Are the left being brainwashed by Islam?? - Mod warning in OP

Help!!!! wrote: »

If you read the posts you will see we were talking about the west not just Ireland
Well we dont know if its controlled just yet, will you be happy if the next group are grown men with beards instead of women & children that we were told we were going to get

Is it the beards you have a problem with? You've mentioned it twice now and it's starting to worry me.

What is it we should worry about beards?

Just to make bit light of it amongst all this serious talk.

I find beards very worrying. Horrible fashion trend. Every second fella under 30 seems to have one these days.

Help!!!! wrote: »

No nothing to do with beards just the fact that some of the " refugees " think the west are so stupid that they can pretend that that are children or that they are from Syria when they are obviously African

But is that really endemic, or is it something that has grown from the internet from people with their own agendas. I've not really seen evidence of this. I'm sure it happens but I don't its widespread as people want you to believe.

Things like this remind of that story that went around a few years ago. Of the African woman getting a taxi. She couldn't fit the buggie in the taxi so she left it on the side of the road and said she will just get another free one off the government. It *may* have happened but the way the story spread around Ireland everyone and their Mother had witnessed the event. When you really think about it the story didn't even make sense. Even if she were to get another free one she would have to wait at least a day...probably even over a week before getting another one. Which isn't practical if you have a small child i'm guessing.

Help!!!! wrote: »

Well the first quota that the UK got was shown on the news, all grown men, uproar from the public, now theres boardings up where they get off the bus so no one can see who's getting off.
It happens more than some people would like you to know

People decided they were grown men based on their appearance. They were photographed by tabloid newspapers despite the law requiring consent for minors to be photographed.

So now they cover them up because they are still being photographed.

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I think what the left have a problem with is any hint of discrimination and generalisations based on religion. And rightly so. Similar to that line that is often (wrongly?) attributed to Voltaire that goes 'I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It'.
Thats how some 'left' may defend someone or something they don't necessarily agree with. Because they feel that someone is being discriminated against. We're nice people like that.

If that was the case, wouldn't you defend the right of ALL people to express their opinions? Even someone as disagreeable and who you would "disapprove of" like Donald Trump?

You should look at Voltaire's views on religion, and his play "Mahomet". Essentially about how people use religious fanaticism to manipulate others for their own ends.

It angered Catholics who saw it as an slyly indirect criticism of their religion, which it partly was. But even then, Voltaire survived any controversy over it. Enlightenment values were strong enough to protect him. Whereas today, don't expect to see someone putting this on in an Irish or UK theatre (the French did a few years ago by may not repeat that again) as many close-minded members of one particular religious sect would not allow this to go ahead.

WoolyJumper wrote: »

I would consider my self socially left. I'm also gay and an Atheist. From my point of view I don't agree with much of Islam, same with Christianity and Judaism. In fact I would say I strongly dislike Islam as a faith. I would be completely opposed to Sharia and would not like to see laws being built around any particular faith, including Islam. I am also completely opposed to setting up faith based schools. I would personally prefer to see all kids educated together, learning about each others faiths.

In saying that, while I dislike the religion I have no problems with Muslims themselves. I find myself coming to the defence of Muslims a lot. Mainly because as a group I find they are often unfairly judged, stereotyped and sometimes even ostracised. It's also my belief that these things only work to create more extremism. I am also aware that the actions of many western countries have lead to the development of many of the extremist groups that most average muslims get lumped in with.

I'm not pretending like there isn't a problem of extremism in Islam or that the average muslim views are more extreme than the average christian, however I don't think the way "the right" want to deal with the problem will resolve anything. In fact I think it will make things worse. Demonising a group will only work to create more extremism.

Basically what I'm saying is there is a difference between supporting Muslims and supporting Islam. I would guess that most on the left would share my line of thinking where they support muslims while disliking the religion itself. I would feel the same about Christianity if I felt they were persecuted (in the West) however generally they are not.

But how can you support people who support an ideology that at it's best criminalizes your'e sexual orientation and at worse punishes this crime with public floggings and execution.

As i said previous , the only Muslims i have ever found to be reasonable rational people are ex-Muslims or those looking for a way out. The guys i know in the UK there great to go watch a football match with but the way they talk about women , white girls in particular is disturbing to be honest goes far beyond the usual misogyny you get from a blokey chat at the football, i stopped meeting up with them after some comments they made around the Rochdale abuse case in the UK.

Would you equaly defend devout catholics who ofen take a bit of ridcule or or challenged on the actions of their church , an iona institute support or one of their ilk ? In my experience Muslims dont want to come to the west and pratice wester values unless they have left or are trying to leave their religion , they want halal meat , they want faith based schools , they want time off work etc.. to pray , they dont want to pay interest on loans a friend of mine works in a bank he has revived some level of abuse from Muslims over this issue, they don't want to deal with women in a work environment, we had muslim guys in college refuse to work with girls , we have had Muslim customers refuse to speak with female call agents in our call center. This is far beyond what even the most devout of Catholics look for.

I fully agree with you i would never jump to judge people based on the color of their skin or where they are from , i met a really nice girl from Saudi last year in college who was afraid to return to her country because of the oppression and violence twords women there , she has since claimed asylum here a number of us in the class helped her do this. But to be honest if someone told me they were a devout Muslim or expressed Islamic views in a conversation that would be me pretty much done with them.

I see sense in Trumps ban in that it is not permanent and it will allow time for tougher screening of people coming from those countries, Germany and France took the opposite approach they have ended up with an increased risk of terrorism and crime as well as massive unemployment and poverty among the migrants who have arrived, many of whom are not refugees.