Denis Villeneuve’s Dune

EltonJohn69

5/5

first half hour… I wasn’t sure… there was a lot of exposition (that I was well familiar with) but then it kicks off and it is relentlessly amazing

so good seeing a big movie like this that isn’t isn’t filled with stupid jokes/quips like all the super hero movies…

its a dark movie in a lot of ways… half the cast get slaughtered…..

damm if it gets a sequal it will be a few years….

Relikk

For a long (ish) film it felt a bit rushed during the first 30 or 40 minutes, and it had some clunky dialogue to go with it. It got a fair bit better after that and it was enjoyable enough until the end. I'm mostly going to dock some points because I'm beyond bored with obnoxious Hans Zimmer soundtracks.

EltonJohn69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118060839#Comment_118060839

It was a functional score and did its job well but it is a predictable score… because there is sand of course it has to be the phrygian mode…

the thing I love most about the Lynch movie is the end credits music…. Such a strange but beautiful piece of music to put at the end of the film

https://youtu.be/YRzVFlZxBv4

Dufflecoat Fanny

Wasn't Virgina Madsen so fine back then jesus

Curse These Metal Hands

Agree with others about the score. The same predicable middle eastern desert sound we've heard a million times.

2smiggy

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1451624530674393094

..

ShaneU

brilliant, has to be seen in a cinema

olestoepoke

Watched it last night, left me wanting to see more. I thought it was excellent, I know I watched the older movie as a kid but couldn't remember a lot of it.

Tony EH

Some Spoilers...

A very good adaptation and I can't see too many fans of the book being down on it, despite some changes here and there. In fact the only grating thing was the completely unnecessary sex change of Dr. Liet Kynes. Why that was mandated in a film that's literally dripping with diversity god only knows. It's been exactly 30 years since I read the book, but...

Spoiler Warning

...wasn't Liet Kynes the actual leader of the Fremen? How can that be now when she's a woman. Weren't the Fremen a completely patriarchal society? Which was one of the things that was holding them back in the book? The Fremen were completely male dominated and a society where the men were constantly vying for power at the end of a knife. So one of Herbert's themes was that while they busy knifing each other, they were constantly open to being oppressed on what they considered their planet. Also didn't he die to the desert heat and not a worm?

Curious changes and I don't know what impact they will have for Part 2.

In any case, all in all it's pretty good and the vast cast handle their parts extremely well (including Sharon Duncan-Brewster as the now female Leit Kynes). Especially good, I thought, was Rebecca Fergusson as Jessica Atreides and it was nice to see Charlotte Rampling have a wee part as she's an actress I've always admired. However, her screen time was very small and she'll probably never replace Sian Philips as Mother Mohiam for me, as she will always be the definitive version.

As suspected, Timothée Chalamet was probably one of the weaker members of the cast. His constant brooding became slightly annoying to me. But, he wasn't as annoying as I thought he would be and in the end he makes the role his own. I just don't remember Paul being so damn emo though.

Effects wise, the film is fantastic. It's an absolute visual treat. Equipment and environments are all rendered very convincingly for the most part and the CGI is used brilliantly. There are one or two off moments here and there that I noticed, but maybe on a rewatch they won't stand out so much. But I will admit to missing the Baroque designs of the David Lynch film. That whole opening where Emperor Shaddam IV (who's curiously missing from the movie) meets with the Spacing Guild will always be indelibly printed on my mind.

The Harkonnen are, again, kinda panto villains in this 2021 version. They were pretty ridiculous in the 1984 movie and they have been toned down a bit here. But they are still the obvious bad guys in the room. In fairness, they don't really get a lot of screen time, but I just don't recall them being so OTT in the book. Although they certainly aren't as OTT here as they were in Lynch's version.

I suspect that there was quite a bit filmed, though, that ended up on the cutting room floor. But maybe we'll get an extended Blu Ray version during the year.

At the end, anyway, I wanted the film to continue, even though it's two and a half hours long, which is a very good sign I suppose.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061052#Comment_118061052

Spoiler Warning

I hear he rides one in the next movie 😜

EltonJohn69

For a 2 and 1/2 hour movie it did seem kinda short … and it was only half the book…. It really does prove Lynch had an impossible task of making the book into one movie….. but yeah I think Danny veal-a- nue V nailed the pacing…

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118060933#Comment_118060933

Except for the Atreides music, the Bene Gesserit music and anything involving the Harkonnens or the Sardaukar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061115#Comment_118061115

The Fremen leaders were men but it wasn't any big plot point from what I remember and didn't play any part in holding them back or anything like that and will have no bearing on part 2

I was disappointed though that Keynes didn't get more time to flesh out her dream for Arrakis and I don't think we will see much mention of her being leader of the Fremen rather just a member

Tony EH

Spoiler Warning

It's not so much a plot point as opposed to a pretty major alteration of the society in question and therefore an alteration of how characters operate in that society and how other characters operate with them. Women are not highly regarded within Fremen society. In fact they are little more than possessions for the men. Men who are busy killing one another for tribal hierarchical reasons. Plus there is a shortage of females within the Fremen and Fremen men are subject to trial by mortal combat at the drop of the hat. Especially those in leadership positions. Paul even inherits Jamis' wife after he bests him in combat. And Chani, as Liet Kynes' daughter is also not set to inherit any of her father's rights either and she merely becomes Paul's concubine.

Making Leit Kynes a woman drastically changes all of that dynamic. As I said it's a curious change and not one that has zero impact. I would argue that is no reason at all to change any of the characters sexes, but giving another character a sex change probably wouldn't have had any impact at all. For instance, changing Dr. Yueh to a woman would make absolutely no difference.

But as I said, it's difficult to see where this will go in Part 2, or even 'Dune Messiah' if such a thing gets made. Maybe the idea is to make the Fremen a more egalitarian society and not as patriarchal as they were in the book. But too much of an alteration to them and I can see that getting up the noses of some of the more purest fans. They might take it the same way as including a few blokes in the Bene Gesserit.

EltonJohn69

It looks like we are getting a sequel anyway box office seems to be doing well and THE Warner brothers guy said it’s happening…. 2023 the earliest ? It would be great if they filmed two more back to back… they could still get two more movies out if book 1

Sad Professor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061669#Comment_118061669

There's only about a third of the first book left. That part of the book is rushed so easily enough for one more film but not two, so I don't think so and I don't think Villeneuve does either. He actually ends part 1 earlier than in the original script because he felt it wouldn't leave enough for part 2. Also he's said if there's a third film it will be Messiah.

Anyway it's pretty great. Visually spectacular but more restrained than BR 2049 and the pacing is a lot faster — as said the 2.5 hours fly. As a fan of the book I am very impressed at how the script manages to stay true to the source material while also making sense. I'd argue it makes more sense than the book does. The reviews weren't wrong though: there's a lot of world-building and little resolution. This is unapologetically "part one" and the ending resembles the final scene before an intermission might happen. 

Tony, as I understand it, Knyes's position among the Fremen was inherited, so their gender is irrelevant, and I agree with breezy that it wasn't a big plot point so even if there is a change there it won't make any difference to the story.

Tony EH

Tony, as I understand it, Knyes's position among the Fremen was inherited, so their gender is irrelevant, and I agree with breezy that it wasn't a big plot point so even if there is a change there it won't make any difference to the story.

Leit is half Fremen I think on the mothers side? He inherits his fathers (not a Fremen) title and position. His mother didn't get to become the leader. He ends up as leader because of his sex I assume. If gender wasn't important to the Fremen, then his mother would have become the leader.

All of this yap makes me want to read the book again.

Sad Professor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061811#Comment_118061811

Even in feudal systems you can have female rulers who inherit their father's power and there's plenty of examples from our own history. Patriarchy make such rulers unlikely but not impossible. The preference is of course for a male ruler and we see this in the film, so that aspect is unchanged, but where there is no male heir they may accept a woman in certain circumstances. I would note as well that the Fremen are more tribal than strictly feudal and tribal societies may allow for greater deal of equality between the sexes (islamic ones excluded). Ultimately we'll have to see how they deal with this in part 2 and where they are going with it.

EltonJohn69

I think one of the best visuals of the movie is the Baron floating at the end of the table with a powerless/naked/awkward Leto at the other end

it really reminded me of the scene in Godfather 2 with Michael and Fredo… same power dynamic.. and both Leto and Fredo are basically already dead…. Michael and the Baron have decided they must die

i wonder if Danny Vealnuve was consciously taking a bit of inspiration from the scene

Fredo really made an awful choice of chair… can’t really blame Leto for his poor chair posture…

https://youtu.be/5Weaop_aiTg

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061857#Comment_118061857

Sure. I'm aware of what happens in the real world with regards to female rulers.

However I'm talking specifically about Herbert's take on the Fremen society that he made up and it is, without a doubt, a fiercely patriarchal one, and for the worse Herbert seems to suggest. In fact, all of the "houses" in the book are male dominated. Which is one of the reasons why the Bene Gesserit and their mechanisations are so important to the story. Doesn't Mohiam admonish Jessica for deliberately having a male child because everywhere else is essentially a patriarchy? They considered it a "crime".

Anyway, I don't want to go down this rabbit hole too far. It always ends up in the shitter. I just thought an unnecessary change and one that might potentially have an impact later on, assuming that the Fremen are closely modelled on the book version. As said, they will more than likely make them a more egalitarian society that what appeared in the novel, for better or worse.

As you say, ultimately we'll have to wait and see.

Curse These Metal Hands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061495#Comment_118061495

Seeing that 90 percent of the movie was spent in the desert, then 90 percent of the movie had an unimaginative and unoriginal score that's been done to death.

stateofflux

Never got around to reading the books but saw the movie last night.

I thought it was very good. Really drew me in a kind of sprawling Lawrence of Arabia way.

Captain Red Beard

A lot of whispering. I hate whispering in films.

Relikk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118062023#Comment_118062023

It was just bad overall. Most of his scores are the same. Littered with overbearing, out of place stabs and cliché bass decrescendos. I would have much preferred a more classical score all round rather than the mixture with the ethno-vocal type we got. There was a nice part at the beginning with the Imperials arriving on Caladan that gave me some hope that he wouldn't go full Zimmer on it. Ah well.

Slydice

I appear to have watched little feature videos for a film.. which I might otherwise kinda just skip past 🙂

These are decently made .. a little spoilery .. but most of all had me doing a big of a LOL at the end of each one.

This dude comes in at the end of each and is like "IN CINEMAS NOW, BOOK TICKETS!" as if they're try to use the voice 😁

Villeneuve, briefly, and other cast on influences of Women and the Bene Gesserit with some Fremen intro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aasc8qcpIBA

On Father and Son .. briefly and then followed by the feel of a teaser trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq7NQ-hhezY

Villeneuve, briefly, and some cast & crew on the making-of and practical effects:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhQK4QjEN-w

On Costumes which, to be fair, I thought had a lot of work put in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMapRodtz18

Tar.Aldarion

I saw this in the lighthouse screen 2 and I felt even that wasn't big and loud enough for me let alone people at home, might go back to see it on an imax screen, where has the best screen/sound?

johnny_ultimate

Another Villeneuve film that left me rather cold.

The best thing about it is the sheer majesty and weight of some of the art design, the space ships in particular. There's a real sense there are massive, hulking colossi in this world - some organic, some manmade. There's almost a sacredness to the ships (and a more literal sacredness to the sandworms), given they're such overwhelming presences in the world. There's a scene early on where even the characters simply walking down the off-ramp gives a sense of just how big and important space travel is in this world.

Such a shame the rest of the world feels hollow and unlived in. There's always a clinical coating to Villeneuve's that leaves me at a distance, and perhaps here more than ever. It's often handsome and even occasionally awe-worthy (see above), but there's no sense of genuine joy, sadness or really any kind of emotional weight here. It's like an academic, coldly brutalist take on epic storytelling, but with material that's fundamentally too full of characters, relationships and political intrigue to warrant that approach.

Lynch's film is an unholy mess narratively, and this new take benefits from actually having the space to clarify plot and character details (although it's hardly free of exposition - there's plenty of clunky world-building). What it misses from the previous adaptation is a sense of the weird and grotesque - the type of thing Lynch managed to bring even during a car-crash production, and I'm sure Jodorowsky would have brought in spades had ever had the chance to make his version. Villeneuve's visuals may be majestic and every so often haunting - but a lot of his direction is also utterly vanilla. He's done this trick before, arguably better than he does it here (Arrival's probably still the best film he has made). Add to that a particularly bland Zimmer score and there's a film that's crying out for more character and colour. That's not the same as saying it needs to be zany or lighthearted or anything like that - just something that feels a bit more... alien than what's on display here. Maybe that's just inevitably going to be part of the equation when readapting a half-century-old sci-fi vision - oft-copied, adapted and reimagined in the interim - for the modern era, mind you.

It's not a bad film - I do think for the first half of the film the pretty visuals carry it, and Rebecca Ferguson particularly is very well suited to the material. Zimmer's score may be uninspiring, but there's also some great sound design throughout. But during the final 30-45 minutes in particular I sort of lost interest as the characters tediously wander the desert, stumbling into boring setpieces and desperately searching for an actual climax that never comes. Some judgement must be reserved as this is clearly half a film, but I really hope part two (assuming it comes) has a bit more of a pep in its step than this does.

Dades

Really enjoyed this, as fan of the book. Looks absolutely amazing. Rebecca Ferguson was the standout for me. She is Lady Jessica.

I always thought Timothy Chalomet was a casting to attract a certain demographic, and I still think that. He's too effeminate, frankly, though he didn't take from the film.

However I'm done with Zimmer and his overbearing scores. Turn the f*cking volume down so we can hear something else other than your organ. The visuals are impressive enough, it shouldn't have to lean on the soundtrack to literally shout into your skull how dramatic everything is.

Pacing very slow at the end, which if you weren't on board with this being only Part I, would be odd.

All in all, really hoping for Part II. Just scored by Danny Elfman.

EltonJohn69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118064425#Comment_118064425

no elf man……get in the heavy hitters…. Get tangerine dream

Slydice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118062973#Comment_118062973

Hard to tell. I've watched a few reviews but one (Grace who covers a lot of Superhero material and has some industry contacts) discussed it. She said they hadn't filmed back to back so probably comes down to the Box Office / Streaming Viewers.

Saying that though, I checked the wiki (spoilers on the wiki page):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(2021_film)#Future

Just days prior to the film's release, Warner Bros. CEO Ann Sarnoff stated, "Will we have a sequel to Dune? If you watch the movie you see how it ends. I think you pretty much know the answer to that."

At this point. I think it will yeah. The film has been recieved pretty well so far with the wiki showing currently $147m taken I'm guessing from the non-EU non-US markets so far. Says the budget was $165. Marketing was probably a chunk more but I'd say EU and US money will bring it well into profit.

RT currently at 83% (from 316) critics, 92% (from 1000+) audience:

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/dune_2021

Above 8 across the board on IMDB also a good sign:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1160419/ratings/

santana75

Saw this earlier and didn't really have a Barneys what was going on but I absolutely loved it. Will go again during the week to see if I can figure out who's who and what exactly is going on.