41 new ICR centre cars

goingnowhere

There is no transformer

The PR spiel is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ji95_pTZnc

Political Wall Map

goingnowhere wrote: »

There is no transformer

The PR spiel is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ji95_pTZnc

For the hybrids?

goingnowhere

Thats the hybrid spiel, its real. Everything bar the battery is within the existing engine raft

And i'm hiding behind Jim Meade in the video, the demo engine also made an appearance at the ploughing festival. Irish Rail is potentially the biggest single customer looking at 275 engines + spares.

The engine with the near ZF gearbox is already out and about in set 22007

L1011

Political Wall Map wrote: »

Its not the actual powerpack. (I have my doubts that it will be as easy as you say).... it would be the location of the transformer probably 500kg, moving of existing fuel and air pipes to accommodate the new envelope of the powerpack, the hybrid batteries at 350 kg per battery will be larger, heavier than the existing...... im sure there are more things than we would think of.....

And lets not forget, the objective would be fit to the entire 22000 fleet.... so there will be a lot of work in this.

What transformer? There is no reason you would need anything of that scale in this type of product.

Political Wall Map

goingnowhere wrote: »

Thats the hybrid spiel, its real. Everything bar the battery is within the existing engine raft

And i'm hiding behind Jim Meade in the video, the demo engine also made an appearance at the ploughing festival. Irish Rail is potentially the biggest single customer looking at 275 engines + spares.

The engine with the near ZF gearbox is already out and about in set 22007

There is a transformer on the powerpack? Or no transformer at all? I am nearly 100% sure the lads said about the transformer at the ploughing champs. Thats how i knew about it

goingnowhere

No transformer is needed for the hybrid system.

There is generator in the existing raft which pushes out 380vAC 3 phase, 110vDC and 24vDC for which a transformer probably needed

Political Wall Map

goingnowhere wrote: »

No transformer is needed for the hybrid system.

There is generator in the existing raft which pushes out 380vAC 3 phase, 110vDC and 24vDC for which a transformer probably needed

No there is no hydraulic Generator new powerpack. The power comes from the "EMachine." I screenshot the transformer, and circled in yellow for reference. And I think that the powerpack is already so cramped, it will not fit so space somewhere else will be needed. Hopefully the screenshot makes sense

Del.Monte

Is there a need for a new sub-forum within Train & Rail Systems as all this very detailed technical stuff leaves me cold. Anybody else?

highdef

Del.Monte wrote: »

Is there a need for a new sub-forum within Train & Rail Systems as all this very detailed technical stuff leaves me cold. Anybody else?

Not at all. Much better to have everything in the one place. Personal preferences of different aspects of the subject are to expected so when you come across something you've no interest in, read ahead until you find the next bit that fits your personal preferences.

Geuze

Can I clarify?

The new 41 ICR cars will have these new MTU hybrid diesel engine + electric motor+battery, ok?

AND

IE are going to remove all the existing engines from all existing ICR cars, and replace them with new MTU hybrids?

Political Wall Map

Geuze wrote: »

Can I clarify?

The new 41 ICR cars will have these new MTU hybrid diesel engine + electric motor+battery, ok?

AND

IE are going to remove all the existing engines from all existing ICR cars, and replace them with new MTU hybrids?

From what I can make out, wont be hybrid. But Stage V. They can be changed to Hybrid with a few changes in a few years.

If the trials were a success that would be next logical step....

goingnowhere

Certainly be Stage V and the ZF gearbox

dowlingm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Is there a need for a new sub-forum within Train & Rail Systems as all this very detailed technical stuff leaves me cold. Anybody else?

certainly not until fare disputes has their own forum.

Geuze

Have all 41 been delivered?

Are all 41 in service?

Very expensive, 150m for 41 coaches.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593020#Comment_121593020

You really do have some strange ideas about how much rail infrastructure or rolling stock should cost. They're never cheap, but you have to look at how long benefits will be derived from them.

None are in service yet - they are awaiting the safety approval from the CRR.

Once that is forthcoming, I would expect that it will be late summer or even early autumn I would imagine before they will all be in service.

Geuze

"This represents an investment of €150 million, and the delivery of the carriages began in September 2022."

Delivery began 15 months ago, and none are in service yet.

This safety approval process seems to take a long time?

I would have thought a week or so, but obviously I'm wrong.

Geuze

Finland - 20 Stadler FLIRT EMU trains (not single coaches) = 80 vehicles for 250m

So 12.5m per set, or 3.125 per car, including spare parts

We are paying 3.66m per coach, 150m/41, so I suppose we are not too far out.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593780#Comment_121593780

the big thing that takes up the time is the running trials i guess.

a certain amount of milage has to be done as part of those trials to make sure the cars are working properly and iron out any faults if there are any.

howiya

So the 41 new cars they reference in every budget speech are one set of 41 cars that have been planned since 2016 when this thread started? Wow.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637845#Comment_121637845

Yes. I think they may have double referenced the DART orders too (there have been two, but more than two references to them as new)

Losty Dublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593813#Comment_121593813

FLIRT are suburban electric units, which are somewhat cheaper than a diesel mainline given less mechanical systems internally. Nonetheless, they look to be a superb unit and come with a good track record.

Jamie2k9

Is there a date for starting to entre service. Worth remembering the first 3 coaches arrived in Sep 2022 and at the time were due to enter service early 2023. I'm sure its a complex process but its now almost 15 months...

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662562#Comment_121662562

As above - dependent on CRR approval.

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662570#Comment_121662570

I don't think the CRR are fully responsible for the long delay between arrival and EIN or IE underestimated the project.

I am sure someone around here has some reliable estimate on dates.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662623#Comment_121662623

You asked when they are likely to enter service.

My understanding is that the only thing holding that up now is the final sign off from CRR.

Once that comes it shouldn’t be too long after when the first one enters service.

goingnowhere

There was certainly talk of issues with the documentation coming from Korea and that doesn't help with the CRR.

It might the same train, but its its not. The rules have changed since and the equipment onboard is different

External cameras are different?, the CCTV gear is different, the seat reservation kit is different, the interior layout is different, smoke sensors in different places, the position of the above floor equipment is different, the engine raft is different, the engine mount is different, safety assessment of the new multipurpose space etc etc.

Had the trains been ordered back in 2016 when all this started the delta between the original and the 41 would have been less

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662821#Comment_121662821

I asked for a timeline.

Anyway I see Jim Meade is expecting CRR approval middle of Feb.

Geuze

If a new bus model is delivered into Ireland, is it subject to 15 months of tests and certification?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121687251#Comment_121687251

Well at the time of writing my post, that was a “how long is a piece of string” question!

goingnowhere

Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_701 took 3 years 9 months from first unit arriving to entering revenue service.