Cork - Light Rail [route options idenfication and initial design underway]

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123357230#Comment_123357230

Don't they know their house values would appreciate significantly if the Luas was built?

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123356183#Comment_123356183

I think that route is utterly crazy and they clearly have learnt nothing from the Luas in Dublin.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123356755#Comment_123356755

Things like buses stopped at bus stops blocking trams seem like a really poor outcome here

I've only looked at half the plans so far, but it looks like all but one bus stop is offline. As in the bus pulls off to the side of the tracks for the stop, so a tram can still pass while the bus is stopped. A pretty good solution.

I'd note that in many mainland European cities, it is normal for trams and buses to share tracks like this. It is a pretty well proven setup. Cork isn't that big, I don't expect this to have Dublin Luas levels of frequency, the odd bus mixed in should be fine.

BTW worth noting that this also looks to be a significant upgrade to the bus stops along the route too, which is an added bonus.

bk

BTW The trams look to be 40m long, at least based on the lengths of the platforms.

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123357258#Comment_123357258

Do you honestly think they care? It'll be a high speed rail line through the heard of a quiet suburb! They'll be dumping all kinds of pond scum into their beautiful neighbourhood, it'll contaminate everyone with 5G and turn the neighbourhood dogs gay! It's a disgrace, Joe!

Seriously, these people see any type of public transport as only slightly less nauseating than a venereal disease. Sure, anyone who's made something of themselves drives a car, don't they? And that's about all the thought they put into it.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123230140#Comment_123230140

100% agree with you. So shortsighted to not even link with the Rochestown Road and offer some kind of interchange there by Hartys Quay - even if ideally I think there should be spur to Douglas

DylanQuestion

You have people in Blackrock/Ballintemple/Ballincollig/Wilton giving out it’s going through their area, while people in Douglas and on the northside are giving out it doesn’t go through their area. There is no pleasing people so don’t bother trying

TheSunIsShining

Getting from the Marina up to the Boreenmanna Road in a lightrail set up seems pretty ambitious. Will there be a need for some kind of pulley system?

namloc1980

I'd be thanking my lucky stars if this was going through my area. It makes the inevitable NIMBY objections baffling.

kub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123357568#Comment_123357568

This now is where it gets very interesting, Cork is a very hilly City and I am not sure of how practical some areas on the route is.

Anyway I will believe it's existence when I see it, so I am not holding out much hope of it ever happening.

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123357568#Comment_123357568

they said they’ll need to re-grade the hill

Mefistofelino

Not by a huge amount. The average grade on Maryville or Churchyard Lane is < 5% - I believe conventional trams will cope with up to 10%

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123357568#Comment_123357568

On the contrary, light rail excels on hills, much better then buses. Montreal has a light rail that goes up a 14% gradient in snow that buses can't handle at all. Electric motors tend to be excellent at this.

BagofWeed

I'd love to see this as planned go ahead but I fear it's too ambitious for a place like Cork. The anti everything brigade will put too many obstacles in it's way.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123356953#Comment_123356953

I just love that there will finally be a decent way to get from Kenk to PuC.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123357684#Comment_123357684

I'd have said it's not nearly ambitious enough. 2.3k passengers per hour capacity. A crowd of any half decent size down in Pairc Ui Chaoimh and it'll be like sardines with thousands left on the platform.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123357694#Comment_123357694

At the proposed 2,300 per hour capacity it's not going to cater for too many hoping to get on at Kent heading to a match. It'll already be jammers coming from the city centre.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123357715#Comment_123357715

Maybe the might do a match day shuttle ?

Hibernicis

The website is well done, in particular the narrative description of the route. It’s well written and is easily followed by the lay reader and should help get open minded people on board.

The route appears sensible, practical and joins a lot of dots. Aside from the inevitable tweaking and refinements it’s hard to see a better option for the first/only route.

I really like @DylanQuestion suggestion of extending the Eastern end to Rochestown Village/Harty’s Quay. It makes a huge amount of sense, even better if it could be supported by a park and ride.

It will be interesting to see the reaction from T.Shannon esq and his fellow bottom feeders on “Cork Corpo”. Will we get a rerun of the neutering of bus-connects or will he be silenced by his master’s desire to have this a a celebratory memorial tribute to the M.Martin (and son) political dynasty ?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123357705#Comment_123357705

The website says it will have surge capacity at Parc Ui Chaoimh for matches:

After crossing Monahan Road, the Luas corridor will pass to the south of the road, and at this location a Luas stop with a three-track configuration is proposed to serve the stadium and to facilitate possible service turnback towards the city centre at off-peak times.

The proposed three-track configuration will enable higher Luas capacity services when big events are taking place at Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

DylanQuestion

In my submission, I called for two extensions to the route:

• Rochestown via a new bridge from Jacob's Island over Lough Mahon
• Douglas via the Well Road (two way shared with cars, like Bishopstown Road)

These two small extensions would lead to a huge increase in a potential user base. There is sufficient room at the Well Road/Skehard Road junction to incorporate a stop where people can transfer from the Douglas line to the Rochestown-Ballincollig line. Or else every second tram goes to Douglas or Mahon, which is I think what they do in Dublin

KrisW1001

Looking at it in more detail, I think this plan is designed to build upon Cork BusConnects, which is why there are so many redesigned junctions, car diversions and redesigned bus-stops included.

For example, Wilton Roundabout is being replaced with a signalised cross junction not for capacity, but to make it easy for priority to be given to the bus lanes. Trams just extend this principle.

If this is the case, it's great news: previously, the light rail project and the bus project seemed completely unaware of each other's existence.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123357791#Comment_123357791

If you are having two end points (Douglas & Mahon) the junction should be a delta (aka triangular) junction, which would allow a Douglas to Mahon service.

Origionally the Luas junction at Belgard was going to be done this way but it got dropped and now a lot of the time City West is just a shuttle service from Belgard .

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123357719#Comment_123357719

The new bridge alone will make a big difference too, shaving 10 mins off the walk.

BagofWeed

Re: Wilton Rb. I don't buy that as being any improvement and the Luas is just an excuse for traffic planners to install those rotten things. They were itching for an excuse to remove the roundabout there for ages, Cork City Council even put the removal of the roundabout and the installation of lights as a planning condition for the redevelopment of Wilton Shopping centre.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123358098#Comment_123358098

The roundabout is broken, though. It allows Wilton Road (and onward to Dennehy’s Cross and Victoria Cross) to fill up with traffic that it cannot accommodate, and prevents traffic from Wilton Road getting onto Sarsfield Road or Bishopstown Road.

The only real options to improve things were a signalised roundabout or a cross junction. The cross juction is a better option, as it allows each flow to be properly controlled by using filter-lights. The only control you have on a s signalised roundabout is to fill up or drain the roundabout road itself, and so you need a big roundabout to act as a buffer: Wilton roundabout isn’t that big, so this wouldn’t have worked.

I was looking at the plan again, and the tram lines actually don’t touch the existing roundabout at all - they replace the bus slip-road that's there currently; the junction redesign isn’t strictly necessary to accommodate Luas, but having it will regulate car traffic all the way down to Victoria Cross, which will help a lot with Luas.

Meanwhile, I’m waiting for the outcry about removing a car lane each way on Bishopstown Road.

namloc1980

I wonder what the "save our right hand turns" campaign will complain about now.

cgcsb

The NTA could've saved themselves a headache and also announced a 'feasibility' study into a north-south line to shut people up. The NTA have little experience of Cork's moaning culture. You need to shut down any moaning early doors. Even as is you have people on social media moaning that the Ballincollig to Mahon Point line is pointless because it 'doesn't go through the city centre', attention spans are short and negativity is high.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123359044#Comment_123359044

Yeah, that one mystifies me. In what version of Cork is St Patrick’s Street not the centre? Not going down the South Mall allowed a stop on MacCurtain Street (a long-neglected part of the city that’s starting to see some life now) and the main train station. Both of those are worth far, far more than stopping on “de Mall”.

Some people were fixated on South Mall because there’s offices there, but it’s only about 5 minutes’ walk from the proposed Patrick Street stop to either end of South Mall, with about a dozen places to get a coffee on the way.

For those offices on Albert Quay, get off at either Kent or Centre Park Road: it’s the same 500 m either way.

namloc1980

I'm at a loss to understand why we're planning to be at/above capacity from the very start with such a low passenger per hour capacity at peak times. A high frequency decent bus service with dedicated bus lanes would achieve the same or more with more options to branch out at each end via a core corridor.