote: »

I'm saying that it's folly to make an argument about the bus service in the state and use a route which doesn't operate within the state to make that point.

There is no such thing as a license for a route between European states.



What would you do about it?
What would you like to see happen and how would you make it happen?

I'm all ears.



If the EU did not allow unrestricted, virtually unregulated competition on cross border routes it would make such routes a more attractive investment and would in turn give a greater chance of the Town's being served.

Starting a new cross border route is not an attractive business proposition because an operator is always going to be vulnerable to head to head running ant tactics that would not be able to be pursued in a route fully within ROI.

It's no use posting on a message-board stating that you are concerned about the Towns not being served on a cross border route. if you feel so strongly about it contact your local MEP, because at the end of the day he can do something to help change legislation which will make cross border routes more attractive to new entrants, nobody in this country can.

You know what I meant, the body that gave the company the go ahead to run the route.

You keep bringing up the fact that the towns I mentioned are in Northern Ireland. That is a distraction to the basic point I am making about the service being another service that avoids intermediate towns.

Anyway, I wonder how successful it'll be, considering it doesn't serve Dublin Airport.

CIARAN_BOYLE

horseburger wrote: »

That's the point. It is a new service with no obligation to serve towns along the route.

Do you think Dublin Coach would apply to run any of the services operated by Bus Éireann, that cover intermediate towns, if Bus Éireann collapsed in the way advocated by people in this discussion?

They would probably accept the terms of any pso route with a suitable subsidy that was made available to it.

The expressway routes either will be dropped or become pso routes.

end of the road

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

This strike is absolutely atrocious and should NOT be allowed.

it has to be allowed. it was voted for by the workers and is democratic. i don't agree it is the right course of action either but by not allowing it you would be going against democracy.

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

The unions do not care or do not represent the workers.

the workers make the decisians via a ballot and the union has to give the relevant notice. if the unions weren't representing the workers then the workers would have gone to other unions by now who would represent them.

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

The government/Shane Ross are spineless, useless idiots. They should declare the strike illegal

the government can't declare anything illegal. they have to make something illegal, and they would have to have political support for it to get any legislation passed making whatever illegal. if the government were to simply declare the strike illegal tomorrow that would be against democracy and would make ireland a dictatorship. they could effectively declare anything they wanted illegal without due process.

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Yes, workers have a right to protest and yes unions have a purpose but not this type of thing that is only a few notches removed from violence. It is the worst extreme of the non-violent way

oh come on. lets not dramatise the reality here. it's a strike, nothing more. yes it's disruptive, but it is as far from extreme and being the worst of the non-violent ways as it gets.

devnull

horseburger wrote: »

Do you think Dublin Coach would apply to run any of the services operated by Bus Éireann, that cover intermediate towns, if Bus Éireann collapsed in the way advocated by people in this discussion?

You do realise that Dublin Coach don't just operate non stop services between the major cities?

Lots of intermediate Towns here:
http://dublincoach.ie/timetables-fares/N7-bus-dublin-airport-to-portlaoise.php

Quite a few here too:
http://dublincoach.ie/timetables-fares/M7-bus-ennis-tralee-killarney-limerick-dublin-city.php

So they operate a mixture of services. If Dublin Coach only operated services between major cities and no intermediate Towns whatsoever you'd maybe, just have maybe something that might resemble a valid point.

However you seem to suggest that Dublin COach won't run any services that serve intermediate Towns but they do, and since we can't tell the future, past actions are the best guide we can go on and past actions show they will.

devnull

If the EU did not allow unrestricted, virtually unregulated competition on cross border routes it would make such routes a more attractive investment and would in turn give a greater chance of the Town's being served. Starting a new cross border route is not an attractive business proposition because an operator is always going to be vulnerable to head to head running ant tactics that would not be able to be pursued in a route fully within ROI.

It's no use posting on a message-board stating that you are concerned about the Towns not being served on a cross border route. if you feel so strongly about it contact your local MEP, because at the end of the day he can do something to help change legislation which will make cross border routes more attractive to new entrants, nobody in this country can.

horseburger wrote: »

You know what I meant, the body that gave the company the go ahead to run the route.

A body can only decide if a route can go ahead based on the law that has been passed and the regulations that they have to adhere to. They cannot one day decide that they think the route is wrong and they will reject it, they can only do that if they have a valid reason as laid out in their procedures to do so and in line with the relevant EU regulations.

For the route in question the European Union sets the laws and whether any country likes them or not, that is just the way they are. If you don't like to be under European Union laws and you care so much about people in the North, in two years time you will have an option most likely to go to a country when you don't need to be constrained by Europe anymore.

According to EU regulations, Dublin Coach have done nothing wrong, therefore there is not much that can be done about it unless the regulations are changed, so there was no option but for them to give the service the go ahead.

end of the road

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I can't speak for others

I want them to loose them because for ONCE they'll be taught actions have CONSEQUENCES, something that's eluded them in their state bubble. Having a job that's recession proof these days one should thank God for but they instead want us to take from services for weak, sick and young people and use it to prop up their excessive OT

the drivers are all ready aware of the potential consiquences but obviously feel that they have no other option but to strike. them losing their jobs because begrudgery won't teach them anything as there is nothing to teach/be thought. i have all ready made it clear that i believe striking isn't the right course of action here, however people have a duty in my view to respect the democratic decisian made by the staff. they don't have to agree with the strike, as i don't, but we have to respect their decisian.

horseburger

devnull wrote: »

You do realise that Dublin Coach don't just operate non stop services between the major cities?

Lots of intermediate Towns here:
http://dublincoach.ie/timetables-fares/N7-bus-dublin-airport-to-portlaoise.php

Quite a few here too:
http://dublincoach.ie/timetables-fares/M7-bus-ennis-tralee-killarney-limerick-dublin-city.php

So they operate a mixture of services. If Dublin Coach only operated services between major cities and no intermediate Towns whatsoever you'd maybe, just have maybe something that might resemble a valid point.

However you seem to suggest that Dublin COach won't run any services that serve intermediate Towns but they do, and since we can't tell the future, past actions are the best guide we can go on and past actions show they will.

Yeah, because an intermediate stop between Dublin and Portlaoise, or Ennis to Dublin, is really useful for anyone from Belfast, or Newry or Banbridge going to Dublin City Centre or Dublin Airport!

I specifically mentioned the new Dublin Coach service, in relation to it not stopping anywhere in between Belfast and Dublin. I did not mention its other services.

I know they serve intermediate towns on its other services. The Portlaoise Dublin service is a different type of service, to many of Bus Éireann's services that cover intermediate towns, that do not have Dublin Airport as a stop.

I don't think that Dublin Coach would serve those intermediate towns between Portlaoise and Dublin, if it didn't have a connecting service to Dublin Airport as a stop.

I don't think Dublin Coach would not run services covering all those intermediate stops, throughout the night, if Dublin Airport wasn't one of its other connecting stops. They are different types of services to many of Bus Éireann's services that connect villages and towns, that don't have Dublin city centre or Dublin Aiprport as stops.

If Bus Éireann collapsed, as advocated by people in this discussion, would Dublin Coach, as an example, run a daily hourly service between Drogheda and Trim?

I think you are once again attempting to distract from the point I made.

devnull

horseburger wrote: »

Yeah, because an intermediate stop between Dublin and Portlaoise, or Ennis to Dublin, is really useful for anyone from Belfast, or Newry or Banbridge going to Dublin City Centre or Dublin Airport!

"You do realise" that I specifically mentioned the new Dublin Coach service, in relation to it not stopping anywhere in between Belfast and Dublin. I did not mention its other services.

No you did not, you said the following:

Do you think Dublin Coach would apply to run any of the services operated by Bus Éireann, that cover intermediate towns, if Bus Éireann collapsed in the way advocated by people in this discussion?

I said:

You do realise that Dublin Coach don't just operate non stop services between the major cities?

Lots of intermediate Towns here: http://dublincoach.ie/timetables-far...portlaoise.php
Quite a few here too: http://dublincoach.ie/timetables-far...ublin-city.php

So they operate a mixture of services. If Dublin Coach only operated services between major cities and no intermediate Towns whatsoever you'd maybe, just have maybe something that might resemble a valid point.

However you seem to suggest that Dublin COach won't run any services that serve intermediate Towns but they do, and since we can't tell the future, past actions are the best guide we can go on and past actions show they will.

I quoted your words and I replied to them.

I think you are once again attempting to distract from the point I made.

I merely replied to the point you posted, now you're just changing tack, because of the fact that I happened to make a counter point that just happened to prove that Dublin Coach have a history of operating both services serving intermediate towns and express services which shows that they do not just operate routes which are express or not serving intermediate towns as you are appearing to suggest.

You appeared to be making a suggestion that Dublin Coach may not have any interest in operating services that serve intermediate towns, I countered that with proof that they already do operate such services so this is proof that they have been interested in such services in the past so it's a good indicator that they will be again.

horseburger

devnull wrote: »

No you did not, you said the following:


I said:


I quoted your words and I replied to them.



I merely replied to the point you posted, now you're just changing tack, because of the fact that I happened to make a counter point that just happened to prove that Dublin Coach have a history of operating both services serving intermediate towns and express services which shows that they do not just operate routes which are express or not serving intermediate towns as you are appearing to suggest.

You appeared to be making a suggestion that Dublin Coach may not have any interest in operating services that serve intermediate towns, I countered that with proof that they already do operate such services so this is proof that they have been interested in such services in the past so it's a good indicator that they will be again.

The service you mentioned has a connection to Dublin Airport.

I did not specifically mention the other services run by Dublin Coach. I made reference to the new Belfast Dublin service. I asked if Dublin Coach would run other services operated by Bus Éireann. I did not mention its other services.

I asked you if Dublin Coach would run a service between towns but not including Dublin or Dublin Aiport as a stop, for example the Bus Éireann daily service between Drogheda and Trim.

Nice of you to accuse me of changing tack, considering the blatant way you have misrepresented, what I wrote, in a previous discussion.

devnull

horseburger wrote: »

I know they serve intermediate towns on its other services. The Portlaoise Dublin service is a different type of service, to many of Bus Éireann's services that cover intermediate towns, that do not have Dublin Airport as a stop.

I don't think that Dublin Coach would serve those intermediate towns between Portlaoise and Dublin, if it didn't have a connecting service to Dublin Airport as a stop.

I don't think Dublin Coach would not run services covering all those intermediate stops, throughout the night, if Dublin Airport wasn't one of its other connecting stops. They are different types of services to many of Bus Éireann's services that connect villages and towns, that don't have Dublin city centre or Dublin Aiprport as stops.

Having been on those services, I can assure you that there is far more than Dublin/Airport on that route, you shoudl take a ride on it someday, it might open your eyes to what happens in reality as opposed to what you think. There is a lot of local traffic, so much so that they have had to add extra services between some local stops to cope with demand.

See timetable below:
http://dublincoach.ie/timetables-fares/N7-supp-bus-kildare-town-naas.php

You will notice that Naas, Newbridge and Kildare have a much higher frequency than Dublin Airport or Dublin City on that route, but according to you Dublin is the big puller on that route, if that is the case can you explain to me why Newbridge, Naas and Kildare has 10 more services a day than the places you suggest are the big traffic drivers?

By the way, you reference 'different types' of Bus Eireann services that do not serve Dublin or the Airport, can you name, say three of them? Thanks

If Bus Éireann collapsed, as advocated by people in this discussion, would Dublin Coach, as an example, run a daily hourly service between Drogheda and Trim?

I will use my magic 8 ball and get back to you on that one since you constantly keep wanting me to tell the future, I really must try and see one of those charlatans, sorry, I mean Psychics who are on late night TV shows charging premium rates, s because maybe they would know the answer.

It's a sign of a weak point when in the absence of any cold and hard facts you start throwing around many ifs and buts and start casting doubts about what may or may not happen in the future. Nobody can tell the future either way, nobody knows what will happen tomorrow, every day is a new day.

I could make up many hypothesis about what may or may happen in the future and endlessly speculate and say what if etc, but I don't think that's very credible so you will notice that I have always refrained from doing so and when I do talk about what may happen in the future, I always try and back it up with experience to support it, rather than hyperbole and idly speculating.

54and56

Let them strike all they want, people will find alternative ways to get to their destinations and the irrelevance of Bus Eireann will only be further highlighted by the lack of impact their strike will have.

horseburger

devnull wrote: »

Having been on those services, I can assure you that there is far more than Dublin/Airport on that route, you shoudl take a ride on it someday, it might open your eyes to what happens in reality as opposed to what you think. There is a lot of local traffic, so much so that they have had to add extra services between some local stops to cope with demand.

See timetable below:
http://dublincoach.ie/timetables-fares/N7-supp-bus-kildare-town-naas.php

You will notice that Naas, Newbridge and Kildare have a much higher frequency than Dublin Airport or Dublin City on that route, but according to you Dublin is the big puller on that route, if that is the case can you explain to me why Newbridge, Naas and Kildare has 10 more services a day than the places you suggest are the big traffic drivers?

By the way, you reference 'different types' of Bus Eireann services that do not serve Dublin or the Airport, can you name, say three of them? Thanks



I will use my magic 8 ball and get back to you on that one since you constantly keep wanting me to tell the future, I really must try and see one of those charlatans, sorry, I mean Psychics who are on late night TV shows charging premium rates, s because maybe they would know the answer.

It's a sign of a weak point when in the absence of any cold and hard facts you start throwing around many ifs and buts and start casting doubts about what may or may not happen in the future. Nobody can tell the future either way, nobody knows what will happen tomorrow, every day is a new day.

I could make up many hypothesis about what may or may happen in the future and endlessly speculate and say what if etc, but I don't think that's very credible so you will notice that I have always refrained from doing so and when I do talk about what may happen in the future, I always try and back it up with experience to support it, rather than hyperbole and idly speculating.

They are different types of services. You keep attempting to distract from the issue, that no assurance can be given by the NTA, that services currently operated by Bus Éireann, would continue to be served, in the same way, by other coach companies.

devnull

horseburger wrote: »

The service you mentioned has a connection to Dublin Airport.

When you posted it at 00:59 you did not mention anything about Dublin Airport, you edited your post at 1:17am to add that part and are now using it as a stick to beat me with, knowing full well that when I replied to your post that part wasn't there, regardless of the fact that is not even where the highest usage is on that route,

I did not specifically mention the other services run by Dublin Coach. I made reference to the new Belfast Dublin service. I asked if Dublin Coach would run other services operated by Bus Éireann. I did not mention its other services.

You said:

Do you think Dublin Coach would apply to run any of the services operated by Bus Éireann, that cover intermediate towns, if Bus Éireann collapsed in the way advocated by people in this discussion?

I showed you that they already operate services between intermediate towns so it is not a stretch of the imagination to suggest that they will do in future.

I asked you if Dublin Coach would run a service between towns but not including Dublin or Dublin Aiport as a stop, for example the Bus Éireann daily service between Drogheda and Trim.

Nice of you to accuse me of changing tack, considering the blatant way you have misrepresented, what I wrote, in a previous discussion.

At 00:59 you never said that, you edited it, after I quoted your post and are now claiming that i misrepresented your post, I replied to what was there at the time I replied to it, the fact you edited it later to attempt to score a cheap point by misquoting me proves quite the reverse.

devnull

horseburger wrote: »

They are different types of services. You keep attempting to distract from the issue, that no assurance can be given by the NTA, that services currently operated by Bus Éireann, would continue to be served, in the same way, by other coach companies.

All I'm asking you to do is to back up your points and compare an apple with an apple, it's all I am asking you to do, I'm sick of comparing apples with oranges, because quite frankly I hate oranges.

You are looking for fortune telling it appears and predictions on the future, may I kindly suggest that you contact a psychic since I'm sure that they will be able to be of more help.

horseburger

devnull wrote: »

When you posted it at 00:59 you did not mention anything about Dublin Airport, you edited your post at 1:17am to add that part and are now using it as a stick to beat me with, knowing full well that when I replied to your post that part wasn't there, regardless of the fact that is not even where the highest usage is on that route,



You said:


I showed you that they already operate services between intermediate towns so it is not a stretch of the imagination to suggest that they will do in future.



At 00:59 you never said that, you edited it, after I quoted your post and are now claiming that i misrepresented your post, I replied to what was there at the time I replied to it, the fact you edited it later to attempt to score a cheap point by misquoting me proves quite the reverse.

I clearly asked you if Dublin Coach would operate a service like the Drogheda Trim Bus Éireann route. I gave that example because the Dublin Coach services you mentioned as covering intermediate towns, have connecting services to Dublin Airport and Dublin City Centre.

I asked this with reference to the Dublin Coach services, to which you referred, having Dublin and Dublin Airport as stops.

The fact that Dublin Airport is a connecting stop on the Dublin Coach services that you mentioned, differentiates those services to the Bus Éireann services to which I am referring.

devnull

horseburger wrote: »

I clearly asked you if Dublin Coach would operate a service like the Drogheda Trim Bus Éireann route.

As it stands they cannot because PSO routes are protected from competition.

BE operate that route as they are provided free vehicles and state funding to do so.

horseburger

devnull wrote: »

As it stands they cannot because PSO routes are protected from competition.

BE operate that route as they are provided free vehicles and state funding to do so.

The issue is, would other bus companies be inclined to operate PSO routes?

Has any interest been shown, by other bus companies, to run such routes?

Cookie_Monster

horseburger wrote: »

If Bus Éireann collapsed, as advocated by people in this discussion, would Dublin Coach, as an example, run a daily hourly service between Drogheda and Trim?

yes, because they will be paid to do it, just like BE are currently, obviously. And with lower costs then BE would have they'd make money. Why wouldn't they, the only reason not to would be if the NTA didn't provide the buses (like they gift to BE) and they couldn't source them quick enough.

A guaranteed payment fro a pso route regardless of number carried surely must be preferential to the unknown of a fully commercial route?!

pjohnson

end of the road wrote: »

the drivers are all ready aware of the potential consiquences but obviously feel that they have no other option but to strike. them losing their jobs because begrudgery won't teach them anything as there is nothing to teach/be thought. i have all ready made it clear that i believe striking isn't the right course of action here, however people have a duty in my view to respect the democratic decisian made by the staff. they don't have to agree with the strike, as i don't, but we have to respect their decisian.

Respecting stupidity only breeds more stupidity. The morons do need to get thought a lesson they clearly dont understand basic business concepts. They hear a business is loosing a disastrous amount of money but mentally deficient decide to strike and refuse to accept any reduction. Let them kill the company and try surviving in the real world.