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Are people who have affairs/cheat bad people?

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People who have affairs, are they bad people? I know a woman who is cheating on her husband. I can't get over how such a seemingly nice person can be doing something so horrible to the man. Are people who have affairs/cheat on their OH's, bad people?

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La.de.da

Yes.
I personally think it's one of the most degrading things a person can do to someone they are supposed to love.

There are no excuses.

professore

tomwaterford wrote: »

Yes....they do

IME.....women are every bit as likely to cheat as men

I've seen it dozens of times.....the only slight difference in being that a single woman would be slightly less likely to cheat with married man than vice versa.....

mainly due to them spotting a ring etc,even at that....most wans I know wouldnt bother them

I have to agree with you there tomwaterford.

sbsquarepants

Colser wrote: »

So where are all the "knocking shops" for the women on a night out or at holiday destinations..we're falling over the "men's clubs" ect.?

They simply aren't necessary. Women can always get it for free - or even get paid for it!

professore

Walter H Price wrote: »

I don't see your point , why would i be outraged that she got drunk and shifted someone at an office party its hardly the end of the world , i think the relationship is more about the love then sex , sex is an intrisic part as in id have 0 interest in a relationship with out it but i don't think its more important then the love. I'm not saying i wouldn't be annoyed but i wouldn't view her as a bad person for doing it , and i certainly wouldn't be throwing our relationship on the scrap heap for a drunken shift.

But that's my point for you you draw the line at look don't touch , others draw the line somewhere else, anything from don't even look, to, does oral sex really count as cheating ? because of that alone it cannot be black and white its a grey scale.

My mates GF felt totally betrayed that he went to a strip club and felt he cheated, they very nearly broke up over it , we all thought she was a bit touched and a bit a controlling B!tch, but at that one of the other lads girlfriend's has literally no issue with the fact that on more then one occasion hes gotten a prostitute while we've been a way her view is if he's paying for it it doesn't count , and that's a bit of a running joke in the group ... the whole thing is a grey area.

What IS love in your opinion? Caring and supporting one person in a happy and above all RESPECTFUL relationship, that's love to me. After the butterflies disappear, it's RESPECT that's really what love is all about. And snogging or shagging randomers is not respecting your partner. And shagging them regularly.

tomwaterford

Colser wrote: »

Genuine question...why would a man want to do that if he's happy with his partner and do you honestly think that many women get up to anything like a lot of men do on a night/weekend away?

Yes....they do

IME.....women are every bit as likely to cheat as men

I've seen it dozens of times.....the only slight difference in being that a single woman would be slightly less likely to cheat with married man than vice versa.....

mainly due to them spotting a ring etc,even at that....most wans I know wouldnt bother them

HensVassal

Colser wrote: »

So where are all the "knocking shops" for the women on a night out or at holiday destinations..we're falling over the "men's clubs" ect.?

That's a non-sequitur, i.e. there are no brothels for women, hence women can't be up for hanky-panky on a hen night.

Men and women are different. If a man wants no strings sex he often has to pay for it. IF a woman want it she never has to pay for it. In fact she can walk into any bar or club pick a guy she wants as her mate for the night and have him pay for the evening.

professore

HensVassal wrote: »

I don't use one. I like to consider every detail before I rush to judgement.

You said earlier you don't judge at all. Or at least I think that was you. And I don't rush to judgement. I've thought a lot about this.

Estrellita

HensVassal wrote: »

I don't know why you're getting so defensive about a discussion. Seems there are some underlying insecurities.

Nah, I'm just not a cheating scumbag. Some people have standards.

There are people on here, such as yourself, who refuse to consider that a cheater is anything other than a piece of refuse

That would be because I'm in a relationship and I don't sleep around. I think better of myself to stoop to that level. So yeah, refuse is on par with my thinking.

What I notice is the typical reaction to that openmindedness is to froth at the mouth and accuse all of those people of asserting that cheating, any cheating is just fine. Nothing to get worke3d up about.

It's a piss-poor tactic at stifling a debate.

There you go using that frothing at the mouth crap again. The p.iss poor reference was mine too. Try coming up with some original material.

[Deleted User]

Colser wrote: »

So where are all the "knocking shops" for the women on a night out or at holiday destinations..we're falling over the "men's clubs" ect.?

Obviously women are sneakier and more underhand, right?

professore

Colser wrote: »

Genuine question...why would a man want to do that if he's happy with his partner

Because he likes having sex with attractive women - or even unattractive women that aren't his wife.

Colser wrote: »

and do you honestly think that many women get up to anything like a lot of men do on a night/weekend away?

Yes. See other answer.

tomwaterford

professore wrote: »

Equating is saying two things are equal. I didn't say that. I said it is as serious as domestic violence,

:pac:

Colser

HensVassal wrote:

Why, if a man was in a relationship that he's happy with, would he watch a pornographic movie?

Ridiculous comparison ...try harder ðŸ˜

HensVassal

professore wrote: »

I'll humour you for a minute and say that's what I'm using for a yardstick. What yardstick do you use?

I don't use one. I like to consider every detail before I rush to judgement.

professore

Colser wrote: »

So where are all the "knocking shops" for the women on a night out or at holiday destinations..we're falling over the "men's clubs" ect.?

Because it's much easier for women to get sex than men so they don't have to pay for it. Same reason women don't have to pay to get into nightclubs. And there is a latent market for it. Look how popular 50 shades was.

Widdershins

HensVassal wrote: »

Why should you work on a relationship if the spark IS gone and you want nothing more to do with that person?

You trot out these cliches that you hear in movies or soap operas. Life is short. You want to waste more of your years flogging a dead horse.

I was in a relationship for 6 years. Things started to go bad within the first 6 months. She cheated but I forgave her. But then the arguments became very bitter and she had a sadistic streak in her. She broke things that she knew I was fond of just to see me upset. She tried to kill one of my tropical tree frogs, the list of nastiness goes on. When we were good together it was good but I wish I had left earlier than 6 years. Trying to work on that powderkeg of a relationship was a waste of my time.

What you're talking about is very different to cheating because ''the spark was gone''.

I did not say anything about leaving, or cheating during, or giving up on abusive relationships.Which is what you were in.

If you think the comment is cliched and something from a movie or soap opera I won't be able to change your mind as we are obviously coming from very different outlooks and experiences. I can assure you it's not based on anything from movies, though. Maybe look to elderly couples who have made a success of their marriages.

professore

Colser wrote: »

Genuine question...why would a man want to do that if he's happy with his partner and do you honestly think that many women get up to anything like a lot of men do on a night/weekend away?

Yes. They are just as bad as men. Some women are faithful, some men are, but there are lots that aren't. Think about it - who are all these bad men having sex with?

I was at a Christmas party several years back and was propositioned by a woman married with kids for a night of sex since she had booked a hotel room for the night and the husband was at home minding the kids. She wasn't drunk either. Another time went away on a business trip (I was single but in a relationship at the time). Same story. And I'm no Leonardo Di Caprio. So don't give me the line that women don't do this. They do.

HensVassal

Colser wrote: »

Genuine question...why would a man want to do that if he's happy with his partner and do you honestly think that many women get up to anything like a lot of men do on a night/weekend away?

Why, if a man was in a relationship that he's happy with, would he watch a pornographic movie?

Colser

sbsquarepants wrote:

They certainly do. In my early chasing days I always made a beeline for any foreign hen do's in town - it was like shooting fish in a barrel! I couldn't tell you what their relationship status was for sure, but they couldn't have all been single.

So where are all the "knocking shops" for the women on a night out or at holiday destinations..we're falling over the "men's clubs" ect.?

professore

HensVassal wrote: »

There you go using your own anecdotal experience and circumstances as a yardstick by which all others' should be measured.

I'll humour you for a minute and say that's what I'm using for a yardstick. What yardstick do you use?

orubiru

Colser wrote: »

Genuine question...why would a man want to do that if he's happy with his partner and do you honestly think that many women get up to anything like a lot of men do on a night/weekend away?

Honestly, I don't know the answer to either of those points.

I was just saying that one of the main objections seems to be that the cheating causes harm and I feel like that is only relevant in instances when the cheater gets caught.

sbsquarepants

Colser wrote: »

Genuine question...why would a man want to do that if he's happy with his partner and do you honestly think that many women get up to anything like a lot of men do on a night/weekend away?

They certainly do. In my early chasing days I always made a beeline for any foreign hen do's in town - it was like shooting fish in a barrel! I couldn't tell you what their relationship status was for sure, but they couldn't have all been single.

In fact now that I think it of it, one of them was actually the bride to be!

HensVassal

Estrellita wrote: »

Monopoly on relationships my hole. Its a very simple rule. You are in a relationship or marriage, you don't cheat. How can you claim to love someone if you are willing to break their heart and call it a fcuking mistake? B.ollox, utter b.ollox.

I don't know why you're getting so defensive about a discussion. Seems there are some underlying insecurities. There are people on here, such as yourself, who refuse to consider that a cheater is anything other than a piece of refuse and there are other, more openminded people who are willing to consider things other than your entrenched and rigid dogma. What I notice is the typical reaction to that openmindedness is to froth at the mouth and accuse all of those people of asserting that cheating, any cheating is just fine. Nothing to get worke3d up about.

It's like people who advocate extreme forms of punishment for minor offenses and when more enlightened commonsense reasoning is suggested they scream "Oh, so you just want to give criminals a hug."

It's a piss-poor tactic at stifling a debate.

Colser

orubiru wrote:

So if a married guy goes on a business trip and has a one night stand with a woman he met at a bar then just gets on with his life what damage has he actually done?

Genuine question...why would a man want to do that if he's happy with his partner and do you honestly think that many women get up to anything like a lot of men do on a night/weekend away?

HensVassal

professore wrote: »

I've been married 20 years with kids and all the trappings so I know what's involved with ending a relationship. Still doesn't make it right. Ultimately if you cheat you will end up worse off in every way. There's no getting around it.

There you go using your own anecdotal experience and circumstances as a yardstick by which all others' should be measured.

orubiru

professore wrote: »

Equating is saying two things are equal. I didn't say that. I said it is as serious as domestic violence, it's psychological violence. It's a power thing - it's saying that your own happiness is more important than your partner's misery. There have been many suicides over this, some known personally to me.

Surely this is only relevant if the partner finds out?

It can't be psychological violence if they never know. It can't make them miserable if they never know.

So if a married guy goes on a business trip and has a one night stand with a woman he met at a bar then just gets on with his life what damage has he actually done?

Obviously there is a moral issue with lying, or lying by omission, but there's no actual harm done if nobody finds out.

"How was the business trip?" "It was OK, just a bit boring." End of story.

You could argue that taking a risk, that could potentially lead to them finding out, that could then lead to misery and harm is not a good thing to be doing in a relationship, and I would agree, but there is only harm done if someone finds out.

It's the same as lying really. You might tell your best friend you are too sick to go to their birthday party when in reality you just can't be bothered. It's a lie but there is no harm done until they find out.

So if a woman goes away for the weekend with friends, sleeps with some guy, takes precautions against disease and pregnancy etc and she is 100% sure that nobody will ever find out, does that really make her a bad person?

It might not be good or responsible behaviour but I cannot agree that it is necessarily harmful.

If a tree falls in a forest...

Walter H Price

professore wrote: »

What's the point of a relationship in that case? You're just friends with benefits?

To me, as a general rule, what goes on inside your head isn't cheating, as you have little control over that sometimes. also porn isn't cheating, as porn is really just a sex aid to masturbation, which isn't cheating. The strip club thing sounds like real control issues. Would she have had a problem going to one of these male stripper things on a hen night?

Strip club: not cheating
Watching porn: not cheating
Dirty dream: please ....
Watching 50 shades or reading "romantic" novel: not cheating
Fantasising about someone else while having sex: not cheating

You can look but you can't touch ...

YMMV

I don't see your point , why would i be outraged that she got drunk and shifted someone at an office party its hardly the end of the world , i think the relationship is more about the love then sex , sex is an intrisic part as in id have 0 interest in a relationship with out it but i don't think its more important then the love. I'm not saying i wouldn't be annoyed but i wouldn't view her as a bad person for doing it , and i certainly wouldn't be throwing our relationship on the scrap heap for a drunken shift.

But that's my point for you you draw the line at look don't touch , others draw the line somewhere else, anything from don't even look, to, does oral sex really count as cheating ? because of that alone it cannot be black and white its a grey scale.

My mates GF felt totally betrayed that he went to a strip club and felt he cheated, they very nearly broke up over it , we all thought she was a bit touched and a bit a controlling B!tch, but at that one of the other lads girlfriend's has literally no issue with the fact that on more then one occasion hes gotten a prostitute while we've been a way her view is if he's paying for it it doesn't count , and that's a bit of a running joke in the group ... the whole thing is a grey area.

professore

Walter H Price wrote: »

My view is there is worse things in a relationship then cheating , to be honest if my OH told me out straight she never wanted kids or never wanted sex again , that'd be me done on the spot , if she found religion or something id struggle to deal with that, to be honest ... if she told me she shifted someone on the office christmas night out id be a bit p!ssed off for a few days but id get past it , if she slept with someone else id want to know why but again i think i could get past it, its only sex at the end of the day ...

What's the point of a relationship in that case? You're just friends with benefits?

Walter H Price wrote: »

the other thing is where do you draw the line, one of the lads girlfriends accused him of cheating because we went to a strip club on a football weekend a few months back , he didn't even get a private dance , is watching porn cheating , what about having a dirty dream about someone else , where do you draw the line if its so black and white ???

To me, as a general rule, what goes on inside your head isn't cheating, as you have little control over that sometimes. also porn isn't cheating, as porn is really just a sex aid to masturbation, which isn't cheating. The strip club thing sounds like real control issues. Would she have had a problem going to one of these male stripper things on a hen night?

Strip club: not cheating
Watching porn: not cheating
Dirty dream: please ....
Watching 50 shades or reading "romantic" novel: not cheating
Fantasising about someone else while having sex: not cheating

You can look but you can't touch ...

YMMV

I want my partner to embrace their sexuality. Not "I would never do that sort of thing, I'm far too good a person" type of thing, but "sure I fancy XYZ, but won't put myself in a vulnerable position" type of thing.

professore

sashafierce wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yes that's been my experience too. It's all about "me, me, me" ... men with great supportive wives. Women with decent kind men who are great with the kids and treat them like queens. Never is it the wife of the useless alcoholic man who beats her, or the horrible demeaning belittling woman's husband who cheats.

It always seems to be the person who wants to be in control, to be the centre of attention, and thinks they are a wonderful person, while most people secretly despise them but are too polite to say it, and the few that do are brushed off as "assholes" or "jealous".

There are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.

HensVassal

Colser wrote: »

What are the times that you consider it excusable?

I could think of some situations where I wouldn't be so quick to condemn the cheater like some of the pitch-forkers on here.

I certainly wouldn't hold it against a girl forced into an arranged marriage with some pig twice her age, when she was secretly in love with a childhood sweetheart.

Walter H Price

DrPhilG wrote: »

In my opinion it's a completely black and white situation.

If you're in a loveless/sexless marriage, talk to your partner, try to fix it, if you can't then leave.

If you can't go to a party and get drunk without falling into someone else's arms/pants then don't get drunk.

If you meet someone else and can't help but fall in love (BS too IMO), leave your current partner before embarking on your new relationship.

I have yet to hear any excuse for cheating that I think is even remotely valid. It's simply par for the course these days. Cheating is seen as a little indiscretion not worthy of a big fuss. From other threads here, most people don't even count it as cheating unless there is sex. You can shift the face off people all night long but as long as you keep your drawers on its all good. Many have even said that a one night stand doesn't count as cheating, only an ongoing affair.

My view is there is worse things in a relationship then cheating , to be honest if my OH told me out straight she never wanted kids or never wanted sex again , that'd be me done on the spot , if she found religion or something id struggle to deal with that, to be honest ... if she told me she shifted someone on the office christmas night out id be a bit p!ssed off for a few days but id get past it , if she slept with someone else id want to know why but again i think i could get past it, its only sex at the end of the day ... the other thing is where do you draw the line, one of the lads girlfriends accused him of cheating because we went to a strip club on a football weekend a few months back , he didn't even get a private dance , is watching porn cheating , what about having a dirty dream about someone else , where do you draw the line if its so black and white ???