Should Ireland have conscription?

Chancer3001

Joshua J wrote: »

Forcing people against their will to learn how to kill other people?. This is the best use of our time here on Earth?.

Teach them respect discipline teamwork loyalty self sacrifice altruism humility and work ethic.

If shooting guns is part of that then so be it.

They dont have to sit around idle either.

Teach them skills and have them work in the country. Highway maintenance, even tidying problem areas, painting, supervising, exchange with ither conscrupted forces around the world to broaden the mind

Joshua J

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Teach them respect discipline teamwork loyalty self sacrifice altruism humility and work ethic.

If shooting guns is part of that then so be it.

They dont have to sit around idle either.

Teach them skills and have them work in the country. Highway maintenance, even tidying problem areas, painting, supervising, exchange with ither conscrupted forces around the world to broaden the mind

Against their will?.

El_Duderino 09

riffmongous wrote:

I know people who did it in Austria and said it was a complete waste of time, after the few weeks of basic training there is ****-all to do.. just sitting around playing cards or whatever.

My cousin said the same if his time in the Austrian army. He said his manager (whatever the military term was) knew who wanted to be there and who didn't.

He took the former on training and he came into the barracks every morning and asked the latter if they had work to do. If they said yes they would be left alone for the day, if they said no he would create a job like digging and filling a hole.

Widdershins

Joshua J wrote: »

Against their will?.

A bit like school.

Joshua J

Widdershins wrote: »

A bit like school.

Killing school?.

Sam Kade

Too many nancy boys around nowadays a few years in the army would sort them.

El_Duderino 09

Looking at history, the adventure of military must be interesting to some people. The less you have going on in your life the more appealing it must become. Some people just like the idea of war and military. I can't imagine conscription being good for the military.

If you think people need discipline, why the military? You need discipline in real life too. I think the Germans can do useful public service of some kind. I'd say the unions and workers would kick up a terrible fuss about young people coming in doing their job for cheap. That doesn't really apply to the Irish military because they do the important work with the professionals they have. The rest would just be busy work rather than anything useful

The One Doctor

If the government forced me to become a fighter pilot, I'd reluctantly accept.

Otherwise fuck that. No sane person should want to learn to kill people as a trade.

And yes, I'm aware of the hypocrisy.

Widdershins

Joshua J wrote: »

Killing school?.

changing the subject much. In terms of it being mandatory against their will.

Plenty of people learn skills or a trade in the army, they don't all go into combat.
A lot to be said for discipline and endurance etc.

Joshua J

Widdershins wrote: »

changing the subject much. In terms of it being mandatory against their will.

Plenty of people learn skills or a trade in the army, they don't all go into combat.
A lot to be said for discipline and endurance etc.

Maybe you need the discipline and endurance, if so, have at it. Leave it up to other people to decide for themselves.

Widdershins

Joshua J wrote: »

Maybe you need the discipline and endurance, if so, have at it. Leave it up to other people to decide for themselves.

I'm fine thanks. The general idea is that it would be compulsory so there'd be no deciding for yourself. Presumably for the common good. And it's nothing to do with me.

Joshua J

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm fine thanks. The general idea is that it would be compulsory so there'd be no deciding for yourself. Presumably for the common good. And it's nothing to do with me.

I'd be deciding for myself thanks all the same.

Grueller

Digital Solitude wrote: »

I can make my bed just fine.

Why do you think we should or shouldn't have it?

I personally would deem it a silly idea, out current armed force is less than 10,000 strong and is doing pretty fine, up on 70,000 people sit the leaving every year, so we'd be putting that number close to 50-60,000. An increase in the reserves to help AGS would be no harm but conscription makes no sense IMO

Why not just employ enough gardai to do the job properly?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Conscrption - no. Not everyone is geared to be in the army (and the army, above all else, know this)

National service of some description, though - yes.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

AnGaelach wrote: »

To learn how to arrange their linen immaculately... What purpose does any country have conscription for? Finland, Austria and Sweden all use conscription as neutral countries.

Sweden doesn't have it any more, Finalnd and Austria have alternatives to military service.

I perform national service every year for about the first three months of the year.

Goya

Chancer3001 wrote: »

We should have it to whip our teens into physical shape.

Daily exercise. High levels of fitness. Make us a healthier country eventually.

Make people older and wiser going to college and the same starting their working lives.

Cant think of many downsides

Were you in the army?

Chancer3001

Flimpson wrote: »

Were you in the army?

No

fizzypish

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Sweden doesn't have it any more, Finalnd and Austria have alternatives to military service.

Was talking to some Austrians recently. They were totally for their military service and proud to have done so. Personally I wouldn't have minded doing service. I don't think anybody should jump from secondary school into 3rd level education. Start working (or something) and take a year to grow a bit outside the nest. Of course having some alternative to military service would be a must. Some people wouldn't be cool with military service but defiantly some form of service. As much as we **** on this country, tis'nt a bad ould spot and I wouldn't mind giving back.

seamus

No. We would be pissing money away on military spending that we don't need.

There is absolutely zero evidence from any other country that mandatory military time results in less criminals or "hardens" people up. That's a romantic notion.

I would massively support a programme however where school leavers could get a college place and put it on hold for a year or two, to engage in some kind of training with specific groups - mountain rescue, civil defence, fire service, ambulance or military. Most of these groups are badly in need of support, and the more people who have done some work with them, the more likely they are to rejoin them after college, or otherwise support them at events or for funding, etc.

Throwing people into military service after school does nothing to help the country and the person's local community.

HalloweenJack

No. I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of national service (a year or so where you have to do a job that contributes positively and selflessly to society) but I loathe armies and the military and don't think it's the way to go.

The_Captain

What kind of thick do you have to be to think that joining the military here is giving something back to the country or providing a benefit to the nation?

Get a job, pay tax and do volunteer work and you'll provide a better service to the country

Widdershins

The_Captain wrote: »

What kind of thick do you have to be to think that joining the military here is giving something back to the country or providing a benefit to the nation?

Get a job, pay tax and do volunteer work and you'll provide a better service to the country

At least some people want to give back to the country.

elefant

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Teach them respect discipline teamwork loyalty self sacrifice altruism humility and work ethic.

Might as well force them to join a sports team then if those are the reasons.

It would be a lot more fun, have longer-lasting benefits, and so a lot less of a pointless exercise.

Barry Badrinath

Military service, no.

Civil, emergency and community service, yes.

The_Captain

Widdershins wrote: »

At least some people want to give back to the country.

Yeah fair enough, and that's admirable. But there's much better ways to make Ireland a better country than running around the Curragh with a Steyr a couple of weekends a year

MeatTwoVeg

I think a year of national service would be great, not necessarily in the military.
Would create a stronger sense of society and shared experience.

A man I knew in England had to do national service because of the school he went to. He didn't want to be there and but had to do target practice.
Most others were taking it seriously but because he didn't want to be there he just took his shots without thinking much about it - he was the best shot and had to go to other extra competitions because of it.

El_Duderino 09

MeatTwoVeg wrote:

I think a year of national service would be great, not necessarily in the military. Would create a stronger sense of society and shared experience.

While i agree that service would be positive, what about the distortion to labour markets? Say they go work in care homes or cleaning streets. What happens to people who work on care homes and street sweeping? What happens when the care worker looks for more money or better conditions? Would you pay more to staff when you could hire free labour from national service?

It might be a good idea in principle but not if it would further suppress minimum wage jobs

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

fizzypish wrote: »

Was talking to some Austrians recently. They were totally for their military service and proud to have done so. Personally I wouldn't have minded doing service. I don't think anybody should jump from secondary school into 3rd level education. Start working (or something) and take a year to grow a bit outside the nest. Of course having some alternative to military service would be a must. Some people wouldn't be cool with military service but defiantly some form of service. As much as we **** on this country, tis'nt a bad ould spot and I wouldn't mind giving back.

They do this in Britain with a "gap year" - althoguh most students use it to travel rather than stay at home.