Are the left being brainwashed by Islam?? - Mod warning in OP

Help!!!! · 31-01-2017 09:43AM #1

As the title says are the left being brainwashed by Islam??
One of the organizer's of the women's march - Linda Sarsour - is pro sharia law but she tweets about how credit cards & loans would be interest free under sharia law & not that women would be second class citizens again.
You then have the women's march in Berlin where you have a group of women holding signs & one of them is singing " Allahu Akbar " on a megaphone the video moves to another girl in the crowd with tears in her eyes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWX1SKncyOA

Trump has never once said he is against immigrants or refugees but that doesn't stop the protesters from writing it on their signs.
It seems to be if you say anything against the left they shout, call racist & get violent, kinda like what you would see in less democratic countries

There have been several posts in this thread which are below the forum standard. It will be assumed from now on that anyone posting here will have read the charter. Posts in breach of the charter may face mod action.

Phoebas · 31-01-2017 09:51AM

Help!!!! wrote: »

In 2011 Obama banned Iraqi's refugees from entering the US...

Can you provide a link to an official source for this?
I've looked at the State Department numbers for Iraqi refugees being admitted to the US for the last 10 years and the official numbers contradict that claim (which is widespread now but mostly on right wing blogs).
The numbers show c. 10,000 Iraqi refugees being admitted to the US in 2011 and at least 400 Iraqi refugees being admitted every month in the last 10 years.

Wanderer78 · 31-01-2017 09:52AM

Help!!!! wrote:

As the title says are the left being brainwashed by Islam?? One of the organizer's of the women's march - Linda Sarsour - is pro sharia law but she tweets about how credit cards & loans would be interest free under sharia law & not that women would be second class citizens again. You then have the women's march in Berlin where you have a group of women holding signs & one of them is singing " Allahu Akbar " on a megaphone the video moves to another girl in the crowd with tears in her eyes.

Jebus, why don't these people look into less contentious things such as public banking!

smokingman · 31-01-2017 09:52AM

I would say it's the far right that are being brainwashed by Islamic extremists to be honest. Their minds are weak anyway but the likes of ISIS probably love and feed them into thinking they're a huge force in the world when in fact they're not.

Wanderer78 · 31-01-2017 09:54AM

smokingman wrote:

I would say it's the far right that are being brainwashed by Islamic extremists to be honest. Their minds are weak anyway but the likes of ISIS probably love and feed them into thinking they're a huge force in the world when in fact they're not.

Weak, I doubt that! Never underestimate the right

Help!!!! · 31-01-2017 10:02AM

Phoebas wrote: »

Can you provide a link to an official source for this?
I've looked at the State Department numbers for Iraqi refugees being admitted to the US for the last 10 years and the official numbers contradict that claim (which is widespread now but mostly on right wing blogs).
The numbers show c. 10,000 Iraqi refugees being admitted to the US in 2011 and at least 400 Iraqi refugees being admitted every month in the last 10 years.

Sorry I left out banned for 6 months

Walter H Price · 31-01-2017 10:06AM

I don't know is brainwashed the right term but certainly its odd the relationship between the those who are socially left leaning and Islam. You would imagine they would have a similar adversarial relationship with devout Muslims as the have with devout Christians , at the end of the day both religions are very similar in their treatment of women as second class , gays , atheists etc... they have similar views on abortion which again those who are socially more liberal strongly disagree with.

sharia law goes much further even then cannon law in terms of punishments , beheadings , public floggings , rape victims being treated as criminals , stoning's and other medevil punishments for crimes such as adulatory , child marraiges etc.... Sharia Law is an absolute a front to the liberal western values thees people hold yet they are strong to defend Islam , Muslims and to an extent sharia even, its bizar.

I'm an athiest would describe myself as socialy right leaning in terms of welfare and immigration but more liberterian in my outlook in relation to abortion , gay rights , legalization of drugs etc... which i fully support. I would have a similar reaction to a devout muslim as i would to a devout jew or catholic in that i would strongly disagree with their beliefs and hold firm that their beliefs should be placed on a pedastal free from challenge or criticism. What facinates me with the socialy left is that they seem to be able to differentiate between the two and show respect for Islam but challenge and ridicule Catholicism , i have no idea why this is, i have been call Islamophobic many times for expressing my disgust at sharia law or making a joke about the Muslim faith but never Christianophobic (if such a term even exists) for expressing similar views towards the catholic church its teachings and position on certain social issues.

sbsquarepants · 31-01-2017 10:07AM

Help!!!! wrote: »

As the title says are the left being brainwashed by Islam??
One of the organizer's of the women's march - Linda Sarsour - is pro sharia law but she tweets about how credit cards & loans would be interest free under sharia law & not that women would be second class citizens again.
You then have the women's march in Berlin where you have a group of women holding signs & one of them is singing " Allahu Akbar " on a megaphone the video moves to another girl in the crowd with tears in her eyes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWX1SKncyOA

I don't know about brainwashing - fact is you get clowns in all walks of life. There are ultra religious women as well as men, there are no doubt plenty of women who fully support sharia law. People are nuts sometimes!

I find it hard to understand how any woman could support it (but then again I find hard to understand anything that any woman does:D) In fact I find it hard to understand how any person could support it, but support it they do.

There is also a cohort of people, professional protestors, or activists for want of a better phrase, who are just against stuff - sometimes it doesn't even matter what, they've a burning need to be offended by something, anything, tell the world about it and demand change. As I said some people are just nuts!

You can't put too much stock in a slogan you seen on a placard.

Nody · 31-01-2017 10:07AM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Sorry I left out banned for 6 months

There was no, none, nada, ban on Iraq refugees under Obama. What happened was that additional controls which slowed down the number of refugees from 15k to 6k for that year and the year after it was up to 16k again. Every single month however they where allowed in.

So let me repeat, Obama did NOT ban anyone from entering.

Second part the list of countries Trump used and blames Obama for. What Obama did was to add additional controls on people coming from those countries as potential risk but did not ban them either.

LeinsterDub · 31-01-2017 10:09AM

Fringe lunatics on both the left and the right aren't representative on either group.

Phoebas · 31-01-2017 10:10AM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Sorry I left out banned for 6 months

Can you provide an official link for that?
As I said, the official State Department numbers show at least 400 Iraqi refugees being granted entry to the US every month in the last 10 years.

Here's a link to the numbers:
https://2009-2017.state.gov/j/prm/releases/statistics/184843.htm

Peregrinus · 31-01-2017 10:11AM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Sorry I left out banned for 6 months

No, you included it. You said in post #1 that "in 2011 Obama banned Iraqi's refugees from entering the US for 6 months".

The claim was made by Trump himself when announcing his own measure. But in fact the claim is not true. It's an "alternative fact", as the kids say these days. The reason there were no protests when Obama enacted such a ban in 2011 is because he never enacted such a ban.

Reati · 31-01-2017 10:13AM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Fringe lunatics on both the left and the right aren't representative on either group.

Unless you're trying to discredit the other side you disagree with then it's all about the acts of the lunatics and a one brush stroke for them all.

Help!!!! · 31-01-2017 10:13AM

Phoebas wrote: »

Can you provide an official link for that?
As I said, the official State Department numbers show at least 400 Iraqi refugees being granted entry to the US every month in the last 10 years.

It wasnt an outright ban but neither is what Trumps doing
http://heavy.com/news/2017/01/barack-obama-ban-refugees-did-iraq-iraqi-muslim-trump-jimmy-carter-iran-iranian-immigration/

Peregrinus · 31-01-2017 10:23AM

Help!!!! wrote: »

It wasnt an outright ban but neither is what Trumps doing
http://heavy.com/news/2017/01/barack-obama-ban-refugees-did-iraq-iraqi-muslim-trump-jimmy-carter-iran-iranian-immigration/

The Obama action wasn't a ban at all, and had nothing to do with visas. It was a review of the process for assessing applications for refugee status. The review led to delays in processing, so it took longer for people to get decisions on their applications than would otherwise have been the case but, as already pointed out, applications continued to be processed and the admission of refugees never ceased at any point. This is in no sense comparable to what Trump has done, which is an entry ban, and not one confined to refugees.

Phoebas · 31-01-2017 10:26AM

Help!!!! wrote: »

It wasnt an outright ban but neither is what Trumps doing
http://heavy.com/news/2017/01/barack-obama-ban-refugees-did-iraq-iraqi-muslim-trump-jimmy-carter-iran-iranian-immigration/

So this is a load of nonsense then; there was no Obama ban at all. There were still thousands of Iraqi refugees being granted entry to the US throughout 2011.

Help!!!! wrote:

In 2011 Obama banned Iraqi's refugees from entering the US...

Why do people have to be so dishonest in their posting - it just completely undermines the points you are trying to make.

Peregrinus · 31-01-2017 10:32AM

Phoebas wrote: »

Why do people have to be so dishonest in their posting - it just completely undermines the points you are trying to make.

In fairness, he's not dishonest - just gullible. He assumes that if the President of the United States says it, it must be more or less true.

He'll learn, I dare say.

Help!!!! · 31-01-2017 10:33AM

Phoebas wrote: »

So this is a load of nonsense then; there was no Obama ban at all. There were still thousands of Iraqi refugees being granted entry to the US throughout 2011.

Why do people have to be so dishonest in their posting - it just completely undermines the points you are trying to make.

Sorry I was not intentionally being dishonest, it was something that I was told which I didnt fully look into before posting

Walter H Price · 31-01-2017 10:36AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

The Obama action wasn't a ban at all, and had nothing to do with visas. It was a review of the process for assessing applications for refugee status. The review led to delays in processing, so it took longer for people to get decisions on their applications than would otherwise have been the case but, as already pointed out, applications continued to be processed and the admission of refugees never ceased at any point. This is in no sense comparable to what Trump has done, which is an entry ban, and not one confined to refugees.

if it was a ban on immigration of people with hard christian right wing ideology would the the liberals still protest , would they be shouting Jesus saves at pro abortion women marches ? would they welcome their views on gay rights (i.e there should be none) what is the actual difference with Islam ? i accept all devout Muslims are not terrorists 100% , but all devout Muslims do subscribe to a value and belief system that is an absolute afront to western secular , liberal values arguably even more so then devout Catholics or Jews, so why the support ? Why the Islamophobic branding of anyone who disagrees ? How can Islam be called a Religion of peace when its Prophet was a war mongering pedophile ? you don't have to look at the brutality of ISIS , look at actual Muslim states Saudi , Pakistan etc... look at the brutality and inequality in those society's and explain how anyone in anyway liberally minded can stand in defense of Islam

It makes literally 0 sense for Islamic immigration to have the support it does among the socially left

31-01-2017 10:38AM

For a more balanced view

Deeyah Khan:
What we don't know about Europe's Muslim kids
https://www.ted.com/talks/deeyah_khan_what_we_don_t_know_about_europe_s_muslim_kids

CMOTDibbler · 31-01-2017 10:39AM

Walter H Price wrote: »

if it was a ban on immigration of people with hard christian right wing ideology would the the liberals still protest , would they be shouting Jesus saves at pro abortion women marches ? would they welcome their views on gay rights (i.e there should be none) what is the actual difference with Islam ? i accept all devout Muslims are not terrorists 100% , but all devout Muslims do subscribe to a value and belief system that is an absolute afront to western secular , liberal values arguably even more so then devout Catholics or Jews, so why the support ? Why the Islamophobic branding of anyone who disagrees ? How can Islam be called a Religion of peace when its Prophet was a war mongering pedophile ? you don't have to look at the brutality of ISIS , look at actual Muslim states Saudi , Pakistan etc... look at the brutality and inequality in those society's and explain how anyone in anyway liberally minded can stand in defense of Islam

It makes literally 0 sense for Islamic immigration to have the support it does among the socially left

But it's not a ban on Muslims.

It's a ban on people who have passports from certain countries.

Peregrinus · 31-01-2017 10:43AM

Walter H Price wrote: »

It makes literally 0 sense for Islamic immigration to have the support it does among the socially left

But it makes complete sense among the intelligent and the rational.

The whole point about this tiresome "equality" notion that underpins western liberal values is that each of us has our own dignity, our own identity, our own characteristics, and we each have a similar claim to have those respected. So instead of making decisions about me based on generalised and bigoted characterisations of the majority religion of the country of which I am a citizen, you should be making decisions about me based on my characteristics. So banning me from entry because you have some good reason to think that I support political violence is fine; banning me from entry because I have Iraqi citizenship and most Iraqis are Muslims and you think that Muslims are more likely to support political violence than non-Muslims is not.

With this ban, Trump is pissing on the very values that he claims to defend. You may choose to label those who recognise this as "the socially left", but that doesn't really get around the damage that Trump is doing, and that you are ignoring.

Lux23 · 31-01-2017 10:46AM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

But it's not a ban on Muslims.

It's a ban on people who have passports from certain countries.

Hardly matters, this ban is a boon for ISIS and similar organisations. Its a foolish, deliberately divisive action by a man who is essentially trolling the world. What angers me most is people like Spicer and Conway defending it by saying its a measure to protect america. Why the hell isn't Saudi on the list then?

There was another twerp on a news show defending this EO saying that his background was Irish and that he would have accepted a travel ban on Irish people if the country had a problem with terrorism. How stupid can you be?

Help!!!! · 31-01-2017 10:48AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

But it makes complete sense among the intelligent and the rational.

The whole point about this tiresome "equality" notion that underpins western liberal values is that each of us has our own dignity, our own identity, our own characteristics, and we each have a similar claim to have those respected. So instead of making decisions about me based on generalised and bigoted characterisations of the majority religion of the country of which I am a citizen, you should be making decisions about me based on my characteristics. So banning me from entry because you have some good reason to think that I support political violence is fine; banning me from entry because I have Iraqi citizenship and most Iraqis are Muslims and you think that Muslims are more likely to support political violence than non-Muslims is not.

With this ban, Trump is pissing on the very values that he claims to defend. You may choose to label those who recognise this as "the socially left", but that doesn't really get around the damage that Trump is doing, and that you are ignoring.

If there were a thousand snakes trying to get in to your house & you were told 100 of them are poisonous, would you leave your door open & invite them all in or would you close your door & take your time & bring in the nonpoisonous ones?

Walter H Price · 31-01-2017 10:49AM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

But it's not a ban on Muslims.

It's a ban on people who have passports from certain countries.

My understanding from the title of this thread was that it would be a discussion on why western liberals show support for Islam , not another thread on the travel ban , perhaps i was mistaken.

It has been determined there is strong anti american sentiment in all of the countries affected by the travel ban , it has already been identified by the previous administration with American citizens being advised not to travel to theses ares , in that light surely it makes sense to restrict travel into the states from these countries.

In addition ISIS have openly said they will send jihadis to the west disguised as refugees , this has already been proven to be happening and terrorist attacks have been carried out in Europe, we live in uncertain times i see Trumps restrictions as far more an appropriate solution for protecting the people who elected him then Merkel or Holland's open door policy's which have lead to crime and terrorism in their respective countries.

Phoebas · 31-01-2017 10:50AM

Help!!!! wrote: »

If there were a thousand snakes trying to get in to your house & you were told 100 of them are poisonous, would you leave your door open & invite them all in or would you close your door & take your time & bring in the nonpoisonous ones?

Comparing Muslims to snakes.
Classy.

Help!!!! · 31-01-2017 10:53AM

Phoebas wrote: »

Comparing Muslims to snakes.
Classy.

Not comparing anyone to snakes, it was something I was told many years ago

NIMAN · 31-01-2017 10:54AM

I thought I heard a report on the radio the other day that Obama actually did some ground work which made it easier for trump to introduce this ban?

Anyone know if this is true? Apparently he had already banned certain nationalities or started the ball rolling to?

Nody · 31-01-2017 10:57AM

NIMAN wrote: »

I thought I heard a report on the radio the other day that Obama actually did some ground work which made it easier for trump to introduce this ban?

Anyone know if this is true? Apparently he had already banned certain nationalities or started the ball rolling to?

Obama had requested additional checks on people from these countries; nothing else. Trump in his endless wisdom of saying Obama does everything wrong then takes the exact same list an declares they are not allowed to travel into USA. No check with CIA, DoD etc. if the list needs to be amended or altered based on the current situation because Trump knows best; who needs experts when Trump heard someone tell a story about it so it has to be true.

jay1988 · 31-01-2017 11:00AM

Phoebas wrote: »

Comparing Muslims to snakes.
Classy.

Jesus that's some twisting of a post right there.

Have you been waiting long to be offended today?

Help!!!! · 31-01-2017 11:00AM

Nody wrote: »

Obama had requested additional checks on people from these countries; nothing else. Trump in his endless wisdom of saying Obama does everything wrong then takes the exact same list an declares they are not allowed to travel into USA. No check with CIA, DoD etc. if the list needs to be amended or altered based on the current situation because Trump knows best; who needs experts when Trump heard someone tell a story about it so it has to be true.

In fairness it was part of his election campaign so maybe he should be applauded for actually doing the things that got him voted in. Anyway can we leave the travel ban to other threads & get back to the title of the thread

Are the left being brainwashed by Islam?? - Mod warning in OP

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