Russian and alt-right Interference in democracies.

Count Dooku

Gatling wrote: »

Poisoning ,heart attacks , unsolved murders seems to befall critics and journalists that oppose putin on a regular basis

Any news from Seth Rich investigation?

Hank Scorpio

The DHS released a string of new videos that are going to rattle up the pizzagate conspiracy.

https://twitter.com/idawhannadoyou/status/828159435730214912

WinnyThePoo

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

The DHS released a string of new videos that are going to rattle up the pizzagate conspiracy.

https://twitter.com/idawhannadoyou/status/828159435730214912

Perhaps post this stuff in the conspiracy theory forum.. You might get an a reaction.

Billy86

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Perhaps post this stuff in the conspiracy theory forum.. You might get an a reaction.

I'd actually consider it quite a positive ad (well, as positive as one can be considering the subject matter). Funnily enough, which is completely at odds with what we've seen from the administration Russia allegedly interfered to help in the election.

Professor Moriarty

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

The DHS released a string of new videos that are going to rattle up the pizzagate conspiracy.

https://twitter.com/idawhannadoyou/status/828159435730214912

So you think that advert rekindles the utterly debunked Democrat pedophile conspiracy? Ok.

Hank Scorpio

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So you think that advert rekindles the utterly debunked Democrat pedophile conspiracy? Ok.

Merely pointing out that specifically using a pizza parlor in an anti trafficking ad might not be the wisest decision after what went on with that comet pizza place and the guy bringing a gun in there.

Professor Moriarty

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Merely pointing out that specifically using a pizza parlor in an anti trafficking ad might not be the wisest decision after what went on with that comet pizza place and the guy bringing a gun in there.

Good point. There's enough paranoia all round as it is.

WinnyThePoo

I enjoyed reading this article on social media and trolls. This concentrates on Le Pen's 'army of far right trolls'

http://www.politico.eu/article/marine-le-pens-internet-army-far-right-trolls-social-media/

Konstantin Rykov is someone worth looking into a bit more.

demfad

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

I enjoyed reading this article on social media and trolls. This concentrates on Le Pen's 'army of far right trolls'

http://www.politico.eu/article/marine-le-pens-internet-army-far-right-trolls-social-media/

Konstantin Rykov is someone worth looking into a bit more.

Nearly all the alt-right leaders have visited Moscow. As Russia are leaders in social media/Internet electorate manipulation then Rybov or similar may have advised them if this is true regarding his advice to Lepen.

The creator of the archictecture of modern Russian politics is Vladislav Surkov.
He is a 'political technologist' renowned for creating all the political parties in Russia, NGOs, skinhead groups etc etc. The power of TV and art is used to give the illusion of freedom. He calls this 'sovereign democracy'.
He is currentky incharge of the cyber/propaganda campaign in Ukraine.

Yourself isit

demfad wrote: »

Nearly all the alt-right leaders have visited Moscow. As Russia are leaders in social media/Internet electorate manipulation then Rybov or similar may have advised them if this is true regarding his advice to Lepen.

The creator of the archictecture of modern Russian politics is Vladislav Surkov.
He is a 'political technologist' renowned for creating all the political parties in Russia, NGOs, skinhead groups etc etc. The power of TV and art is used to give the illusion of freedom. He calls this 'sovereign democracy'.
He is currentky incharge of the cyber/propaganda campaign in Ukraine.

This russophobia is beginning to sound like the wilder extremes of anti-Semitism. Protocols of the order of slav.

demfad

Yourself isit wrote: »

This russophobia is beginning to sound like the wilder extremes of anti-Semitism. Protocols of the order of slav.

Can you substantiate why you thing this is Russophobia? Or you saying Vladislav Surkov did NOT do these things?

Elmer Blooker

The creator of the archictecture of modern Russian politics is Vladislav Surkov. He is a 'political technologist'

Surkov is a "political technologist" :pac:
Who comes up with these terms that sound like something out of Orwell's 1984?
Last time I checked the two biggest opposition parties in Russia, The Liberal Democrats and the Communist Party were founded in 1989 and 1993 respectively. But if impartial sources like The Guardian, theatlantic.com, opendemocracy.net, foreignpolicy.com and other "think-tanks" say he's a "political technologist" then who am I to argue.
Aren't political technologists known as aides and advisors in our part of the world?

alastair

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Surkov is a "political technologist" :pac:
Who comes up with these terms that sound like something out of Orwell's 1984?

The Russian themselves. Credited to a Nezavisimaya gazeta article in 1996, when it was being bankrolled by Boris Berezovsky, then in bed with Putin, subsequently not, and found hanged in suspicious circumstances.

demfad

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Surkov is a "political technologist" :pac:
Who comes up with these terms that sound like something out of Orwell's 1984?
Last time I checked the two biggest opposition parties in Russia, The Liberal Democrats and the Communist Party were founded in 1989 and 1993 respectively. But if impartial sources like The Guardian, theatlantic.com, opendemocracy.net, foreignpolicy.com and other "think-tanks" say he's a "political technologist" then who am I to argue.
Aren't political technologists known as aides and advisors in our part of the world?

He calls himself a political technologist. He set up the two main Russian parties 'United Russia' (The Government) and the left wing coalition 'A Just Russia'.
My sources would be a book of his essays, a book on modern Russia by Peter Pomerstav and others. Excerpt from the book below for interest.
This guy invented post-truth on the scale we see it now.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/11/hidden-author-putinism-russia-vladislav-surkov/382489/

Billy86

alastair wrote: »

The Russian themselves. Credited to a Nezavisimaya gazeta article in 1996, when it was being bankrolled by Boris Berezovsky, then in bed with Putin, subsequently not, and found hanged in suspicious circumstances.

Oh do shut up, he died. That's all there is to it. People trip up choke to death on their razor sharp ties, causing ligatures, all the time. Nothing to see here.

demfad wrote: »

My sources would be a book of his essays, a book on modern Russia by Peter Pomerstav and others. Excerpt from the book below for interest.

And you... books? Would ya go away outta that with your "books"! :rolleyes:

Hank Scorpio

Wouldn't be the first person to die in suspicious circumstances related to people in power.

On the topic of internet trolls, wasn't stuff flying around about David Brock and groups like correct the record?

Count Dooku

demfad wrote: »

Can you substantiate why you thing this is Russophobia? Or you saying Vladislav Surkov did NOT do these things?

He did some of those things because he want to save his country from nightmare of liberalism, which Russia experienced in 1990s
BTW, he was born as Aslambek Dudayev

Count Dooku

demfad wrote: »

He calls himself a political technologist. He set up the two main Russian parties 'United Russia' (The Government) and the left wing coalition 'A Just Russia'.
My sources would be a book of his essays, a book on modern Russia by Peter Pomerstav and others. Excerpt from the book below for interest.
This guy invented post-truth on the scale we see it now.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/11/hidden-author-putinism-russia-vladislav-surkov/382489/

Peter Pomerantsev spent in total less than 3 years of his life in Russia and most things what he wrote exists only in his imagination
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion have more common with reality than his books about Russia. Mostly it is copypaste from the most famous russophobe Edward Lucas

demfad

Count Dooku wrote: »

He did some of those things because he want to save his country from nightmare of liberalism, which Russia experienced in 1990s
BTW, he was born as Aslambek Dudayev

Yes his father was Chechnian.
I asked for substantiation NOT an opinion with no backing reason.

MightyMandarin

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/10/michael-flynn-trump-national-security-adviser-russia-sanctions

So Michael Flynn was caught red-handed by US intelligence discussing Russian sanctions with the Russians, before he took office. This comes after he repeatedly said that he didn't at all.

The evidence is coming out drip by drip but it's clear as day what's going on.

Trump and Putin have a dirty deal together with lots of things on the table: Hacking the DNC to help Trump win, easing sanctions on Russia, 19.5% of Rosneft going to Trump from Carter Page's deal, invading Ukraine in order to transport the oil tax-free through Ukraine in a deal with Exxon-Mobil (who's CEO at the time was Tillerson), probably even some blackmail in there with the 'Golden Shower' incident.

Watch now as lie after lie will come from this administration.

Elmer Blooker

MightyMandarin wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/10/michael-flynn-trump-national-security-adviser-russia-sanctions

So Michael Flynn was caught red-handed by US intelligence discussing Russian sanctions with the Russians, before he took office. This comes after he repeatedly said that he didn't at all.

The evidence is coming out drip by drip but it's clear as day what's going on.

Trump and Putin have a dirty deal together with lots of things on the table: Hacking the DNC to help Trump win, easing sanctions on Russia, 19.5% of Rosneft going to Trump from Carter Page's deal, invading Ukraine in order to transport the oil tax-free through Ukraine in a deal with Exxon-Mobil (who's CEO at the time was Tillerson), probably even some blackmail in there with the 'Golden Shower' incident.

Watch now as lie after lie will come from this administration.

I did see anything in your link that suggests Flynn was "caught redhanded"?
All I see is the usual "reports from sources"

The reports quoted sources who had seen a purported intelligence transcript of the calls.

Interesting that the word purported was used.

MightyMandarin

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I did see anything in your link that suggests Flynn was "caught redhanded"?
All I see is the usual "reports from sources"

Interesting that the word purported was used.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/national-security-adviser-flynn-discussed-sanctions-with-russian-ambassador-despite-denials-officials-say/2017/02/09/f85b29d6-ee11-11e6-b4ff-ac2cf509efe5_story.html?utm_term=.3c87372467f5

Is this one better for you?

demfad

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I did see anything in your link that suggests Flynn was "caught redhanded"?
All I see is the usual "reports from sources"

Sources this time are NINE senior intelligence officers who are either current or were there during that period.

Same for this leak where parts of the Steele dossier are verified.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/russia-dossier-update/index.html

Moscow Mike is gone and pressure mounting on Trump,.

MightyMandarin

demfad wrote: »

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I did see anything in your link that suggests Flynn was "caught redhanded"?
All I see is the usual "reports from sources"

Sources this time are NINE senior intelligence officers who are either current or were there during that period.

Same for this leak where parts of the Steele dossier are verified.

Don't worry for *ahem* some people, even that evidence isn't enough to arise the slightest bit of suspicion.

Elmer Blooker

MightyMandarin wrote: »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/national-security-adviser-flynn-discussed-sanctions-with-russian-ambassador-despite-denials-officials-say/2017/02/09/f85b29d6-ee11-11e6-b4ff-ac2cf509efe5_story.html?utm_term=.3c87372467f5

Is this one better for you?

What point are you trying to make? Is having discussions with the Russian ambassador a crime? Apparently it is in these days of McCarthyist witch hunts it is and the climate of fear that the media has created.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-reviewed-flynns-calls-with-russian-ambassador-but-found-nothing-illicit/2017/01/23/aa83879a-e1ae-11e6-a547-5fb9411d332c_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.981eed265f4a
My understanding is that it the job of an ambassador to have discussion with whoever they see fit.

Don't worry for *ahem* some people, even that evidence isn't enough to arise the slightest bit of suspicion.

... evidence of what? (see my link)

MightyMandarin

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

What point are you trying to make? Is having discussions with the Russian ambassador a crime? Apparently it is in these days of McCarthyist witch hunts it is and the climate of fear that the media has created.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-reviewed-flynns-calls-with-russian-ambassador-but-found-nothing-illicit/2017/01/23/aa83879a-e1ae-11e6-a547-5fb9411d332c_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.981eed265f4a
My understanding is that it the job of an ambassador to have discussion with whoever they see fit.


... evidence of what? (see my link)

Actually it is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act

Yeah, that link is from Jan. 23rd, there's new information out now. And with the way Jim Comey acted in clear bias of Trump before the election, I'd handle anything coming from the FBI with a bit of salt.

demfad

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

What point are you trying to make? Is having discussions with the Russian ambassador a crime? Apparently it is in these days of McCarthyist witch hunts it is and the climate of fear that the media has created.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-reviewed-flynns-calls-with-russian-ambassador-but-found-nothing-illicit/2017/01/23/aa83879a-e1ae-11e6-a547-5fb9411d332c_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.981eed265f4a
My understanding is that it the job of an ambassador to have discussion with whoever they see fit.


... evidence of what? (see my link)

Why are you quoting a link from weeks ago instead of the link from the recent story? Why mislead people?

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/02/10/six-stunning-aspects-of-the-flynn-scandal/?client=safari

MightyMandarin

I wonder will the same people be still claiming there's nothing untoward going on with this administration and Russia, especially now that Flynn got the boot and the WP says that Sally Yates and the DOJ told the WH about him and his dealings a month ago?

This is only the tip of the iceberg.

KingBrian2

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I wonder will the same people be still claiming there's nothing untoward going on with this administration and Russia, especially now that Flynn got the boot and the WP says that Sally Yates and the DOJ told the WH about him and his dealings a month ago?

This is only the tip of the iceberg.

Russia is still very much seen as an enemy of the US so i don't see any untoward. Most of the anti Russia hysteria is coming from the media. US intel if you want to believe them have constantly spread the message that Russia is threatening to take the Baltic which they are not. We still have a huge NATO presence in Europe after Trump said NATO was obsolete so far from shifting his position to a pro Russia approach he has reversed his positions as a result of public pressure. I see the work of the military in cahoots with the media ensuring that these tried and tested policies of a permanent war footing with Russia remains. Just the other day it came up that US and Russia interests are incompatible so lets remain enemies.

MightyMandarin

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Russia is still very much seen as an enemy of the US so i don't see any untoward.

Not according to Trump anyway.

Most of the anti Russia hysteria is coming from the media.

Really? Cause congressional Republicans repeatedly call Putin a 'war criminal', Russia 'dangerous'. Don't blame this just on the media.

US intel if you want to believe them have constantly spread the message that Russia is threatening to take the Baltic which they are not.

Well we won't know until they invade, just like they did in Ukraine. Russia is also repeatedly making cyber attacks on Baltic states and has been for years.

I see the work of the military in cahoots with the media ensuring that these tried and tested policies of a permanent war footing with Russia remains.

Really? Cause I see the work of a "businessman" making corrupt deals with Russia, aswell as having the stick of blackmail behind him.