Property Market 2017

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

LirW

Due to the number of landlords selling up it feels like the lower end of the rental market is more tense than a year ago. Scary, scary.
I mean under the current climate even I as a make-it-work person would sell up if I'd have a property that I can turn over easily enough.

The Student

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No, I am a landlord who is just interested in the property sector. This is my pension so as you can appreciate I am particularly interested in how it goes and I want more properties built so the govt will allow me compete in the market without any interference!

Cuddlesworth

The Student wrote: »

I don't see this ending well at all. Developers will continue to develop at the top end of the market. The lower end will eventually be catered for but I suspect you will see a return to Anti Social blackspots (Tallaght, Ballymun etc).

I am from Tallaght so have seen same first hand.

This is actually a global problem. When both land and build costs get to a certain point, the only property that get built are in the luxury segments.

cnocbui

All those hoping to buy in Dublin, just thank your lucky stars the Chinese aren't buying up 25%+ of all available new builds, the way they are in Australia.

The Student

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

This is actually a global problem. When both land and build costs get to a certain point, the only property that get built are in the luxury segments.

Property is seen as a cashcow for the Govt. If you wanted to ease the housing crisis there are a number of measures that could be introduced which would help ease the problem.

Extend the rent a room scheme to landlords up to €12k. A tenant currently paying €1500 a month is automatically €500 a month better off and the landlord still receives the same income. This €500 could be used to save towards a deposit. This would encourage developers to build etc.

The various levies imposed by the State on new builds is just an arbitrary fig which bears no relevance on the service it is supposed to pay for. How is a street light in Foxrock 5 or 6 times more expensive than one in another area?

Cuddlesworth

The Student wrote: »

Extend the rent a room scheme to landlords up to €12k. A tenant currently paying €1500 a month is automatically €500 a month better off and the landlord still receives the same income. This €500 could be used to save towards a deposit. This would encourage developers to build etc.

Sorry, but the only thing that would happen is increased profit for landlords(in a heavily inflated market). If you gave breaks to tenants, you would see increased rents(as they would have more money to bargain with)

The Student

The Student wrote: »

...................

Extend the rent a room scheme to landlords up to €12k. A tenant currently paying €1500 a month is automatically €500 a month better off and the landlord still receives the same income. This €500 could be used to save towards a deposit. This would encourage developers to build etc. .............

You think that landlords will drop the rent if they don't have to pay tax on the first €12k?

The Student

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Sorry, but the only thing that would happen is increased profit for landlords(in a heavily inflated market). If you gave breaks to tenants, you would see increased rents(as they would have more money to bargain with)

No it wouldn't. The rent a room scheme sets limits (if you charge rent over the €12000 then you pay tax on all of it). This will put a limit on the increases in rent and give the tenant more disposable income.

Why would a landlord increase the rent over €12000 if he then becomes liable for tax on all of it. He would need to increase the rent to €24000 to still come away with €12000 (€24k * 50%).

__..__

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Sorry, but the only thing that would happen is increased profit for landlords(in a heavily inflated market). If you gave breaks to tenants, you would see increased rents(as they would have more money to bargain with)

I think the poster is saying The landlord is incentivised to keep their rent below 12k

__..__

LirW wrote: »

Due to the number of landlords selling up it feels like the lower end of the rental market is more tense than a year ago. Scary, scary.
I mean under the current climate even I as a make-it-work person would sell up if I'd have a property that I can turn over easily enough.

I've sold one. I think I'm going to sell the second too after seeing the budget.
And I have a third that I might renovated and go high end, but probably will sell it too. Basically long term renting is not a risk/reward situation I'm prepared to partake in.

__..__

__..__ wrote: »

............ Basically long term renting is not a risk/reward situation I'm prepared to partake in.

Property is a ludicrous investment option for folk borrowing to buy IMO, slightly less so if you have the ball of twine to "invest" but still unappealing IMO

Cuddlesworth

The Student wrote: »

No it wouldn't. The rent a room scheme sets limits (if you charge rent over the €12000 then you pay tax on all of it). This will put a limit on the increases in rent and give the tenant more disposable income.

Why would a landlord increase the rent over €12000 if he then becomes liable for tax on all of it. He would need to increase the rent to €24000 to still come away with €12000 (€24k * 50%).

Sure, 1200 a month for the property. 400 a month for parking. 100 a month for bins, etc. Tax law is just a bunch of loopholes, I would expect no different from this. And where would you like the reduced tax income to come from, when its not from landlords?

Galwayforliam

Anyone else noticing the property market in dublin calming down? I even see a few houses we're tracking falling in price and demand at new builds not as mad as it was earlier in year

Henbabani

just wrote this morning that there's 3,248
now it's 3,309.
in few hours.

Henbabani

Galwayforliam wrote: »

Anyone else noticing the property market in dublin calming down? I even see a few houses we're tracking falling in price and demand at new builds not as mad as it was earlier in year

agree, even apartments for rent are not "gone" within day or two.

The Student

Galwayforliam wrote: »

Anyone else noticing the property market in dublin calming down? I even see a few houses we're tracking falling in price and demand at new builds not as mad as it was earlier in year

Most likely due to the fact the banks have used up their exemptions and probably down to the time of year. Price probably lowered to create a bit of interest.

Aikens96

We are selling our house and were sale agreed after 6 weeks however the sale fell through at the very last minute which puts our purchase at risk. We want to do a quick sale so decided to drop the price. In my view our house was priced well in the 2nd hand market however we have decided that in order to move it quickly we need to adjust our price. This is not the market "calming" down but rather a personal decision which has already yielded the interest we need. Another house on our road adjusted their price down but are just about to go Sale Agreed getting the original price before adjusting???

Zenify

Galwayforliam wrote: »

Anyone else noticing the property market in dublin calming down? I even see a few houses we're tracking falling in price and demand at new builds not as mad as it was earlier in year

I got a phone call from the local estate agent to see if I was still interested in the area as she had not heard from me in a while. She called ME!!!!!!! OH how I'm looking forward to the tables turning...

Cuddlesworth

Galwayforliam wrote: »

Anyone else noticing the property market in dublin calming down? I even see a few houses we're tracking falling in price and demand at new builds not as mad as it was earlier in year

Depends on what you are looking at and where I guess. In the market we are looking at, we arrive in viewings to be told there is bid at x price. 2 weeks later I get calls from the agent telling me there is a bid in at x-10k and they are closing on Friday, so if I'm interested I need to get in there now. 2 weeks after, house is still there. But the house I'm in right now, detached bungalow, good modern stylishness finished, 2 bed, 2 bath in south Dublin had over 10 people bidding for it. That being said, another house in the estate has been for sale because the asking is what this house is selling for. And its in bad shape.

liam7831

Galwayforliam wrote:

Anyone else noticing the property market in dublin calming down? I even see a few houses we're tracking falling in price and demand at new builds not as mad as it was earlier in year

Wishful thinking me thinks

Thargor

liam7831 wrote: »

Wishful thinking me thinks

Yep, the deficit between whats being built and what needs to be built is in the thousands, and that piles up year after year, its a complete and utter scam, Noonan admitted that was the plan.

Galwayforliam

Zenify wrote: »

I got a phone call from the local estate agent to see if I was still interested in the area as she had not heard from me in a while. She called ME!!!!!!! OH how I'm looking forward to the tables turning...

WOW! I just got an email follow up twice as I didn't turn up but no call.

Compared to Bishops Gate about 5 months ago that wouldn't even take our details when enquiring and were annoyed at being inundated with calls about them! The pre-launch queue was insane and when all sold there were still hundreds at the official launch that weekend https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/queue-forms-overnight-for-dublin-properties-starting-at-410-000-1.3114265

And Clay Farm about 10-12 people in preview queue and still a few left in the end for phase 1 when hundreds more units to come.

Glenside very little appetite and not that far away from Clay Farm.

Second hands are finally dropping from the insane bidding wars earlier this year. For me, the more we looked the more we now appreciate value and lunacy and not buying for the sake of it. We will hopefully get something we're happy with in the next 6 months- 1 year.

You want a house that will hold the test of time and when markets fall the fundamentals of your property are solid - nice area, transport and no obvious issues that will weaken it's selling potential in future years that maybe it's as important now - substation, old dump etc etc.

It's a painful process...!

Galwayforliam

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Depends on what you are looking at and where I guess. In the market we are looking at, we arrive in viewings to be told there is bid at x price. 2 weeks later I get calls from the agent telling me there is a bid in at x-10k and they are closing on Friday, so if I'm interested I need to get in there now. 2 weeks after, house is still there. But the house I'm in right now, detached bungalow, good modern stylishness finished, 2 bed, 2 bath in south Dublin had over 10 people bidding for it. That being said, another house in the estate has been for sale because the asking is what this house is selling for. And its in bad shape.

That's why I hate getting involved in second hand houses- the bidding wars and are they genuine or not. Some have sold for under what we were told they had bids for and in other cases when sale agreed the greedy agents came chasing us saying if we were to offer €10k more they'd give us the home - sickening!

James 007

Galwayforliam wrote: »

That's why I hate getting involved in second hand houses- the bidding wars and are they genuine or not. Some have sold for under what we were told they had bids for and in other cases when sale agreed the greedy agents came chasing us saying if we were to offer €10k more they'd give us the home - sickening!

Yes typical estate agents, just like the poor couple that bought a 3 bed apartment for €380k, such a relief for that couple, whew they got on the ladder at last!!!!. Tell them you will be back when houses collapse, price is X, I will offer X/2, but I would be interested in two houses on the one street.

The_Conductor

James 007 wrote: »

Yes typical estate agents, just like the poor couple that bought a 3 bed apartment for €380k, such a relief for that couple, whew they got on the ladder at last!!!!. Tell them you will be back when houses collapse, price is X, I will offer X/2, but I would be interested in two houses on the one street.

The moment you buy a new property- three quarters of prospective buyers no longer have any interest whatsoever in your property.

Second hand prices- are moderating- however, the flipside of the coin, is new property prices- are being driven higher and higher (though the rates of increase appear to be getting smaller and smaller.

The HTB scheme- is underpinning demand in new properties- though this is a two edged sword- reflected by the fact that increasing numbers of first time buyers- are correctly seeing that it is simply driving demand in the new sector that developers are incapable of in some cases, or unwilling to in others, meet (reflected in some recent developments- such as Cairn in Adamstown- who are electing to dripfeed 6,000-8,000 units per annum onto the market- over the next 6 years- rather than undermine local demand with more than this.

The joker in the pack in all of this- is of course volume in the second hand market- while it has picked up- its still well below the levels that it would be prudent to try and do statistical analysis on. If/when volume gets going (which could very well be a few years down the road yet)- then we'll have a clearer picture.

At the moment- the rampant increases in new build prices- underpinned by the HTB scheme- is dragging the secondhand sector up by its ankles- all the while the number of non-PPR properties is being held up by the REITs and large institutional investors (one major Irish pension fund is actively deleveraging its portfolio of residential units though).

737max

rsynnott wrote: »

Airbnb would be another obvious target; really, at this point, just enforce the planning rules and that’ll free up a bit of property (and further increase the hotel room crisis, but compared to the housing crisis, really, who cares about that...)

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/appeals-board-rejects-427bedroom-hotel-near-airport-36222054.html

Hotels beside the Airport are bad!!! Who'd have thunk it?

As long as Hotels can't be built the existing Hotels will not compete on price and Airbnb wil soak up the demand while removing residential property from the supply for long term occupation.

Cuddlesworth

737max wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/appeals-board-rejects-427bedroom-hotel-near-airport-36222054.html

Hotels beside the Airport are bad!!! Who'd have thunk it?

As long as Hotels can't be built the existing Hotels will not compete on price and Airbnb wil soak up the demand while removing residential property from the supply for long term occupation.

However, the location of the hotel on a site zoned for high technology in the Fingal Development Plan proved crucial in the board refusing planning permission.

Site isn't zoned for a hotel.

737max

There is a hotel at the end of the road in the commercial park in which I work.
When you have got international businesses nearby they need accommodation for business travelloers.
In fact at the other campus a few KM away where there is a hotel already my company built their own hotel which only full time employees can use on business trips.

Henbabani

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/13300-new-homes-contribute-to-44pc-rise-in-newbuilds-36338922.html
not the number that Ireland need but better than nothing i guess, the wheels moving too slow.