Are the left being brainwashed by Islam?? - Mod warning in OP

alastair

donaghs wrote: »

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I think what the left have a problem with is any hint of discrimination and generalisations based on religion. And rightly so. Similar to that line that is often (wrongly?) attributed to Voltaire that goes 'I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It'.
Thats how some 'left' may defend someone or something they don't necessarily agree with. Because they feel that someone is being discriminated against. We're nice people like that

.

If that was the case, wouldn't you defend the right of ALL people to express their opinions? Even someone as disagreeable and who you would "disapprove of" like Donald Trump?

Fringe idiocy, found in every ideology, aside, there's not really anyone saying that Trump shouldn't be allowed hold or express disagreeable opinions as an individual. It's the active imposition of those disagreeable opinions over the wishes of a majority, or where that imposition does more harm than good, is the issue. Highlighting idiotic or bigoted views is pefectly reasonable. Suggesting that idiocy or bigotry is a recipe for removal from society is quite a different thing.

Help!!!!

constance tench wrote: »

'When somebody tells you who they are, believe them!'

https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/823256345893883905

As has been posted on this thread a few times, there is no moderate Muslims. They are proud to say they do not want to sit with women & stoning should be allowed

alastair

Help!!!! wrote: »

As has been posted on this thread a few times, there is no moderate Muslims. They are proud to say they do not want to sit with women & stoning should be allowed

A notion disproved by awkward reality.

Help!!!!

alastair wrote: »

A notion disproved by awkward reality.

Sorry dont understand what you mean

alastair

Help!!!! wrote: »

Sorry dont understand what you mean

Your claim is undermined by it's obviously being incorrect.

constance tench

alastair wrote: »

Your claim is undermined by it's obviously being incorrect.

Tell us how it's obviously incorrect?

Help!!!!

alastair wrote: »

Your claim is undermined by it's obviously being incorrect.

How so??

FA Hayek

Peregrinus wrote: »

But it makes complete sense among the intelligent and the rational.

Ah, the obvious retort of the enlightened progressives. If you anyway support these actions, then by rational you are not intelligent and not rational.

Japan is a country that grants zero refugee visas to Muslims or allows any form of offical Islamic worship in their country. I guess they must un unintelligent and irrational.

wes

FA Hayek wrote: »

Ah, the obvious retort of the enlightened progressives. If you anyway support these actions, then by rational you are not intelligent and not rational.

Well, a bit rich, considering that you post easily disproven lies.

FA Hayek wrote: »

Japan is a country that grants zero refugee visas to Muslims or allows any form of offical Islamic worship in their country. I guess they must un unintelligent and irrational.

There are mosques in Japan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_Japan


Japan has taken in refugees:
One of the first Syrians granted refugee status in Japan discusses the hardships of status limbo


Sure, they aren't taken in many, but they have never take in many, Syrian or otherwise.

BTW, Japan isn't welcoming of foreigners in general. Sure, even people of Japanese descent, who came from Brazil didn't have a warm welcome:

Japan to Immigrants: Thanks, But You Can Go Home Now


When union leader Francisco Freitas has something to say, Japan's Brazilian community listens. The 49-year old director of the Japan Metal and Information Machinery Workers called up the Brazilian Embassy in Tokyo April 14, fuming over a form being passed out at employment offices in Hamamatsu City, southwest of Tokyo. Double-sided and printed on large sheets of paper, the form enables unemployed workers of Japanese descent — and their family members — to secure government money for tickets home. It sounded like a good deal to the Brazilians for whom it was intended. The fine print in Portuguese, however, revealed a catch that soured the deal: it's a one-way ticket with an agreement not to return.

Click here for rest of the story

That is how people of Japanese descent are being treated.

The lie that they target Muslims is being propogated by the usual suspects. Its easily disproven with with a quick google.

The question that needs to be asked, is why are people propogating easily disproven lies?

Wanderer78

FA Hayek wrote:

Japan is a country that grants zero refugee visas to Muslims or allows any form of offical Islamic worship in their country. I guess they must un unintelligent and irrational.

I'm sure Japan has a nation of intelligent irrational people, just like every other country on the planet

MOH

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Yes but the Jihadists want to create a Caliphate. A religious theocracy that would execute all infidels. Secular dictatorships are not. Take for example China a secular dictatorship it is not a threat to the globe nor is its rule on the scale of what ISIS is looking for. Other examples would include Russia, Syria, South Africa, Turkey and Myanmar all states that have autocratic rulers yet have no interest is starting a world war. The jihadists don't have a state yet but are enthusiastic for their upcoming holy war.

And there's plenty of right wing Christian nutjobs who'd love to go back to a fairly recent time when people were persecuted for sexual orientation, etc.
But the thread question is are the left being brainwashed by Islam. A religion of over 1.5 billion people. Not are the left being brainwashed by the extremist minority you're talking about.

Help!!!! wrote: »

As has been posted on this thread a few times, there is no moderate Muslims. They are proud to say they do not want to sit with women & stoning should be allowed

Posting utter drivel a few times doesn't make it through.

There's definitely brainwashing going on, but it's not "by Islam"

Help!!!!

MOH wrote: »

Posting utter drivel a few times doesn't make it through.

There's definitely brainwashing going on, but it's not "by Islam"

Did you not watch that link?? It is my personal experience that there are no moderate Muslims. Have you lived anywhere where there are a large number of Muslims? not just a couple down your local curry house

constance tench

alastair wrote: »

A notion disproved by awkward reality.

Here's the awkward reality Alastair.

https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/823256345893883905

Nody

constance tench wrote: »

Here's the awkward reality Alastair.

https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/823256345893883905

No here's the ankward reality; I've worked with Pakistan colleagues and trust me they are very devout believers as shown when I worked with them for a year inc. Ramadan time period. However they had no issues with sitting next to women, shaking hands with women or in fact interact like any normal person around women and to add insult to injury these were Indian women at that.

Your extremist examples are just that, fringe examples where as the reality is no where near that. Or should we take the white male Canadian terrorist killing Muslims and supporting Trump as the proof that all white males supporting Trump are terrorists as well? You can't have it both ways after all.

constance tench

Nody wrote: »

No here's the ankward reality; I've worked with Pakistan colleagues and trust me they are very devout believers as shown when I worked with them for a year inc. Ramadan time period. However they had no issues with sitting next to women, shaking hands with women or in fact interact like any normal person around women and to add insult to injury these were Indian women at that.

Your extremist examples are just that, fringe examples where as the reality is no where near that. Or should we take the white male Canadian terrorist killing Muslims and supporting Trump as the proof that all white males supporting Trump are terrorists as well? You can't have it both ways after all.

Did you note that none of them in that mosque consider themselves extremists?

Help!!!!

Nody wrote: »

No here's the ankward reality; I've worked with Pakistan colleagues and trust me they are very devout believers as shown when I worked with them for a year inc. Ramadan time period. However they had no issues with sitting next to women, shaking hands with women or in fact interact like any normal person around women and to add insult to injury these were Indian women at that.

Your extremist examples are just that, fringe examples where as the reality is no where near that. Or should we take the white male Canadian terrorist killing Muslims and supporting Trump as the proof that all white males supporting Trump are terrorists as well? You can't have it both ways after all.

No the reality is that in areas where Muslims are the majority they act in a totally different way than a couple of Pakistani work colleagues in Ireland.

Nody

Help!!!! wrote: »

No the reality is that in areas where Muslims are the majority they act in a totally different way than a couple of Pakistani work colleagues in Ireland.

Since it was out of Saudi Arabia I'd say they where quite comfortable in majority locally and from tradition.

To constance tench, fringes never see themselves as extremist. Take the Norweigan wannabie nazi who killed 100 odd social democrat youths; he did not think he was extremist either but simply doing his duty as a normal citizen.

wes

constance tench wrote: »

Did you note that none of them in that mosque consider themselves extremists?

The KKK wouldn't consider themselves extermists either. No one thinks there the bad guy. What exactly do you think that proves?

alastair

FA Hayek wrote: »

Japan is a country that grants zero refugee visas to Muslims or allows any form of offical Islamic worship in their country. I guess they must un unintelligent and irrational.

Again, a notion at odds with the facts.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/11/japan-newest-largest-mosque-opens-doors-151125132433610.html

Japan grants very few refugee applications from any source or state, but they definitely do grant refugee visas to Muslims along with other applicants. In 2015, Japan accepted 27 refugees out of 7,500 applications from 69 countries - including Muslims.

FA Hayek

The left see the world in black and white. They see it as filled with oppressors and the oppressed. This is an updated version of Marxist view of the world of class, the workers versus the capitalists.

The west are the oppressors, especially the USA. Therefore anyone who is in conflict with the USA are the oppressed, namely Islam. It also helps of course that they are non-white as we have the narrative that white people are the oppressors and the oppressed are non-white. It is why the term white privileged is given such gravitas.

This has been going on for decades, in the west in the 50's and 60's we had the usual idiotic lefties spouting this nonsense, while Soviet tanks and soldiers were rolling through the streets of eastern Europe in places like Budapest.

Of course this outlook is stupid and deals with absolutes, but why else do self avowed feminists side with Islamists?

Wanderer78

FA Hayek wrote:

The left see the world in black and white. They see it as filled with oppressors and the oppressed. This is an updated version of Marxist view of the world of class, the workers versus the capitalists.

You could argue that some of the right also have a black or white view to on certain matters.

alastair

Help!!!! wrote: »

Did you not watch that link?? It is my personal experience that there are no moderate Muslims. Have you lived anywhere where there are a large number of Muslims? not just a couple down your local curry house

Your personal experience really means very little, try not to project your own blinkered bias onto a broader canvas. The facts don't support your personal anecdotes.

constance tench

Nody wrote: »

Since it was out of Saudi Arabia I'd say they where quite comfortable in majority locally and from tradition.

To constance tench, fringes never see themselves as extremist. Take the Norweigan wannabie nazi who killed 100 odd social democrat youths; he did not think he was extremist either but simply doing his duty as a normal citizen.

Why then did you mention Pakistani work colleagues rather than the society you were immersed in?

Help!!!!

Nody wrote: »

Since it was out of Saudi Arabia I'd say they where quite comfortable in majority locally and from tradition.

To constance tench, fringes never see themselves as extremist. Take the Norweigan wannabie nazi who killed 100 odd social democrat youths; he did not think he was extremist either but simply doing his duty as a normal citizen.

As with anything there is good & bad, through my own experience I have seen how they treat women & worse still young school girls on public transport. I have had conversations where they have spoken about white women in not so nice a way. I am not going by what the media says or what I've been told I am just saying what I have seen

Nody

FA Hayek wrote: »

The left see the world in black and white. They see it as filled with oppressors and the oppressed. This is an updated version of Marxist view of the world of class, the workers versus the capitalists.

And in the 50s the right were shouting themselves hoarse shouting communist at everyone who disagreed with them; before that it was that African slaves and descendants did not have the capacity to vote as they were sub humans. Now it's about how if LGBT people were allowed to marry it would destroy marriages but here's the fact you'll realize one day; no matter how much you keep resisting that the world and society evolve and changes it will continue to evolve and nothing you do will stop that.

wes

FA Hayek wrote: »

The left see the world in black and white.

The left aren't the ones making stuff up about Japan, last I checked.....

Widdershins

Are images allowed in this thread?

Help!!!!

alastair wrote: »

Your personal experience really means very little, try not to project your own blinkered bias onto a broader canvas. The facts don't support your personal anecdotes.

Really so I should just go by what you & the media tell me & not by my own experience of what I've seen & heard?? Baaa Baaa Baaa:rolleyes:

Chips Lovell

FA Hayek wrote: »

The left see the world in black and white. They see it as filled with oppressors and the oppressed. This is an updated version of Marxist view of the world of class, the workers versus the capitalists.

The west are the oppressors, especially the USA. Therefore anyone who is in conflict with the USA are the oppressed, namely Islam. It also helps of course that they are non-white as we have the narrative that white people are the oppressors and the oppressed are non-white. It is why the term white privileged is given such gravitas.

This has been going on for decades, in the west in the 50's and 60's we had the usual idiotic lefties spouting this nonsense, while Soviet tanks and soldiers were rolling through the streets of eastern Europe in places like Budapest.

Of course this outlook is stupid and deals with absolutes, but why else do self avowed feminists side with Islamists?

Criticises people for seeing the world in black and white. Proceeds to paint a black and white strawman.

Help!!!!

Widdershins wrote: »

Are images allowed in this thread?

Yeah dont see why not