BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

Fred Swanson

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oppenheimer1

We can't say until the outcome of the BÉ executive meeting today is known.

The union's have said they will be on all out from the day the cuts are implemented.

devnull

Where are you going to/from?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

devnull

Also consider Wexford Bus if the times and the stops suit
http://wexfordbus.com/timetables/wexford-dublin-airport/

liger

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Airport to/from Wexford.

Yeah, wexford bus is probably your fastest option. The train is painfully slow and by the time you get to connolly you'd be on the m11 already with the bus.

Jamie2k9

Chances are next Monday or Monday after that, reckon BE will announce cuts to commence from 27 March.

Fred Swanson

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Jamie2k9

Bus Éireann management and unions may re-enter talks to resolve their industrial dispute - if unions provide clarification later today that there is scope for flexibility on certain issues including overall pay.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0315/859836-bus-eireann/

jimmycrackcorm

I was toying with taking the Expressway up home to Donegal for paddys weekend as it's a more relaxing, let alone cheaper travel, than driving. But I can't tell if the union would suddenly go on strike and then I could possibly be stuck if relying on the more popular private busses such as McGinleys. Expressway has the advantage that on off-peak time, you can get a double seat to relax.

end of the road

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I was toying with taking the Expressway up home to Donegal for paddys weekend as it's a more relaxing, let alone cheaper travel, than driving. But I can't tell if the union would suddenly go on strike and then I could possibly be stuck if relying on the more popular private busses such as McGinleys. Expressway has the advantage that on off-peak time, you can get a double seat to relax.

the staff can't suddenly go on strike. the union must give notice of intent that the staff will strike. i believe it is 7 days minimum notice required.

jimmycrackcorm

end of the road wrote: »

the staff can't suddenly go on strike. the union must give notice of intent that the staff will strike. i believe it is 7 days minimum notice required.

You're assuming that the staff is reasonable. If BE were to announce that they were going ahead with the indicated cuts, the union has said it would result in immediate action.

"We will of course endeavour, on behalf of commuters and our members, to work towards resolving this crisis, however, the attitude displayed by Bus Éireann management to date has left us with no option but to advise our members that they should remain on a war-footing and be prepared to engage in an immediate all-out strike, should the company plough ahead with its Irish Ferries style attack on bus workers moderate terms and conditions," said Mr O'Leary.

end of the road

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You're assuming that the staff is reasonable. If BE were to announce that they were going ahead with the indicated cuts, the union has said it would result in immediate action.

the union has said it would result in immediate action, but it can't result in immediate action legally.

Fred Swanson

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Brendan Bendar

Looks like BE mgmnt has taken the inevitable step...

readytosnap

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Looks like BE mgmnt has taken the inevitable step...

link?

Gael23

readytosnap wrote: »

link?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0322/861654-bus-eireann/

n97 mini

NBRU's reaction to BE's "Declaration of War" here. Hard to tell What it Means, seems to be indicating the Strike will be Called Quickly but not that Quickly, i.e. less than 24 hours.

Brendan Bendar

n97 mini wrote: »

NBRU's reaction to BE's "Declaration of War" here. Hard to tell What it Means, seems to be indicating the Strike will be Called Quickly but not that Quickly, i.e. less than 24 hours.

Cannot understand the logic of O'Leary going into talks and not being prepared to give an inch on workers pay.

Efficiencies are one thing but they won't save 50k a day or anything near it.

For the taxpayers sake I hope Ross has the cahunas to remain clear of this mess.

punisher5112

1st think cut the top heavy management.
2nd stop contracting out to private operators.
3rd get rid of extremely long term sick that are never going to come back.
4th run better manageable times that will work.
Many many other things and also fuel savings could be increased by capping how high engine revs and correct limiters.

jimmycrackcorm

punisher5112 wrote:

1st think cut the top heavy management. 2nd stop contracting out to private operators. 3rd get rid of extremely long term sick that are never going to come back. 4th run better manageable times that will work. Many many other things and also fuel savings could be increased by capping how high engine revs and correct limiters.

1. Contract everything out to private operators.
Problem solved

punisher5112

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

1. Contract everything out to private operators.
Problem solved

Then it will be no different then the UK which turned out to be a mess similar to the huge issues with the rail also.

Bad idea giving up or losing publicly owned industries such as transport and other issues like housing and roads.

It just makes someone richer and richer while the rest will suffer.

oppenheimer1

punisher5112 wrote: »

1st think cut the top heavy management.
2nd stop contracting out to private operators.
3rd get rid of extremely long term sick that are never going to come back.
4th run better manageable times that will work.
Many many other things and also fuel savings could be increased by capping how high engine revs and correct limiters.

That's great, but it won't solve the main problem - that is the company has too many drivers, and that these drivers are doing overtime because of inefficient rosters.

Dealing with this issue will necessitate a reduction in take home pay as it appears many BE drivers have become accustomed to getting overtime rather than considering it an occasional bonus.

Just to add, that press release is a shambles. Is there not a professional PRO in the outfit at all?

jimmycrackcorm

punisher5112 wrote:

Then it will be no different then the UK which turned out to be a mess similar to the huge issues with the rail also.

It's not the same as the UK allow for unregulated routes. The PSO can be tendered out for one or multiple routes.

On many routes already there are private operators anyway but they don't have the benefit of a subsidy.

punisher5112 wrote:

Bad idea giving up or losing publicly owned industries such as transport and other issues like housing and roads.

Like LUAS the state could own the infrastructure but tender out for operators. The taxpayer don't have to shell out extra for the recent wage increases that their divers received.

I dont see how we are better off having BE instead of paying for private operators to provide the same service.

punisher5112 wrote:

It just makes someone richer and richer while the rest will suffer.

At the moment BE staff are being richer and the transport users poorer. Aer Lingus was also considered the national air transport, and now everyone is better off, staff, passengers and Michael O'Leary

end of the road

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

1. Contract everything out to private operators.
Problem solved

not problem solved as the cost are likely to rise long term as each company would have separate management among other things rather then the economies of scale be currently have. punisher's suggestions are very good ones and should have been done years ago.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's not the same as the UK allow for unregulated routes. The PSO can be tendered out for one or multiple routes.

On many routes already there are private operators anyway but they don't have the benefit of a subsidy.

even with tendering it would be more or less the same as the uk. routes are tendered by local authorities in the uk but a huge number have gone over the years because of cost.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Like LUAS the state could own the infrastructure but tender out for operators. The taxpayer don't have to shell out extra for the recent wage increases that their divers received.

there is no evidence for that, as the luas contract won't be up until 2019. it is possible then the payment will have to go up to reflect the wage increases.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I dont see how we are better off having BE instead of paying for private operators to provide the same service.

because it's less costly over all. BE can keep routes going even when times are really tough, and it's politically impossible to implement large scale closures of routes which is a good thing mostly.

oppenheimer1

All out strike from midnight tonight
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0323/861984-bus-eireann/

hmmm

It will be interesting to see whether going on strike will generate the money required to keep BE afloat.

daheff

cant understand the logic of the BE workers on this. company is about to go bust and they wont accept a pay cut to try keep it going?

I understand a pay cut on its own wont solve the problem, but it will help. I know BE has to do other things to help resolve the issue, but staff unwilling to help save their own jobs is just illogical. Do they think Ross has a money tree to help them out?

pjohnson

end of the road wrote: »

the staff can't suddenly go on strike. the union must give notice of intent that the staff will strike. i believe it is 7 days minimum notice required.

7 Day Notice you say?

pjohnson

daheff wrote: »

cant understand the logic of the BE workers on this. company is about to go bust and they wont accept a pay cut to try keep it going?

I understand a pay cut on its own wont solve the problem, but it will help. I know BE has to do other things to help resolve the issue, but staff unwilling to help save their own jobs is just illogical. Do they think Ross has a money tree to help them out?

Even though I'm now going to be dishing out €75 tomoro to get to town and home I'm actually glad to spend it if it means BE goes bust and these moronic strikers go to the dole. They do annual strikes at this stage. They clearly dont want to work just complain and get extremely good pay. Just sick to death of them holding the country to ransom.

punisher5112

pjohnson wrote: »

7 Day Notice you say?

Notice was already given and only postponed

end of the road

pjohnson wrote: »

Even though I'm now going to be dishing out €75 tomoro to get to town and home I'm actually glad to spend it if it means BE goes bust and these moronic strikers go to the dole. They do annual strikes at this stage. They clearly dont want to work just complain and get extremely good pay. Just sick to death of them holding the country to ransom.

the strikers won't be going to the dole. if they don't want to work then there would be no service at all, the fact that there is means clearly they do want to work. i can't remember when the last bus eireann strike was so again it's clear that they don't hold annual strikes. they don't hold the country to ransom and never have.

Dravokivich

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's not the same as the UK allow for unregulated routes. The PSO can be tendered out for one or multiple routes.

On many routes already there are private operators anyway but they don't have the benefit of a subsidy.

They don't get a subsidy because they aren't PSO routes.

The main contention I've seen in the news with Bus Eireann is trying to off load Express Way. This part of their business is not funded by subsidy either.

thisonetaken

daheff wrote: »

cant understand the logic of the BE workers on this. company is about to go bust and they wont accept a pay cut to try keep it going?

I understand a pay cut on its own wont solve the problem, but it will help. I know BE has to do other things to help resolve the issue, but staff unwilling to help save their own jobs is just illogical. Do they think Ross has a money tree to help them out?

We all know Ross will fold faster than superman on laundry day, with reductions on income tax and USC put back for yet another year to pay for it. He just has to make it seem to the public like he is standing up to them but we all know it's all just an act.

oppenheimer1

thisonetaken wrote: »

We all know Ross will fold faster than superman on laundry day, with reductions on income tax and USC put back for yet another year to pay for it. He just has to make it seem to the public like he is standing up to them but we all know it's all just an act.

The state cannot subsidise a commercial enterprise.

Thank God for Europe.

end of the road

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The state cannot subsidise a commercial enterprise.

Thank God for Europe.

bus eireann as a whole isn't a commercial enterprise. only part of it is
states can and do "subsidise" either in one off or an ongoing form, commercial enterprises when it suits them.

J.pilkington

This just plays into the private operators hands(where an alternative exists), a lot of goodwill will be lost by those struggling to get to work.

This maybe a motive for management where the expressway will show further losses giving more merit to shutdown.

Arcade_Tryer

thisonetaken wrote: »

We all know Ross will fold faster than superman on laundry day, with reductions on income tax and USC put back for yet another year to pay for it. He just has to make it seem to the public like he is standing up to them but we all know it's all just an act.

That would be an excellent result, regardless of the reason.

Stephen15

end of the road wrote: »

i can't remember when the last bus eireann strike was so again it's clear that they don't hold annual strikes. they don't hold the country to ransom and never have.

2015 alongside DB against privatisation before that 2013

daheff

thisonetaken wrote: »

We all know Ross will fold faster than superman on laundry day, with reductions on income tax and USC put back for yet another year to pay for it.

How much does BE need? 30/40m ? How much do we collect in IC /USC? in the billions. I cant see a cut in IC/USC being put back to cover a relatively small amount

oppenheimer1

end of the road wrote: »

bus eireann as a whole isn't a commercial enterprise. only part of it is
states can and do "subsidise" either in one off or an ongoing form, commercial enterprises when it suits them.

The Irish government won't get away with subsidising Expressway, not when there are commercial operators in the market. It's the same reason the government couldn't bail out Aer Lingus back in the day.

The privates will be watching closely.

LeinsterDub

NBRU can't 'rule out' Dublin and Irish Rail will go out in sympathy

Brendan Bendar

end of the road wrote: »

the strikers won't be going to the dole. if they don't want to work then there would be no service at all, the fact that there is means clearly they do want to work. i can't remember when the last bus eireann strike was so again it's clear that they don't hold annual strikes. they don't hold the country to ransom and never have.

They are doing it now,that's all that matters.

What's their strategy.

1. Hope that public opinion will force Rosses' hand

2. Hope to drag other transport utilities into the mix as implied by Noone on Drivetime.

3. Hope that public 'support' by people who don't see the big picture will sway the Govt.to get involved.

The issues here are quite simple. The cost base in BE is way out of kilter with their competitors as are the work practices.

This needs to be sorted, not fudged by endless agreements and conditions.

The taxpayer( you and me) in case you are wondering, are paying for this.

I for one can see that in my opinion I am being gouged by these people, and want to get value for money.

oppenheimer1

LeinsterDub wrote: »

NBRU can't 'rule out' Dublin and Irish Rail will go out in sympathy

I've said it before, if the other two go out in sympathy then NBRU should be sued for loss of earnings.

murphaph

LeinsterDub wrote: »

NBRU can't 'rule out' Dublin and Irish Rail will go out in sympathy

If they do then it's the end of CIE. Hopefully BE will quickly fold and it's routes be tendered out. I wonder have the NTA got a plan in place at all.

I feel sorry for ordinary commuters caught up in this but BE has to go now.

Idbatterim

Then it will be no different then the UK which turned out to be a mess similar to the huge issues with the rail also.

Bad idea giving up or losing publicly owned industries such as transport and other issues like housing and roads.

It just makes someone richer and richer while the rest will suffer.

laughable. In the ROI, anything state run, the only ones creaming it in are the employees for a **** service.

Brendan Bendar

murphaph wrote: »

If they do then it's the end of CIE. Hopefully BE will quickly fold and it's routes be tendered out. I wonder have the NTA got a plan in place at all.

I feel sorry for ordinary commuters caught up in this but BE has to go now.

Absolutely, time this gouging of the taxpayer was stood up to.

Like yourself I feel sorry for the commuters and also for the genuine people working in BE who seem to be pawns in a power game.

The public should really look as this closely and tell these people that the gravy train has hit the buffers.

Idbatterim

Absolutely, time this gouging of the taxpayer was stood up to.

Like yourself I feel sorry for the commuters and also for the genuine people working in BE who seem to be pawns in a power game.

The public should really look as this closely and tell these people that the gravy train has hit the buffers.

if people can park for free in their place of work or college, I have no sympathy. The notion of not driving in this strike infested, 3rd world transport kip, is beyond a joke... take some responsibility, cause the Irish state sure wont!

It said that the company's financial losses for January and February of this year are 41% higher than for the same period in 2016. It also said that losses for last year were €9.4m.

Id love to see the break down on these figures! I.e. how much is due to higher costs v lost customers etc. 41% year on year is staggering!

Brendan Bendar

Idbatterim wrote: »

if people can park for free in their place of work or college, I have no sympathy. The notion of not driving in this strike infested, 3rd world transport kip, is beyond a joke... take some responsibility, cause the Irish state sure wont!

Up to the public to fight back and not give these people free rein to carry on gouging us.

Might take a week or two, but that would be worth it to see this lot off.

end of the road

Stephen15 wrote: »

2015 alongside DB against priva titration before that 2013

thanks.

Idbatterim

Up to the public to fight back and not give these people free rein to carry on gouging us.

Might take a week or two, but that would be worth it to see this lot off.

I agree, anyone currently using BE who has an alternative, have themselves to blame. Stop using BE, a far better alternative will be put in place...