Nike sponsoring sub-2 hour marathon attempt

robinph

Looks like a rip off of Skechers Shape Ups.

https://www.skechers.com/en-gb/women/all?brand=/skechers-shape-ups

ThisRegard

The shoes are being investigated by the IAAF as being basically against the rules for such a record attempt

HigginsJ wrote: »

. They have released there sub 2 hour shoe as well, no springs on jet packs on them.

adrian522 wrote: »

$250 for a pair of running shoes?

They'd want to be electronically propelled or something.

Apparently there may indeed be springs

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/07/iaaf-investigation-concerns-springs-running-shoes-marathon

TFBubendorfer

HigginsJ wrote: »

$250 is the pair that you can go and buy, they will weight 8.5oz, the ones the guys will be using will weight 6.5oz and you can't buy. :eek:

Surely not.

The Lunaracers I used to buy years ago were lighter than 6.5 oz and my Saucony A6 are lighter than that as well.

El Caballo

Kipchoge ran 59:17 in very windy conditions for the half and said he was only running at 60% effort:pac:(impressive nonetheless). Tadesse ran 59:41 so it's safe to assume he was running hard if he didn't hang with Kipchoge. Desisa blew up to a 62 minute finish.

http://www.runnersworld.com/2-hour-marathon/sub-2-marathon-test-run-yields-fast-times-lingering-questions

Special drafting technique was implemented.

opus

El Caballo wrote: »

Kipchoge ran 59:17 in very windy conditions for the half and said he was only running at 60% effort:pac:(impressive nonetheless). Tadesse ran 59:41 so it's safe to assume he was running hard if he didn't hang with Kipchoge. Desisa blew up to a 62 minute finish.

http://www.runnersworld.com/2-hour-marathon/sub-2-marathon-test-run-yields-fast-times-lingering-questions

Special drafting technique was implemented.

I read that & either Kipchoge is just brimming with confidence or was being a bit tongue-in-cheek! To me that's just an amazing run for the half, makes me think they could well manage that two-hour target. Although tbh it's not like I've (as your average plodder!) ever though anyone who's running 2:05 and faster for a marathon is pedestrian or anything

robinph

Interesting that they have to have the car driven by an actual person or it doesn't count, although the record won't count anyway so not sure why that matters. Wonder if they have fiddled with the gearing any as it would actually be very tricky to drive a car at a consistent 13 miles an hour just using the pressure of your foot on the accelerator.

average_runner

robinph wrote: »

Interesting that they have to have the car driven by an actual person or it doesn't count, although the record won't count anyway so not sure why that matters. Wonder if they have fiddled with the gearing any as it would actually be very tricky to drive a car at a consistent 13 miles an hour just using the pressure of your foot on the accelerator.

Cruise mode would sort it

spurscormac

There's a lot of shoes that already include plates which could have been interpreted as springs in the past (Fila, Adidas & Hoka) but I guess the skepticism wasn't there to challenge them at the time.
How does a carbon plate in a road shoe compare to a carbon plate on the bottom of a sprinting spike?
Why should one be outlawed & the other not?

It looks like a very grey area to me.

This article on runner's world re Nike's Magic Shoes, delves a little into the questions around the shoes.

Peterx

From the runners world article

The next step for the team is to analyze the piles of data they collected from the runners during the attempt, from ingested core-temperature pills, taped-on muscle oxygen and skin-temperature sensors

Mad Ted.

clear thinking

Nike exec from NY Times "We’re giving our athletes a benefit within the rules as they’re written,” said Schoolmeester, the Nike executive, adding, “We’re not using any sort of illegal springs or anything like that.”

To me a 4% energy boost that they're claiming and 13% increase in energy returned from impact to lift off is an aid.

Nike deeming it legal is a bit rich and they are admitting it is a spring, in any case something that stores and releases energy is a spring even if they didn't admit it.

If it's to be believed it is worth 30-50s on a 5k, 5-10m off a marathon.

Id certainly expect my club to ban them in club races and ask aai to do the same.

Only thing is if there ends up being loads of models you would need some sort of load test to approve all competition shoes, obvious money there if iaaf approve shoes like fifa do footballs.

TFBubendorfer

clear thinking wrote: »

To me a 4% energy boost that they're claiming and 13% increase in energy returned from impact to lift off is an aid.

To me that claim is pure marketing bull**** and I don't believe it.

Carbon plates in shoes are actually not completely new and those shoes are not particularly light for racing shoes. I can't see where all those magic improvements would come from.

Murph_D

Besides, a spring doesn't store energy until the energy is supplied, by the runner in the case of a shoe. Muscles, joints, tendons all have some spring-like characteristics. So do rubber soles. I don't see anything wrong with a device that reduces energy loss and increases energy return, as long as that energy is produced by the runner in the first place. By legal means of course.

clear thinking

Murph_D wrote: »

Besides, a spring doesn't store energy until the energy is supplied, by the runner in the case of a shoe. Muscles, joints, tendons all have some spring-like characteristics. So do rubber soles. I don't see anything wrong with a device that reduces energy loss and increases energy return, as long as that energy is produced by the runner in the first place. By legal means of course.

Well that rules out showing up at a race on a bike! It is a legit point that shoes have energy supplied by the runner in the first place so it gets very grey as to where to draw the line.

HigginsJ

Nike have set May 6th as the projected date with May 7th or May 8th as back-up in case conditions are not ideal.

average_runner

Even if Nike do achieve this, it will mean nothing, as not valid course etc.

Would switching by a day or 2 at short notice not be disastrous for prep?

HigginsJ

average_runner wrote: »

Even if Nike do achieve this, it will mean nothing, as not valid course etc.

Not a valid course but it is not the net downhill long stretch of road some people were predicting so would be a little more believable in that aspect.

Genuine query, aside from the fact that it is a staged time trial what prevents this from being a WR attempt? Could the not get the IAAF to come in and measure the distance to make sure that is all above board?

HigginsJ

Deleted User wrote: »

Would switching by a day or 2 at short notice not be disastrous for prep?

I would have thought this myself but it sounds like they will have the decision made early in the week so might not be that bad.

HigginsJ

HigginsJ wrote: »

I would have thought this myself but it sounds like they will have the decision made early in the week so might not be that bad.

Also there's the assumption that this is a serious attempt. :pac:

adrian522

HigginsJ wrote: »

Not a valid course but it is not the net downhill long stretch of road some people were predicting so would be a little more believable in that aspect.

Genuine query, aside from the fact that it is a staged time trial what prevents this from being a WR attempt? Could the not get the IAAF to come in and measure the distance to make sure that is all above board?

Well nobody knows what they are doing. Are they going to have pacers come in and out during the race? If so that invalidates it as a WR attempt.

There are questions over the shoes they are wearing I'm not sure if they will stand up to scrutiny as being legal.

If they are drafting behind a car that is another problem.

jonnner

adrian522 wrote: »

Well nobody knows what they are doing. Are they going to have pacers come in and out during the race? If so that invalidates it as a WR attempt.

There are questions over the shoes they are wearing I'm not sure if they will stand up to scrutiny as being legal.

If they are drafting behind a car that is another problem.

Yep pacers will come in and out. Hydration and fuel will be delivered by moped so they don't have to slow down. Don't think that's allowed in record eligible Marathon .
There's going to be a live stream available which will be busy I'm sure.
I'll be watching. I know well it's basically a marketing ploy, but it'll still be interesting to watch.

robinph

Don't think there is anything wrong with the course, that is perfectly fine. It's the rotation of pacers and moped drinks station and pace car that will be the issues.

And the shoes which is the whole point of Nike doing it.

overpronator

It is what it is, a publicity stunt. That aside, if they do manage it, however unlikely that may be its a very interesting proof of concept that its physiologically possible for todays athlethes, other technical caveats aside. That would spur others on surely.

Ill be watching the circus!!

This Fat Girl Runs

I have a question. In a normal marathon situation, accounting for grabbing for drinks or unforseeables etc, what pace would someone have to actually run to get in under 2 hours?

robinph

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

I have a question. In a normal marathon situation, accounting for grabbing for drinks or unforseeables etc, what pace would someone have to actually run to get in under 2 hours?

4:35 per mile

A handy place to check running paces and compare for various distances is here:

https://www.mcmillanrunning.com

Edit: I guess to allow yourself an extra 26 seconds though for faffing with drinks, 26 seconds is actually a looong time to be stood around, then you just need to be going a second a mile quicker.

This Fat Girl Runs

robinph wrote:

Edit: I guess to allow yourself an extra 26 seconds though for faffing with drinks, 26 seconds is actually a looong time to be stood around, then you just need to be going a second a mile quicker.

Yeah, that's what I was wondering. 26 seconds at say 3 drink stations is a heafty chunk. I wasn't sure do racers factor that into their pace to even the time over the whole course or adjust the pace in later miles to make up for it.

walshb

Maybe eliminate a drinks station or two and install water blast stations throughout that showers them with water as they pass through...

average_runner

walshb wrote: »

Maybe eliminate a drinks station or two and install water blast stations throughout that showers them with water as they pass through...

How much time would wet gear add on

robinph

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

Yeah, that's what I was wondering. 26 seconds at say 3 drink stations is a heafty chunk. I wasn't sure do racers factor that into their pace to even the time over the whole course or adjust the pace in later miles to make up for it.

Someone going for 3hr, 4hrs etc or whatever other time target then yes you would need to allow a bit of extra as you are not going to be able to follow the racing line and will have other people getting in your way, as well as the course being long by at least 42 meters.

Up the very pointy end probably not as much as in theory they are racing other people rather than the clock, but they would need to have a bit more time in hand in a city marathon in order to allow for surviving when the pacers drop off and are no longer there to sheild them from the wind. I'd expect there to be pacers all the way round for this, until the last 100m if they have a few seconds to spare and need them running on their own for the photo.

walshb

average_runner wrote: »

How much time would wet gear add on

Fook all!