Ireland would have been a better place under British rule?

AnGaelach

A Little Pony wrote: »

Like Connolly said, England still rules you.

Connolly was a Commie.

Collie D

Johnboner wrote: »

Did you read anything else I wrote? .

Actually no. Why would I? You complain, you don't vote, you haven't answered a single question. Your posts have no substance.

I smell a Direct Democracy Ireland shill or a troll. At the very best you're a rereg.

I'm actually not even sure if you've ever even lived in Ireland now that I think of it.

iLikeWaffles

Avatar MIA wrote: »

If the point was to suggest we could potentially get someone as useless as an academic it was a bit of a waste.

People, I think, mostly over estimate the effect a government has on the running of a country.

Name a few politicians that you think have made a significant and positive effect on their country? And I'm guessing none of them were political professors.

No. The point was we should be voting for a Taoiseach and putting someone in power that we know will do a good job based off their performance in their professional field. You wouldn't ask a carpenter to do electrical work on your house would you?

Democracy is voting to put people in power that will run the country you could say that politicians work for the people if you can not vote collectively to put a Taoiseach in power how is that democracy. Yes we all voted for most of the current government but they only got their seats from the local constituency they won. They could still do the work they do for their constituency from the seats they won. If the people had the say in who gets to be Taoiseach it would be our responsibility to make sure he/she do what works for everyone.

What are the current qualifications you need to be a politician? None, That's correct. Unless that changes we're going to have under qualified people running the country which amounts to a below low standard Government. Politicians employ the advice of highly educated and intelligent people in making decisions why should they be dumb founded when making those decisions. I'm not saying they shouldn't be seeking the advisors solution but they should be educated enough and have the aptitude to come to the same conclusion at the same time or before their advisor. Most of the work done in running the country is done by civil servants who are very good at what they do. It takes a long time and a lot of training to have success in any job. The Irish demographic deserve to have a Taoiseach that will bring this country into its next 100 years without face palming.

Yourself isit

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

No. The point was we should be voting for a Taoiseach and putting someone in power that we know will do a good job based off their performance in their professional field. You wouldn't ask an carpenter to electrical work on your house would you?

Democracy is voting to put people in power that will run the country you could say that politicians work for the people if you can not vote collectively to put a Taoiseach in power how is that democracy. Yes we all voted for most of the current government but they only got their seats from the local constituency they won. They could still do the work they do for their constituency from the seats they won. If the people had the say in who gets to be Taoiseach it would be our responsibility to make sure he/she do what works for everyone.

What are the current qualifications you need to be a politician? None, That's correct. Unless that changes we're going to have under qualified people running the country which amounts to a below low standard Government. Politicians employ the advice of highly educated and intelligent people in making decisions why should they be dumb founded when making those decisions. I'm not saying they shouldn't be seeking the advisors solution but they should be educated enough and have the aptitude to come to the same conclusion at the same time or before their advisor. Most of the work done in running the country is done by civil servants who are very good at what they do. It takes a long time and a lot of training to have success in any job. The Irish demographic deserve to have a Taoiseach that will bring this country into its next 100 years without face palming.

Experts caused 2008. Experts caused the Iraq war.

The real problem is lack of real expertise in the human sciences, including economics.

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know when you made that journey, but the A55 has been completely rebuilt in recent years. North Wales was an industrial wasteland in the 1980s ( I know as I lived there at the time) but then again the same could be said for much of the North & Midlands as a result of the "de-industrialization" policies of the Thatcher government.

North Wales got a huge wake up call when Samsug setup a factor there. Because the workers were cheaper than in South Korea, which at the time was thought of as a third world country.

iLikeWaffles

Yourself isit wrote: »

Experts caused 2008. Experts caused the Iraq war.

The real problem is lack of real expertise in the human sciences, including economics.

So called experts! Couldn't agree more, the bar is very low for leadership there just is no threshold for others to follow and make things better. If there was some sort of degree course for anyone wanting to become a politician what I would expect from those who are studying it would be at least 20 years study before even setting foot on someone's doorstep with their polices. If it was like that it would be a much better Government for us because those who make way for the fresh out of college at 40 politician learned from those who have 40-50 years experience doing the job.

You can be pretty much guaranteed with the current government talk of refunding paid for water charges, if and when they issue the refund they will do it in the most expensive way possible. How about this - those who paid get exempt from motor tax or property tax or TV licence fee for the following year(s) one form and a reference number in their next P60 sorted!

Bridge93

I see it everywhere and saw it again on this thread. Where has this idea we are a corrupt state come from. It's factually incorrect despite what some might think. Our CPI score has us in the top 20 least corrupt countries on the planet

Ted111

Bridge93 wrote: »

Our CPI score has us in the top 20 least corrupt countries on the planet

I'd say we slipped some fella a few hundred quid in an envelope to get us up high on that list.

the_syco

Johnboner wrote: »

Seeing as how our government is so incompetent makes you think if it would have been better to stay part of the UK. Ireland is so badly managed when you compare it to similar mainland countries like Switzerland and Belgium, Ireland comes out as a bit of a joke.

Find it bizarre that OP says we should have stayed in the UK, so we'd turn out like non-UK country.... :pac:

Skommando

Bridge93 wrote: »

I see it everywhere and saw it again on this thread. Where has this idea we are a corrupt state come from. It's factually incorrect despite what some might think. Our CPI score has us in the top 20 least corrupt countries on the planet

Third world corruption is done in an extremely base, petty, and open way.
People openly bribe police officers when stopped for a traffic offense etc.
They openly give cash to officials when looking for state services, permits, documents etc.

Corruption in Ireland is much more under cover, and at a much higher level for much bigger payoff's, but just as prevalent and damaging.
It's all about who knows who, and a favour for favour owed. CPI can't measure that.

How many white colour criminals are ever convicted in Ireland, never mind do any time ?
In fact we have very very few laws against white colour crime in Ireland, and the ones we do have are almost never policed or enforced.

Avatar MIA

Skommando wrote: »

Corruption in Ireland is much more under cover, and at a much higher level for much bigger payoff's, but just as prevalent and damaging.
It's all about who knows who, and a favour for favour owed. CPI can't measure that.

Speaking of Irishisms... begrudgery, as in seeing someone doing well and thinking it's been achieved through under cover means.

Saipanne

They left behind an extensive rail and tram network. We did a great job with that legacy.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Skommando

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Speaking of Irishisms... begrudgery, as in seeing someone doing well and thinking it's been achieved through under cover means.

I'm doing very well in fact thanks. That's how I know about what goes on at a higher level. I could literally make millions more if I was corrupt enough, but I've still managed to be well off by keeping on the straight and narrow. Just because I'm in a position to cheat doesn't mean I have to.

I however think Ireland is worth improving (otherwise I wouldn't bother my arse posting), rather than pretending there is no room for improvement, and trying to silence anyone who suggests there is.

Charles Babbage

Saipanne wrote: »

They left behind an extensive rail and tram network. We did a great job with that legacy.

I think a fair basis of comparison here should be the rail and tram network in the part of Ireland the British continued to rule. How did things work out there?

the_syco

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Speaking of Irishisms... begrudgery, as in seeing someone doing well and thinking it's been achieved through under cover means.

Another Irishism; the respect for the "sly ho'er" who somehow gets something from the government for free. I view this as the reason that corrupt politicians get re-elected, when everyone else is scratching their heads wondering how did the corrupt soab get back into power.

iLikeWaffles

the_syco wrote: »

Another Irishism; the respect for the "sly ho'er" who somehow gets something from the government for free. I view this as the reason that corrupt politicians get re-elected, when everyone else is scratching their heads wondering how did the corrupt soab get back into power.

Get back into power because their continuance are kept happy and re-elect them.

tomwaterford

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Speaking of Irishisms... begrudgery, as in seeing someone doing well and thinking it's been achieved through under cover means.

This is ture.....all them tribunals didn't show up any corruption atal :rolleyes:

Peregrinus

Johnboner wrote: »

Seeing as how our government is so incompetent makes you think if it would have been better to stay part of the UK. Ireland is so badly managed when you compare it to similar mainland countries like Switzerland and Belgium, Ireland comes out as a bit of a joke.

The relevant comparison is not with Switzerland or Belgium. It's with how Ireland actually was governed while it was a part of the UK up to 1922 (hint: very badly, as almost all commentators noted at the time and since) and how part of Ireland was governed within the UK after 1922 (hint: very badly, as evidenced by the parlous history of bigotry, discrimination, oppression, violence and terrorism experienced by that unfortunate corner of the island).

We can plausibly imagine alternative histories in which Ireland might have been better governed in the years since 1922. But, on the evidence, keeping the whole country within the United Kingdom was very, very unlikely to produce that outcome.

elefant

Johnboner wrote: »

That would take a long time and I am not paid to do if but here are few quick ones.
Reduce the wages of all our politicians including taisoeach and president which interestingly get more than the US counterparts (Really more than the USA? Most powerful country in the world.
Make companies like eflow which operate the m50 and make a ridiculous amount of money to give a large cut to the government which will be spent on Dublin roads, cycle tracks, public transport (they make insane amount of money).

Most of these problems could be solved by having a good government that makes good decisions, unlike ours (Irish water) first thing that comes to mind. If other nations can do it that means we can do it, just takes examples from all the successful countries (Belgium, Switzerland, Sweden etc.) These nations don't have insane amount of natural resources so they don't really have an advantage over us but they are well managed and people are happy. The attitude with "oh nothing we can do let's just accept this terrible situation and be happy with it" will not get you far.

The roads in Belgium are horrendous.
You don't need signage to tell you you have crossed the Dutch/Belgian border; it's immediately apparent by the abrupt plummet in road quality.

But I suppose they did well to keep the road networks operational at all, considering not so long ago they beat out Cambodia for the grand record of length of time without a functioning government after an election.

murpho999

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Nothing to do with the Government every Irish person is to blame for putting up with them. How many votes did Enda get in his constituency 15-20k less!? and he becomes Taoiseach because he is party leader. If you have someone who has no merits for leadership and politicians that are sh*t at their job your going to have a sh*t Government.

It is up to all Irish people to make sure that our Government knows what they are doing. That are actually educated and qualified to do the job instead of just sh*t talking when election comes about and in doing so know that they will become Taoiseach because they are party leader. So why oh why do we vote in a general election locally only for the party leader to run the country waste of money.

We should all be voting for a Taoiseach together. That way we give a person that has the knowledge and the expertise the power to run the country. Put it this way if a Political Science Professor from Trinity College ran for Taoiseach and he was up against the many clowns currently in power who would we vote for.... It wouldn't be taking 70 days either!!

I don’t think you get how Irish politics and its system works. Firstly, it’s a fair and democratic system.

The public elect our TDs and then in turn a government is formed and a Taoiseach is elected by the Dail. That’s how a parliamentary system works.

What you are advocating is a presidential type system which would become American style personality based which I doubt people here would want.

What I would prefer to see is external non-political ministers appointed rather than politicians being ministers . So for example a CEO/CFO/Economist could be minister of finance rather than it being passed around to politicians with no relevant experience,

Also, this idea that we have bad government here just because they have to pay taxes or charges is wrong and ignores the good work done by the government over the last few years to get the economy back on track after a massive crisis.

There is a real element of ‘grass greener’ on the other side. Why does the OP think Belgium is any better. Have they been there? Many problems there and infrastructure is crumbling.

I’m very happy that we are not part of the UK and hopefully never will be again. We have achieved a lot over the last 100 years and still have a long way to go. The British really left us in an awful mess , and I do not see how going back to them would make us better off.

MeatTwoVeg

I think our standard of living and Government services would be far higher if we'd remained in the UK.

MeatTwoVeg

Charles Babbage wrote: »

I think a fair basis of comparison here should be the rail and tram network in the part of Ireland the British continued to rule. How did things work out there?

Far better than in the Republic actually.

They haven't pissed away billions on an outmoded interurban railway network.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

MeatTwoVeg

Patww79 wrote: »

It's a complete backwater who's industry is decades behind.

What is everyones obsession with rail about?

I agree with you regarding the strange obsession with rail amongst Irish people. It's illogical and anachronistic.

I've worked in Belfast however for a number of years and the place is buzzing. Huge investment in infrastructure. Great services. It's miles ahead of Dublin.

Maximus Alexander

Johnboner wrote: »

What about the hospitals being third world country level (probably worse) a man died a few backs because he was waiting at the hospital for so long.
What about the Irish water flip flop. Millions wasted.
What about the poor condition of our roads.
What about our terrible public transport.
What about our congestions.
No proper cycle tracks.
Extortionate motor taxes.
Extortionate insurance prices.

That's all whataboutery.

elefant

I love the reductio ad absurdum of moaners comparing anything in Ireland to 'third-world country' levels.

Those Somalian hospitals are having it tough cutting A+E waiting times too I hear.

murpho999

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

I think our standard of living and Government services would be far higher if we'd remained in the UK.

Our standard of living is very high.

What make people think that UK services are better than here?

All people on here who say that we have 'third world' services, roads, hospitals etc have clearly never been to a Third World country.

Mortpourvelo

We'd have the NHS.

We give the rich entitled D4 type bastard's kids FREE GP care and yet working people have to suffer as they can;t raise 50 quid for the doctors.

MeatTwoVeg

murpho999 wrote: »

What make people think that UK services are better than here?

Maybe because some of us have lived in the UK and accessed their services and can directly compare.

The Irish health service is a joke compared to the NHS for example.