UFC 209: Woodley vs Thompson 2 Sat Mar 4th

ricero

Gamebred wrote: »

Had to laugh at Woodleys comment at the weigh in ''Please buy the ppv'' lol yeah as if thats gonna make people buy it, hope it doesnt sell and he gets head kicked unconscious so he doesnt make his big money and loses the belt his whinging would be all time high levels, ''they wont buy the ppv because im black''

I reckon woodleys under extreme pressure tonight. He knows its huge not just that he could lose his title but also i reckon he thinks if he wins he gets mcgregor next. Guranteed he calls mcgregor out if he wins but with all this pressure i reckon wonderboy gets the win

Wrongway1985

Gamebred wrote: »

Had to laugh at Woodleys comment at the weigh in ''Please buy the ppv'' lol yeah as if thats gonna make people buy it, hope it doesnt sell and he gets head kicked unconscious so he doesnt make his big money and loses the belt his whinging would be all time high levels, ''they wont buy the ppv because im black''

Also "I'm the greatest Welterweight of all time" yeah sure you are ya drew your last fight sit back down!

GerryDerpy

I find Woodley very annoying. He thinks he is treated unfairly promotion wise because he is black. Whereas the UFC just recognise how unlikeable his personality is and can't wait to have a new champ to promote.

wonderfullife

GerryDerpy wrote: »

I find Woodley very annoying. He thinks he is treated unfairly promotion wise because he is black. Whereas the UFC just recognise how unlikeable his personality is and can't wait to have a new champ to promote.

Here's some interesting stats for ya:

The UFC has broken 1 million PPV buys 14 times in the Promotions history.

4 of them - McGregor
2 of them - Rousey
0 of them - fights involving a black champion.

The UFC's lowest PPV buys in the last 8 years in fights involving champions have been:

Mighty Mouse v Bagunitov (110,000 buys)
Jose Aldo v Chad Mendes 2 (180,000 buys)
Henderson v Edgar 2 (190,000 buys)
Werdum v Miocic (210,000 buys)


So, I think we have a very clear trend here: Black Champions do not sell to the UFC's audience. I suppose you could chalk that up to coincidence but let's remember the key demographic they aim at is:

18-40 white men. That's literally all they care about!

Did they put the same push behind Benson Henderson as they did Frankie Edgar? Did they put the same push behind Mighty Mouse they put behind Cody?

Is it NOTHING to do with race?

I'm not buying it. But I'm equally not buying Woodley's over-simplistic explanation. There's a simple reality at play here and anybody denying it is blinkered or indifferent. Tyron Woodley is 100% correct that the UFC mistreat their black champions but he's wrong on why.

It's clearly just business from the UFC's end. They have ample evidence that black champions do not connect well with their audience (and there are plenty of "Deplorable" racists in their audience) so they don't push them as hard as they do white champions.

It's just business and very little to do with being a likeable guy or not and nothing to do with institutional racism in UFC/WME.

Ush1

wonderfullife wrote: »

Here's some interesting stats for ya:

The UFC has broken 1 million PPV buys 14 times in the Promotions history.

4 of them - McGregor
2 of them - Rousey
0 of them - fights involving a black champion.

The UFC's lowest PPV buys in the last 8 years in fights involving champions have been:

Mighty Mouse v Bagunitov (110,000 buys)
Jose Aldo v Chad Mendes 2 (180,000 buys)
Henderson v Edgar 2 (190,000 buys)
Werdum v Miocic (210,000 buys)


So, I think we have a very clear trend here: Black Champions do not sell to the UFC's audience. I suppose you could chalk that up to coincidence but let's remember the key demographic they aim at is:

18-40 white men. That's literally all they care about!

Did they put the same push behind Benson Henderson as they did Frankie Edgar? Did they put the same push behind Mighty Mouse they put behind Cody?

Is it NOTHING to do with race?

I'm not buying it. But I'm equally not buying Woodley's over-simplistic explanation. There's a simple reality at play here and anybody denying it is blinkered or indifferent. Tyron Woodley is 100% correct that the UFC mistreat their black champions but he's wrong on why.

It's clearly just business from the UFC's end. They have ample evidence that black champions do not connect well with their audience (and there are plenty of "Deplorable" racists in their audience) so they don't push them as hard as they do white champions.

It's just business and very little to do with being a likeable guy or not and nothing to do with institutional racism in UFC/WME.

What a load of waffle. They push those who want to be pushed and are pushable.

If Tyron Woodley was in the least bit charasmatic or interesting, really generating interest, they would get behind him. You don't whinge saying the company aren't promoting me. What are you doing to promote yourself and is it worth it? Woodley himself has said I'll never be that thrash talking type like Conor. Hmm, so he wants to make Conor money and Conor fame while being a bore.

CatFromHue

What were the other 8 fights that broke 1m PPV's?

Anyway Woodley's problem is that people still don't see him as the Champ as his rise to get his title shot was pretty weak and filled with vast amounts of time off.

wonderfullife

Ush1 wrote: »

What a load of waffle. They push those who want to be pushed and are pushable.

If Tyron Woodley was in the least bit charasmatic or interesting, really generating interest, they would get behind him. You don't whinge saying the company aren't promoting me. What are you doing to promote yourself and is it worth it? Woodley himself has said I'll never be that thrash talking type like Conor. Hmm, so he wants to make Conor money and Conor fame while being a bore.

Right so tell me why Aljamain Sterling and Sage Northcutt got completely different pushes?

Sage has the charisma of an onion. Aljo is not much better.

Sage at 2-1 in the UFC got paid $80,000 and got on UFC 200.

Aljo at 4-0 in the UFC got paid $12,000/$12,000 and was on Fight Night Cards.

Both are good looking young guys. Neither have charisma.

One is white with a cheesy smile. The other is black with a cheesy smile.


The only waffle here is coming from you if you're going to sit there and tell me that the reason none of the black champions are a PPV draw or get any push is because they are all boring bastards.

Ush1

wonderfullife wrote: »

Right so tell me why Aljamain Sterling and Sage Northcutt got completely different pushes?

Sage has the charisma of an onion. Aljo is not much better.

Sage at 2-1 in the UFC got paid $80,000 and got on UFC 200.

Aljo at 4-0 in the UFC got paid $12,000/$12,000 and was on Fight Night Cards.

Both are good looking young guys. Neither have charisma.

One is white with a cheesy smile. The other is black with a cheesy smile.


The only waffle here is coming from you if you're going to sit there and tell me that the reason none of the black champions are a PPV draw or get any push is because they are all boring bastards.

There's a million and one reasons why fighters are in ****e contracts, black or white. Managers that can't negotiate, Reeboks influence, ties to gyms, etc...

I didn't sit here and say that, Anderson Silva got plenty of push and he didn't even bother his arse speaking English. Dana has always called him the GOAT etc... Jon Jones has gotten a lot of exposure and they've had plenty of reasons not to want to be associated with him, but you know what, that's what the public likes.

This nonsense of "I'm not being promoted" is loser talk. Floyd Mayweather is the PPV king, being black never stopped him.

You're throwing out random stats on ppvs that really don't offer any substance to what you're saying.

finglashoop

Sage and paige sell - they get paid on how much money they bring in. Woodley and aljo obviously dont generate enough to warrant being paid.

The ufc dont dictate who fans want to see.

Its Not racism.

Its amazing that noone just tells woodley hes a whinging arse hole (imo) and people dont like whinging arseholse whether white or black.

Woodley wants mcgregor money- without doing the things mcgregor does to generate the revenue to justify it.

I hope wonderboy kicks him into next week

Lukker-

finglashoop wrote: »

Sage and paige sell - they get paid on how much money they bring in. Woodley and aljo obviously dont generate enough to warrant being paid.

The ufc dont dictate who fans want to see.

Its Not racism.

Its amazing that noone just tells woodley hes a whinging arse hole (imo) and people dont like whinging arseholse whether white or black.

Woodley wants mcgregor money- without doing the things mcgregor does to generate the revenue to justify it.

I hope wonderboy kicks him into next week

Where has Woodley ever said he wants McGregor money?

We don't even know how big a draw he is because he has never headlined.

His title fight with Lawler did about the same as Bisping/Henderson and that was meant to be a 'money' fight.

The overreaction to him is just a bit rich, you'd swear he was dodging Wonderboy, after already beating the head of him he got a rematch immediately.

finglashoop

Lukker- wrote: »

Where has Woodley ever said he wants McGregor money?

We don't even know how big a draw he is because he has never headlined.

His title fight with Lawler did about the same as Bisping/Henderson and that was meant to be a 'money' fight.

The overreaction to him is just a bit rich, you'd swear he was dodging Wonderboy, after already beating the head of him he got a rematch immediately.

Woodley wanted to fight mcgregor. For the money. Or anyone. Cause he needs to fight someone who is a draw because he is not.

If he was any sort of draw he would of headlined by now. Im sure ufc are able to track non headliners to see who will draw.

red ears

wonderfullife wrote: »

Here's some interesting stats for ya:

The UFC has broken 1 million PPV buys 14 times in the Promotions history.

4 of them - McGregor
2 of them - Rousey
0 of them - fights involving a black champion.

The UFC's lowest PPV buys in the last 8 years in fights involving champions have been:

Mighty Mouse v Bagunitov (110,000 buys)
Jose Aldo v Chad Mendes 2 (180,000 buys)
Henderson v Edgar 2 (190,000 buys)
Werdum v Miocic (210,000 buys)


So, I think we have a very clear trend here: Black Champions do not sell to the UFC's audience. I suppose you could chalk that up to coincidence but let's remember the key demographic they aim at is:

18-40 white men. That's literally all they care about!

Did they put the same push behind Benson Henderson as they did Frankie Edgar? Did they put the same push behind Mighty Mouse they put behind Cody?

Is it NOTHING to do with race?

I'm not buying it. But I'm equally not buying Woodley's over-simplistic explanation. There's a simple reality at play here and anybody denying it is blinkered or indifferent. Tyron Woodley is 100% correct that the UFC mistreat their black champions but he's wrong on why.

It's clearly just business from the UFC's end. They have ample evidence that black champions do not connect well with their audience (and there are plenty of "Deplorable" racists in their audience) so they don't push them as hard as they do white champions.

It's just business and very little to do with being a likeable guy or not and nothing to do with institutional racism in UFC/WME.

I don't think it is about race, it's just that a black fighter hasn't caught the imagination of the mma public yet. Look at Tiger Woods in golf a very white sport but Tiger caught the imagination of the public, Mike Tyson did the same.

Lucas Hood

Most of Americas biggest sports stars are black.
Racism isn't the problem it's their lack of personality holding them back.

red ears

Ush1 wrote: »

What a load of waffle. They push those who want to be pushed and are pushable.

If Tyron Woodley was in the least bit charasmatic or interesting, really generating interest, they would get behind him. You don't whinge saying the company aren't promoting me. What are you doing to promote yourself and is it worth it? Woodley himself has said I'll never be that thrash talking type like Conor. Hmm, so he wants to make Conor money and Conor fame while being a bore.

I think if rampage Jackson came along now in the new era of trash talking he could have been pushed well by the UFC. He was entertaining and a good fighter.

darced

This post has been deleted.

wonderfullife

Ush1 wrote: »

There's a million and one reasons why fighters are in ****e contracts, black or white. Managers that can't negotiate, Reeboks influence, ties to gyms, etc...

This nonsense of "I'm not being promoted" is loser talk. Floyd Mayweather is the PPV king, being black never stopped him.

You're throwing out random stats on ppvs that really don't offer any substance to what you're saying.

There's nothing random about the stats.

The stats show that Black UFC Champions perform very poorly on PPV. That backs up my argument that the UFC would not choose to push them.

If White Pudding was 5 times more popular than Black Pudding, what would Tesco instruct their staff to put at the front of the shelf?

It's just business!! Both are on the shelf and if your customers prefer one over the other, then that's what gets pushed.

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Jon Jones had 2 PPV's do better than 700k.
Anderson Silva had 3.

Brock had 5.
GSP had 6.

GSP was a lay-and-pray, decison-machine yet was consistently outperforming Anderson Silva who was finishing people. Neither of them speak decent English.

None of you want to agree with Woodley because none of you like him but there's a very real point here:

The UFC have never connected with the black audience or succeeded in bringing the black audience over from boxing.

As such, their product is 100% aimed at white people. Sage and Paige are more to the white audience liking than Aljamain Sterling and Angela Hill.

That's just a fact and you can all deny it all you want and blame it on Tyron being a whinge-bag but he's speaking truth that black champions a) do not get the same push b) comparatively get paid less c) a % of the UFC fan base is racist.

Lukker-

finglashoop wrote: »

Lukker- wrote: »

Where has Woodley ever said he wants McGregor money?

We don't even know how big a draw he is because he has never headlined.

His title fight with Lawler did about the same as Bisping/Henderson and that was meant to be a 'money' fight.

The overreaction to him is just a bit rich, you'd swear he was dodging Wonderboy, after already beating the head of him he got a rematch immediately.

Woodley wanted to fight mcgregor. For the money. Or anyone. Cause he needs to fight someone who is a draw because he is not.

If he was any sort of draw he would of headlined by now. Im sure ufc are able to track non headliners to see who will draw.

He's headlining tonight and his single defense was Co main on the biggest card of all time.

wonderfullife

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Most of Americas biggest sports stars are black.
Racism isn't the problem it's their lack of personality holding them back.

There's a clear pattern across American Sports for a variety of reasons.

In the 1960's, 22.4% of the players in the NBA were black. In 2017 that number is now 77.8%.

In 1970's 23.8% of the players in the newly-merged NFL were black. In 2017 that number is 68.7%.

The more popular and marketed players back then were white. Today they are black.

Even boxing, the one combat sport people are holding up as an exception, followed similar patterns.

In 1950, Boxing World Champions included:

Terry Allen (Flyweight)
Willie Pep (Featherweight)
Jake LaMotta (Middleweight)
Joey Maxim (Light Heavyweight)
Rocky Marciano (Heavyweight)

All white champions. Of course there were some black boxers and champions (Joe Louis, Sugar Ray Robinson etc) but their participation and popularity was far lower. Yet today, the most popular fighters are black and participation levels among black boxers is high.

More interestingly, ask yourselves this:

When was the last white light-heavyweight boxing champion (before Nathan Cleverley) Answer = 1987.

Yet mainstream movies about Boxing over the last 30 or 40 years are Raging Bull, Million Dollar Baby, Rocky 1-6, Cindarella Man, The Fighter and Southpaw which all feature white male or female leads in the boxing role.

The director of Southpaw, a black man who wanted the film to have a black lead-actor, said this:

"It comes down to what the people with the money think they can sell. The thinking is, 'Why take a risk when you can do it with formula?'"


The UFC is no different regarding all of the above. The participation of black athletes in the UFC is terribly low (there are currently 3 black female fighters if you include Amanda Nunes as black) and white fighters sell better than black fighters on PPV.

What we will see over the coming decades is increased participation from black fighters and an increase in their earning potential and popularity.

All infant US-sports have followed this pattern across all eras. They all start out as white-dude sports with token black guys and end up with the genetically superior athletes eventually rising to the top.

But yeah lets just say it's ALL BECAUSE Tyron Woodley is an unlikeable moan-bag, ALL BECAUSE Mighty Mouse is a boring decision machine, ALL BECAUSE Daniel Cormier is a lay-and-pray merchant.


The UFC is a white-dude sport just like NBA and NFL and Boxing were at one point in time. Like those sports, it will take time to change that.

Lucas Hood

You omitted Creed from your list of movies there ? That was a mainstream movie with a black lead. Done twice as well as Southpaw with their white lead actor.

wonderfullife

Lucas Hood wrote: »

You omitted Creed from your list of movies there ? That was a mainstream movie with a black lead. Done twice as well as Southpaw with their white lead actor.

Creed would have bombed if it wasn't a Rocky movie. Full stop. It did well because it was a Rocky movie not because of Michael B. Jordan's performance or Tony Bellew's for that matter.

johnpatrick81

Only just saw the big fight is off, gutted!! Ah well I think I'll give it a miss so

wonderfullife

Until Angela Hill was re-signed there was 2 female black UFC fighters and I'm not even sure it's fair to call Amanda Nunes black either.

You could say Danielle Taylor was really the only one.

Yet there's literally dozens of female black fighters on the circuit in the USA who are likely as good as a lot of the dross the UFC have on their roster.

How many black Octagon girls has there been?

Chandella Powell.

That's it and she was dropped like a hot potato.

LENNY86

Great to see all the committed MMA fans are not gonna bother with the event now hahah. Shocking.
For me its a great night of fighting, Karl Moore is also fighting tonight.

johnpatrick81

I'll watch it on 3e during the week. Can only stay up or get up for great cards, this just lost its main draw IMO

mdwexford

wonderfullife wrote: »

Until Angela Hill was re-signed there was 2 female black UFC fighters and I'm not even sure it's fair to call Amanda Nunes black either.

You could say Danielle Taylor was really the only one.

Yet there's literally dozens of female black fighters on the circuit in the USA who are likely as good as a lot of the dross the UFC have on their roster.

How many black Octagon girls has there been?

Chandella Powell.

That's it and she was dropped like a hot potato.

Nobody cares.

This is off topic nonsense.

LENNY86

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

I'll watch it on 3e during the week. Can only stay up or get up for great cards, this just lost its main draw IMO

I understand there is disappointment. Im also disappointed, but Lando Vannata, Wonderboy beating Woodley and Paul Craig will be enough to keep me up personally.

Lukker-

I'll probably stay up to watch it, but Khabib pulling has really taken the wind out of my sails. I was gonna have a few mates over and have some pizza and beers but I'll prob just end up watching it from my bed now.

wonderfullife

mdwexford wrote: »

Nobody cares.

This is off topic nonsense.

Ummm multiple posters raised the topic of Tyron Woodley claiming racism in the run up to his fight tonight.

It couldn't be more on-topic. You're free not to care.

mdwexford

wonderfullife wrote: »

Ummm multiple posters raised the topic of Tyron Woodley claiming racism in the run up to his fight tonight.

It couldn't be more on-topic. You're free not to care.

Black ring girls getting fired has nothing to do with UFC 209.

Your posts today are utter tripe.

wonderfullife

mdwexford wrote: »

Black ring girls getting fired has nothing to do with UFC 209.

Your posts today are utter tripe.

Only one black ring girl ever being hired by the UFC.
Only two black female athletes in the UFC.
Black athletes getting less push than white ones.
Black fighters performing worse on PPV than white ones.

This all relates to Tyron Woodley's claim of endemic racism in the sport - a claim he has made repeatedly in the run up to his fight on UFC 209. I don't agree with him that it's purely racism - It's just a reality that the UFC product is aimed at white people.

Edit: Moving on....