Ireland would have been a better place under British rule?

Edgarfrndly

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

Pros

• NHS.
• Buses that run on time.
• Cheap beer.

Cons

• Heightened target for terrorist attacks.
• Stupendous amounts of tax wasted on seemingly futile wars.
• London-driven politics, with a situation similar to Scotland where a Tory government with little or no MP's in our country, would decide the fate of our country. Ergo, democracy eroded.
• Neutrality ruined.
• Diluted identity.
• Probably being pulled out of the EU, whereas I suspect a majority of Irish people would have voted to stay.
• Culture & Arts funding probably reduced greatly. Irish language well and truly dusted.
• Every second generation, we'd see our streets turned into warzones in an effort to achieve independence.

I mean, I'm trying to weigh up the good and the bad - but as someone who doesn't drink and hates public transport, I think I'll stay independent for now.

The NHS is ****.

Johnboner

Johnboner wrote: »

Germany was better off under Hitler rule, sounds ridiculous but it is true. That is until hitler decided to invade Poland. German economy was absolutely terrible but he brought it back up.

Wasn't that due to their massive rearmanent programme and quantatative easing?

dd972

Being a Lander of Germany or an off-shore province of Norway would surely be better, if the 1916 leaders weren't executed things might have calmed and some sort of quasi-independent Home Rule might have staved off the Orange statelet that shot itself in the foot, however a proper all-island civil war was still a major possibility.

One_Of_Shanks

dd972 wrote: »

, if the 1916 leaders weren't executed things might have calmed and some sort of quasi-independent Home Rule might have staved off the Orange statelet that shot itself in the foot, however a proper all-island civil war was still a major possibility.

Eloquently phrased. You can almost hear the fields of barley rippling in the background.

Berserker

rickfisher1988 wrote: »

We have created a dynamic and vibrant economy. Criticize politicians all your like, but we have a healthy and innovative economy.

Multinationals who set up base here for tax reasons have generated an economy in the RoI. The politicians merely facilitated the implementation of a vision that was presented to them by some Irish-American businessmen. Most of the current shower, particularly those on the left, would refuse to implement it, if it was presented to them today.

Johnboner wrote: »

Don't forget our rents which are an absolute bargain.

Property is a national obsession in Ireland. Not sure what the source of it is; might have something to do with your famine but owning and investing in property is part of the national psyche. Can't see how the RoI being under British rule would help put a stop to the nonsense that we see in the property market.

Collie D wrote: »

Yeah, because we had loads of say in things before the creation of the State

Dublin was the second city of the empire up until the creation of the State. Stop trying to play the poor-mouth. Dublin had plenty of power and privilege prior to 1916.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

tomwaterford

Johnboner wrote: »

I could name things all night

Such as?

Collie D

Berserker wrote: »

Dublin was the second city of the empire up until the creation of the State. Stop trying to play the poor-mouth. Dublin had plenty of power and privilege prior to 1916.

Ah, grand so until those uppity rebels threw their toys from the pram Paddy was an equal. Got it.

Capt'n Midnight

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

Pros

• NHS.
• Buses that run on time.
• Cheap beer.

Some buses run on time. The railways have been overcrowded and late for generations.
And in many places the costs of public transport are extortionate

Beer is cheap but water is expensive

Rainman16

Collie D wrote: »

Self-governance which while you may think is not great is a lot better than someone in Westminster making decisions about a place and people they don't really give a **** about. The north and Scotland are already examples of this.

Yeah because having a woman in Germany making our decisions is so much better.

buried

"Make Ireland GREAT Britain AGAIN.
They got TREMENDOUS TALENT.
We're gonna Build a wall around Dublin and give the rest to TESCO.
Its going to be FANTASTIC people.
And anyone who doesn't like it.......there. will. be. CONSEQUENCES
Fantastic Famine Ships will cart away the anti-progress terrorists to China.
That's right.
DRAIN THE SWAMP.
SELL THE SHANNON.
O'CONNELL STREET?? Make that a CORONATION STREET
GEALTACHT?? Make that a KRISTALLNACHT
The GAA????? KILL THEM ALL
TREMENDOUS
Let ME tell you.
I won't pay a cent for it either.
You'll see.."

RobertKK

We are actually doing very well for a small country and in things like the human development index which measures a number of things that affect quality of life, we are among the very highest in the world, last ranking put us in joint 6th with Germany.
The UK and Belgium were below us...

Berserker

Rainman16 wrote: »

Yeah because having a woman in Germany making our decisions is so much better.

I'd add the USA to that too. They treated the likes of Obama and Clinton like they were demigods.

RobertKK

Collie D wrote: »

Ah, grand so until those uppity rebels threw their toys from the pram Paddy was an equal. Got it.

The problem for the Irish really started when you went beyond the Pale...

pragmatic1

You're ****in insane OP. Under the British, at the height of their empire, we were one of the poorest nations in the world. Not Europe, the world.

wakka12

Yeh then compare Ireland to some other poorer mainland countries like serbia and moldova and things look a bit more peachy don't they

wakka12

Also , it may have been better if Ireland were treated more fairly within this hypothetical scenario, such as how scotland and wales are presently. But no Ireland would not be better today if things had were remained how they were, we were a colony, a source of income for england , thats all we were to them they did not care about irish people at all. Any infrastructural improvements made were simply to produce money more efficiently in Ireland for the empire

pragmatic1

pragmatic1 wrote: »

You're ****in insane OP. Under the British, at the height of their empire, we were one of the poorest nations in the world. Not Europe, the world.

Rubbish! Ireland had a similar level of inequality as most other countries at the time endured, the 0.1% owned 90% of everything.

blueser

buried wrote: »

"Make Ireland GREAT Britain AGAIN.
They got TREMENDOUS TALENT.
We're gonna Build a wall around Dublin and give the rest to TESCO.
Its going to be FANTASTIC people.
And anyone who doesn't like it.......there. will. be. CONSEQUENCES
Fantastic Famine Ships will cart away the anti-progress terrorists to China.
That's right.
DRAIN THE SWAMP.
SELL THE SHANNON.
O'CONNELL STREET?? Make that a CORONATION STREET
GEALTACHT?? Make that a KRISTALLNACHT
The GAA????? KILL THEM ALL
TREMENDOUS
Let ME tell you.
I won't pay a cent for it either.
You'll see.."

You'd want to get that caps lock key sorted out.

:rolleyes:

Skommando

Scotland done very well under the brits, thanks to their policy of serving rural areas as well as urban ones.

buried

blueser wrote: »

You'd want to get that caps lock key sorted out.

:rolleyes:

NASTY keyboard

Tin Foil Hat

Johnboner wrote: »

Seeing as how our government is so incompetent makes you think if it would have been better to stay part of the UK. Ireland is so badly managed when you compare it to similar mainland countries like Switzerland and Belgium, Ireland comes out as a bit of a joke.

They'd have used us as a dump for the crap that comes out of Sellafield.

AgileMyth

Johnboner wrote: »

Seeing as how our government is so incompetent makes you think if it would have been better to stay part of the UK. Ireland is so badly managed when you compare it to similar mainland countries like Switzerland and Belgium, Ireland comes out as a bit of a joke.

Having lived in Belgium I strongly disagree. The entire southern half has just been completely forgotten about for the past 30 years.

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

Rubbish! Ireland had a similar level of inequality as most other countries at the time endured, the 0.1% owned 90% of everything.

Skommando wrote: »

Scotland done very well under the brits, thanks to their policy of serving rural areas as well as urban ones.

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2014/05/2852/298170

It is claimed that currently 432 private land owners own 50% of the private land in rural Scotland. The latest estimate of Scotland's population is 5,327,000 , so this means that half of a fundamental resource for the country is owned by 0.008% of the population

The likely re-concentration of land ownership which has taken place over the last 40-50 years is partly explained in terms of the ownership of good farmland, with, for example, about 75% of the farms sold in 2013 being bought by other farmers.[11] The activity of the Danish businessman Anders Povlsen, who has purchased six large estates in recent years (to become Scotland's second largest land owner with around 65,000 ha), has also contributed to this apparent re-concentration.

That's 650Km2 , two thirds the size of County Dublin which is 922 Km2.



Map of top 50 estates from https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/10/scotland-land-rights

Herb Powell

Johnboner wrote: »

Seeing as how our government is so incompetent makes you think if it would have been better to stay part of the UK. Ireland is so badly managed when you compare it to similar mainland countries like Switzerland and Belgium, Ireland comes out as a bit of a joke.

Countries like Switzerland and Belgium, but not the UK, right?

NikoTopps

of course we wouldn't

steddyeddy

OK let's treat your question seriously. Have we a model for Ireland under British rule? Yes pre-indepence rep of Ireland and current day Northern Ireland. Let's examine NI .

Their economy is atrocious, their society is fractured along sectarian lines and hate plays a big part of their politics. No, the facts say we're better out of English rule.

Pherekydes

Bring back the Penal Laws.

tomwaterford

Pherekydes wrote: »

Bring back the Penal Laws.

Sounds like something from a brexit proposal

Flex

Berserker wrote: »

Dublin was the second city of the empire up until the creation of the State. Stop trying to play the poor-mouth. Dublin had plenty of power and privilege prior to 1916.

Just on this particular point, as I love history, Dublin was the second largest city in the British Empire and 5th or 6th largest city in all of Europe in 1800, prior to the Union and considered one of the best planned and designed cities of the time. By 1910 Dublin was irrelevant (wasnt even the largest city in Ireland anymore, Belfast had outgrown it as it had barely grown since 1800) and the living conditions were dreadful. A commission to report into it found that 40% of the population lived in slums and the infant mortality rate was the highest in Europe, and worse even than Calcutta.

Beyond that, looking at census reports for Ireland at the time the stats on social and economic conditions in the country were unbelievable. 80% of the people of Connacht lived in huts made of mud and stick insulated with animal faeces up to the 1850's, and reading the journals and accounts of people who came and visited Ireland from Europe gives brutal insight into how dreadful the country was through the 19th century and how it steadily got worse as time went on.

While British rule overall was bad, but had some good points, Ireland's time in the United Kingdom was catastrophic (I read a fact that Ireland is the only country on earth were the population is lower today than it was in 1840). We were never treated like Scotland or Wales, we were a colony. Perhaps things may be different nowadays with the present political landscape, but thats hypothetical. Going off of the facts and experience, the answer to whether Ireland would have been better off staying in the UK is no for me (difficult thing for me to say too given how utterly **** our politicians are).