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Killer Robots

  • 15-12-2016 2:23am
    #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,872 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Drones occupy battlefields today. Airborne. Strike targets. Automated warfare exists today. This technology said to be an expanding "continuum." AI weapons development replacing direct human involvement. Should limits be placed on such “lethal autonomous weapons?” Computer scientist Stewart Russell at University of California at Berkeley thinks so. But is it too late?

    Ask I-Robot? Terminator? Sci Fi leads the way?

    Ref: http://www.popsci.com/big-idea-killer-robots-are-coming


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Comments

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    From of all things a Chuck Norris film Code of Silence. It featured a Prowler Robot with machine guns , laser range finders and infra red night vision back in 1985. Product placement of a real murder machine.

    Promo here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfT96j-7Zjc
    Movie Kill-count (so NSFW) the first robot kill was with Chuck at the remote control, can't remember if the second ones were, but after that it was autonomous, it was kinda sickening watching it the first time because it wasn't a human doing the killing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9dqfCvKC1A

    These Prowlers existed before the first Terminator movie. But back then no one was buying them. We have entered the fourth decade of functional autonomous killer robots.


    more_accurate.png

    http://explainxkcd.com/652/
    We live in a world where there are actual fleets of robot assassins patrolling the skies. At some point there, we left the present and entered the future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Fathom wrote: »
    Should limits be placed on such “lethal autonomous weapons?”
    By who? America wouldn't give up it's advantage and Russia wouldn't want to be told they can't match the US on military might.

    At this stage a super intelligent AI taking over is probably the best case scenario for humanity. We keep putting our animal instincts and human emotions onto AI and we don't seem to be able to imagine past them being just extra human. It would have none of those hangups and there's no reason to think it will want to kill everything by default.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Archer Eager Viper


    ScumLord wrote: »
    At this stage a super intelligent AI taking over is probably the best case scenario for humanity. .

    i) Artificial Narrow Intelligence, has been around for a fair while
    ii) Assisted Artificial General Intelligence is the current, and 'aspired to' standard.

    iii) Artificial 'Super-intelligence', (most likely through some sort of H+ organic neural interfacing) is still some time away, perhaps 2050++.
    So of little use to us between now and then.

    One concern is the new breed of robotics that may be able to self-reproduce and even sustain themselves upon organic matter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    I'm not really too worried about robots until there's something independant to run them without human help.

    So much sci-fi gives the impression that we'll accidentally make robots that will just spontaneously become smart and hate us as a consequence. Not only do they become sentient but they become human sentient, as if that's the only state of consciousness that matters, or can exist.

    I don't really see an automated system just deciding to run amok. When our tech fails it doesn't fail in a coordinated way, it just stops working. At worst the AI will just make the same mistakes as people, like incorrectly identifying targets, it would probably just do it less than people. It won't get afraid that a child might have a bomb, it will just register a non combatant and leave it at that.

    Bottom line is machines are far from self sufficient. They need people in so many ways that any attempt to turn against the will of people will fail pretty rapidly.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,872 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Sending humans to Mars? Will flight inventory include weaponry? Armed robots? Spare humans. Save oxygen payload. Send only robots.

    (Insert Star Trek meme. To explore...)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Jurgen Klopp


    China and several others are already calling for a international treaty on the Geneva convention level to outlaw any that can operate without human control.

    So like drones being flown from what appears to be an Xbox remote from base a possible future terminator like soldier woukd need to also be controlled by a "pilot" of sorts.

    Apparently so there can be no washing of hands if one killed a civilian. I suppose in a nation would claim software error due to battle damage or some BS. Also that it means humans always remain in control.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    China and several others are already calling for a international treaty on the Geneva convention level to outlaw any that can operate without human control.

    So like drones being flown from what appears to be an Xbox remote from base a possible future terminator like soldier woukd need to also be controlled by a "pilot" of sorts.

    Apparently so there can be no washing of hands if one killed a civilian. I suppose in a nation would claim software error due to battle damage or some BS. Also that it means humans always remain in control.

    Jurgen, you have a matter of a Derby to be planning, get off Boards... :P


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,872 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    China and several others are already calling for a international treaty on the Geneva convention level to outlaw any that can operate without human control.
    Film I-Robot. Can robots murder? Current legal definitions?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,872 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    ScumLord wrote: »
    By who? America wouldn't give up it's advantage and Russia wouldn't want to be told they can't match the US on military might.
    Another Cold War (robot) arms race?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Fathom wrote: »
    Film I-Robot. Can robots murder? Current legal definitions?
    At the very least I consider it manslaughter.

    Once the AI goes live it's the same as arming a landmine.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,872 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Robots injure or kill. Workplace. "Accident" or what? Proving criminal law "intent" vs civil law damages? Can AI be held responsible? Human owner? Programmer? All the above? Interesting legal questions.

    Ref: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/06/16/upshot/100000002939565.mobile.html?abt=0002&abg=0&_r=1


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Fathom wrote: »
    Robots injure or kill. Workplace. "Accident" or what? Proving criminal law "intent" vs civil law damages? Can AI be held responsible? Human owner? Programmer? All the above? Interesting legal questions.

    Ref: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/06/16/upshot/100000002939565.mobile.html?abt=0002&abg=0&_r=1
    I don't thin AI was involved in any of those. Sounds like all those incidents could have been preventable with adequate safety switches or procedures or staying out of the well marked danger area.


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    I don't thin AI was involved in any of those. Sounds like all those incidents could have been preventable with adequate safety switches or procedures or staying out of the well marked danger area.

    Agree. Sci Fi Skynet may be in the distant future. If at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 31 ban resistant recalcitrant debutant


    A self driving car is a robot and it could kill someone.

    edit.
    I didn't realise the thread was so old.

    About the car, if a self driving car today did kill someone in an accident what information would be available about the crash?

    Are there black boxes mandated by law that self driving cars must have?

    There should be really, and the black box should contain information from the sensors, and information about what decisions were made by the car and why.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,872 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Experts call for ban on killer robots.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭EPAndlee


    Has I Robot,Terminator etc thought us nothing


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    EPAndlee wrote: »
    Has I Robot,Terminator etc thought us nothing
    Jules Verne's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea theme.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Fathom wrote: »
    Experts call for ban on killer robots.
    The Military Industrial Complex will win and receive killer robots given their vast monies and congressional lobbies. Upon reflection, it's already a fait accompli today with flying drones attacking military targets in Yemen, etc.


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    Black Swan wrote: »
    Upon reflection, it's already a fait accompli today with flying drones attacking military targets in Yemen, etc.
    Drones controlled thousands of miles away from target by real military game players.


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    Fathom wrote: »
    Drones controlled thousands of miles away from target by real military game players.

    Boon for gaming industry?


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,872 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Free classes on Autonomous Mobile Robots provided by edX.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,470 ✭✭✭✭josip


    As soon as this guy gets his whatevers on an AK47 we're done.

    https://newatlas.com/atlas-robot-backflip/52234/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Archer Eager Viper


    Agree this (darpa's) new Atlas2 chap is a bit of a 'leap' ahead of previous models that stumbled over it's wires.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRj34o4hN4I

    Musk reckons this (ai-bots) are even more of a risk than Rocketman himself.

    darpas-atlas-robot-the-real-life-terminator-feat.jpg?resize=620%2C348&ssl=1


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    Free edX Artificial Intelligence courses.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Looks like the start of a trend, a way for corporations to make money.

    https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2017/12/08/security-robot-homeless-spca-mission-san-francisco.html
    , the security robot, which they've dubbed K9, was a way to try dealing with the growing number of needles, car break-ins and crime that seemed to emanate from nearby tent encampments of homeless people along the sidewalks.

    ...
    The robot costs about $6 per hour to rent,


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    Delivery robots. Security robots. Regulation soon to follow.


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    Fathom wrote: »
    Delivery robots. Security robots. Regulation soon to follow.

    San Francisco implements tight regulation on delivery robots.

    151103123221-starship-robot-780x439.jpg


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    i1.jpg


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,872 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Matt Simon in December Wired: 2017 Was the Year the Robots Really, Truly Arrived.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    The companion robots of science fiction went on sale in US December 2017. What's next? Will Smith's i-robots? Or a bit later, a Alicia Vikander Ex Machina?

    robot-1.jpg?itok=qxpJsq3a

    ex-machina-1.jpg?w=680


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