Dublin Airport Noise Nightmare

lawred2

JustAThought wrote: »

In the usual twisty planning process, planning permission was finally given by An Bord Pleanala to build a new runway (North) in 2007 - with 31 conditions attached - including arguably the most important one - no night flights between 11pm and 7am. Under the banner of EU compliance the government is looking to cede control of this process to a private profit making commercial organisation - the Irish Aviation Authority - which surprisingly is not under government control or accountable to it - it is just seen as an 'expert". Unsurprisingly, the IAA wish to have the conditions of the planning permission overthrown and run planes into the old and soon to be built new runway night and day. Every plane that lands or flies overhead will pay them a fee. The noise for many houses in this NEW flightpath will be so bad that the DAA are "secretly"/privately approaching individual homeowners to propose they buy their homes from them - not CPO, but buy at a price they determine. Thousands more homes will become unusable as functioning places to work, play and most importantly sleep because of the noise of low flying planes that our runway cannot even hold yet as it has not been designed to take their weight and engine capacity. But the new runway North, and its new flightpath will - and they are about to start building it - ten years later, when everyone has almost forgotten about it. The legislation ceding control to the Irish Aviation Authority is about to be brought in by "the government" The Dublin Airport Authoriity has mapped out some houses that may qualify for noise insulation - there is a big difference between their noise allocation and that of the planning/fingal, and the levels approved by the world health organisation. Did you know that this was all going on? Do you know if your house will be in the new flightpath. Have you looked to see if you will be affected? Did you take part in the quietly advertised consultation that was done by a private third party business? Or are you just hoping your home, school, etc will not be affected by screaming planes 24/7?

I'll call bullsh!t on that

JustAThought

dak wrote: »

Noise affects some more than others . If you are desensitised too it you don't have much to worry about ... But bear a thought for others who are sensitive to noise and especially the health effects on the cognitive and physiological of children that the NORAH report has issued in relation to the effects of exposure to continuous aircraft noise .

What does the NoRAH report say?

dak

JustAThought wrote: »

What does the NoRAH report say?

You can read up on it here!

http://www.laermstudie.de/en/norah-study/overview/

ted1

JustAThought wrote: »

Tell that to your children & your boss when he's giving you your P45 because your performance is so bad as you hav't had a good nights solid uninterrupted sleep for a month. Someone Has listed a video of a plan taking off here - now imagine that waking you up ten times an hour or screaming above your house as it descends to land on its new route home.

The Chinese & Russians have always used sleep deprivation as a form of tourtue - invisible & inexpensive - leave no marrs & hard to prove in court. What hope will an everyday person or family have against this when/if it is forced in.

You must be a very very light sleeping , because that sort of noise quickly becomes white noise that goes unnoticed

Sleep deprivation torture techniques are very different.

AlanG

JustAThought wrote: »

A lot of new homes and people are - I suggest - going to be really f****** over this. The lease of whom will be Tyrrelstown, Swords, the citycentre, Glenageary, Dunlaoghaire, and currently affected Beaumount/Artane - and thats on the old smaller runway -

Tyrrelstown is directly under the existing flight path and the noise is not a major problem. When the new runway is built it will be better as a lot of off peak flights will now pass 1.5km north of Tyrrelstown.
Portmarnock village up towards Dunnes is the only major population area that will be seriously impacted but the other end of the village around the Links will see a reduction in overhead flights.

JustAThought

ted1 wrote: »

You must be a very very light sleeping , because that sort of noise quickly becomes white noise that goes unnoticed

Sleep deprivation torture techniques are very different.

Being woken up repeatedly and not being able to get a straight nighs sleep or even an un-interrupted two or three hours sleep over periods of weeks or months is bad enough thanks. I wonder now that RSA is running campaigns on how dangerous it is to drive when tired or sleep deprived if the DAA or Irish Aviation Authority will be held accountable & able to be sued if their flight seceduling at night causes people to drive & be involved in a crash. Particularly if there is a record of them having complained about it?

Stheno

JustAThought wrote: »

Being woken up repeatedly and not being able to get a straight nighs sleep or even an un-interrupted two or three hours sleep over periods of weeks or months is bad enough thanks. I wonder now that RSA is running campaigns on how dangerous it is to drive when tired or sleep deprived if the DAA or Irish Aviation Authority will be held accountable & able to be sued if their flight seceduling at night causes people to drive & be involved in a crash. Particularly if there is a record of them having complained about it?

You do know there is a conspiracy theories forum?

Alun

Growing up we moved to a new house approx 100m from the M6 motorway in England, and after a few months didn't notice it one bit. In fact, when we went on holiday, to rural Wales for example, I couldn't sleep as it was too quiet!

Chain Smoker

Do houses near airports typically sell for a bit less than other areas equally close to the city? I'd imagine they do and have done for decades and decades, which would entail accepting the negatives of buying a place near an airport?

AlanG

JustAThought wrote: »

The noise for many houses in this NEW flightpath will be so bad that the DAA are "secretly"/privately approaching individual homeowners to propose they buy their homes from them - not CPO, but buy at a price they determine.

This is no secret as it has been in the papers or some time. The practice has been going on for years. No one has to sell unless there is a CPO. Lots of organisations with growth plans do this. The GAA buy houses around Croke Park, Trinity college have bought up lots of Pearse street and the IRFU own lots of property around Landsdown Road.

JustAThought

dak wrote: »

You can read up on it here!

http://www.laermstudie.de/en/norah-study/overview/

Interesting - scientific report based on long term study & evaluation of over a million people living near airports including Berlin, Frankfurt, Berne in Switzerland & others - long term affects of airport noise exposute included depression, stress, developmental delays in childrens learning and cardiovascular problems - wouldn't have guessed the last one.

Kintarō Hattori

Live in Balbriggan myself and we're under the flightpath for Dublin airport. There are plenty of planes knocking about and the coastguard helicopter. Honestly unless you were trying to take notice of them.... you just don't notice them. Maybe on an odd summers night when things are particularly quiet outside and you don't have the television on and have a window of three open... you might. Other than that... it's all good.

Riesen_Meal

I'm from Santry and my family are from Cloghran, although I now live out in the north county, I suppose I will always be used to being so close to the airport, plane noise has always been part of our lives...

I have to say I have noticed them out my way taking a slightly different approach towards the runway in the last few weeks and they did seem lower than usual (from out here) but again I've always been used to them and won't be too bothered...

Allinall

[quote="JustAThought;101846862} ......if the DAA or Irish Aviation Authority will be held accountable & able to be sued if their flight seceduling at night causes people to drive & be involved in a crash. [/quote]

WTF?

That's ridiculous taken to a whole new level.

endacl

JustAThought wrote: »

In the usual twisty planning process, planning permission was finally given by An Bord Pleanala to build a new runway (North) in 2007

Permission has just been given to build a runway nearly 10 years ago?

That is a twisty planning process indeed...

Fighting Tao

JustAThought wrote: »

Interesting - scientific report based on long term study & evaluation of over a million people living near airports including Berlin, Frankfurt, Berne in Switzerland & others - long term affects of airport noise exposute included depression, stress, developmental delays in childrens learning and cardiovascular problems - wouldn't have guessed the last one.

To be fair. Those long term affects could apply to anywhere in Ireland these days and not just near an airport. If you don't want an airport near you then move somewhere there isn't one. However, you'd still need to watch out for the chemtrails!

ted1

JustAThought wrote: »

Being woken up repeatedly and not being able to get a straight nighs sleep or even an un-interrupted two or three hours sleep over periods of weeks or months is bad enough thanks. I wonder now that RSA is running campaigns on how dangerous it is to drive when tired or sleep deprived if the DAA or Irish Aviation Authority will be held accountable & able to be sued if their flight seceduling at night causes people to drive & be involved in a crash. Particularly if there is a record of them having complained about it?

If you live under a flight path you shouldn't be getting woken, you should be accustomed to it.
Get checked for sleep apnea.

Maximus Alexander

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I live 30km from the airport. There has always been a flight path over the area but over the last year they have been flying at a very low altitude late at night and early in the morning.

This isn't even a not in my backyard situation. My backyard is an hour's drive away from the airport and it is affecting my sleep

Who drives at 30kph?

tobsey

JustAThought wrote: »

The noise for many houses in this NEW flightpath will be so bad that the DAA are "secretly"/privately approaching individual homeowners to propose they buy their homes from them - not CPO, but buy at a price they determine.

Nonsense. There's nothing secret about it. The buyout is offered at a rate above market value. Also it's available for three years after the completion of the new runway, so people will have time to decide if the new runway is adversely affecting them.

JustAThought wrote: »

Thousands more homes will become unusable as functioning places to work, play and most importantly sleep because of the noise of low flying planes that our runway cannot even hold yet as it has not been designed to take their weight and engine capacity.

The conditions of the operation of the new runway state that the existing southern runway should be preferred when planes are taking off towards the east, or landing from the east. Either runway can be used if taking off or landing to the west. The new runway will have even less impact on major residential areas to the west because it is further north of places like Tyrrelstown and Blanchardstown, and still well west of Swords.

JustAThought wrote: »

But the new runway North, and its new flightpath will - and they are about to start building it - ten years later, when everyone has almost forgotten about it. The legislation ceding control to the Irish Aviation Authority is about to be brought in by "the government" The Dublin Airport Authoriity has mapped out some houses that may qualify for noise insulation - there is a big difference between their noise allocation and that of the planning/fingal, and the levels approved by the world health organisation.

Planes are a lot quieter now than they were when the original planning application was submitted. However DAA are maintaining the same offer for sound proofing an buyout to all homes who would have been over the limits in 2007, even if they won't be over the limit with the newer modern planes.

JustAThought wrote: »

Did you know that this was all going on? Do you know if your house will be in the new flightpath. Have you looked to see if you will be affected? Did you take part in the quietly advertised consultation that was done by a private third party business? Or are you just hoping your home, school, etc will not be affected by screaming planes 24/7?

I live in Feltrim. The new flight path will be half the distance between my house and the current runway. I'm not remotely concerned.

JustAThought wrote: »

haha - thats what you think - Dunlaoghaire, Glenageary and city centre will be affected - depending on the deviation paths which will be allowed from the new runway - 15% in each direction
:eek:

They will not be impacted in anyway by the new runway. Even if the existing runway has a new flight path which diverges by 15 degrees it still won't come close to the city centre or South Dublin. The existing cross runway, which is used when there are unusual crosswinds or when maintenance is being carried out, will probably be used even less. It will only be required when the winds are not east/west and won't be required any more when there's maintenance.

JustAThought wrote: »

no - it dosn't work that way. The Dublin Airport Authority and new Irish Aviation Authority who will become the new control agency have set their indications of noise levels at significantly different onees to the ones fingal council used when doing their presentation of facts to An Bord Pleanala. The noise levels proposed by the DAA/IAA are already much higher that those recommended by the world health organisation. At present the DAA are negotiating with some houses and homeowners WHO APPROACH THEM or seek to negotiate with them to buy out their houses or to soundproof their homes. However if people do not know they might be affected they cannot sign up to the buy-outs, or ask to be included, or contest the figures, or negotiate.

As said above, they have three years after the completion to avail of the compensation schemes.

JustAThought wrote: »

A lot of new homes and people are - I suggest - going to be really f****** over this. The lease of whom will be Tyrrelstown, Swords, the citycentre, Glenageary, Dunlaoghaire, and currently affected Beaumount/Artane - and thats on the old smaller runway - the new one will be double the length, take much greater capacity planes, and the city will be facing flights landing and taking off every 3 minutes - with noise levels not yet experienced because the planes cannot yet land in this country as our runway is not up to par yet. The new one will be built to withstand greater size planes, landing and flying over different parts of the city, with different routes and deviations from the routes allowed - therefore more and different houses affected. It is going to be a nightmare.

Nonsense. The runway is nowhere near twice as long as the existing one. Again as the majority of planes approaching and leaving will be to the west, it won't be an issue for many people.

dak wrote: »

Under Internation Civil Aviation Organisation safety rules where 2 runways are less than 2km apart ( Northrunway will be 1.6km from current one ) then planes have to diverge by 15 degrees immediately on take off ...so some parts of swords and many other areas surrounding the airport may just start to notice an increase in noise

The vast majority of those areas are very rural so very few will be affected. Certainly not Swords. The closest areas are around Ridgewood and Boroimhe and they are over a kilometer away. None of Swords will be affected by the flight paths.

JustAThought wrote: »

Tell that to your children & your boss when he's giving you your P45 because your performance is so bad as you hav't had a good nights solid uninterrupted sleep for a month. Someone Has listed a video of a plan taking off here - now imagine that waking you up ten times an hour or screaming above your house as it descends to land on its new route home.

The Chinese & Russians have always used sleep deprivation as a form of tourtue - invisible & inexpensive - leave no marrs & hard to prove in court. What hope will an everyday person or family have against this when/if it is forced in.

You are not adding any credibility to your argument by spouting that absolute rubbish

dak

"The vast majority of those areas are very rural so very few will be affected. Certainly not Swords. The closest areas are around Ridgewood and Boroimhe and they are over a kilometer away. None of Swords will be affected by the flight paths."

DAK RESPONSE

Try telling that to people in Seabury and Malahide ( and no I dont live there ) In the Swords area it would appear that Boroimhe , Ridgewood and Drynam will be affected mostly .

Category A & B aircraft ( turbo props ) currently turn earlier than jets and if the current departure flight paths were transposed 1.6km north to the new runway there will be more areas in Swords affected by eastward departures .

The current flight path can be seen on page 8 of the link below.

https://issuu.com/north-runway/docs/consultation_on_flight_paths_and_ch

tobsey

dak wrote: »

"The vast majority of those areas are very rural so very few will be affected. Certainly not Swords. The closest areas are around Ridgewood and Boroimhe and they are over a kilometer away. None of Swords will be affected by the flight paths."

DAK RESPONSE

Try telling that to people in Seabury and Malahide ( and no I dont live there ) In the Swords area it would appear that Boroimhe , Ridgewood and Drynam will be affected mostly .

Category A & B aircraft ( turbo props ) currently turn earlier than jets and if the current departure flight paths were transposed 1.6km north to the new runway there will be more areas in Swords affected by eastward departures .

The current flight path can be seen on page 8 of the link below.

https://issuu.com/north-runway/docs/consultation_on_flight_paths_and_ch

Yes eastward departures, but there are very few of those because the prevailing winds are usually westerly. The planes take off into the wind so most take offs head inland before climbing and turning back eastward.

dak

tobsey wrote: »

Yes eastward departures, but there are very few of those because the prevailing winds are usually westerly. The planes take off into the wind so most take offs head inland before climbing and turning back eastward.

It used to be 90% westerly and 10% Easterly but that has changed to a 70/30% split in recent years ..climate change no doubt !

tobsey

I'll trust you on those figures but it doesn't feel like it. There seems to be a constant stream of planes landing when I look out my front door to the south. I rarely see them taking off.

josip

Planes reasonably often pass over Glenageary, Dalkey, Killiney.
Our house is underneath the flight path.
They're not particularly high, I'm sure someone from aviation could inform how high.
It's not a dull background white noise, it's a very distinctive high pitched Turbofan whine that I can clearly hear even though I'm fairly deaf.
And I fcuking love hearing each and every single one of them!
They remind me how great humans are that we can design something that weighs 50+ tons that stays up in the sky.

suicide_circus

I was talking to a couple of guys who have lived in the environs of dublin airport for 30/40 years and they said that the engine noise now is nothing compared to the sound of the old British Airways VC10s taking off back in the day

Richard Hillman

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Who drives at 30kph?

30km is the distance overhead. It would be a lot more if you were to take the M50 or through the City Centre to drive. There are no straight roads to the airport

vmb

Does somebody know where is the new flight path published?

Capt'n Midnight

Option A - Noise cancelling headphones.


Option B - Fly in some Tu-95's so people can hear something loud.
11 megawatts per engine driving 5.6 meter diameter counter-rotating propellers with a supersonic shock waves coming off the tips.
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u249/corsairoz/IMG_1098.jpg

It's so loud it can be picked up by sonar arrays on the ocean floor.

weldoninhio

JustAThought wrote: »

Being woken up repeatedly and not being able to get a straight nighs sleep or even an un-interrupted two or three hours sleep over periods of weeks or months is bad enough thanks. I wonder now that RSA is running campaigns on how dangerous it is to drive when tired or sleep deprived if the DAA or Irish Aviation Authority will be held accountable & able to be sued if their flight seceduling at night causes people to drive & be involved in a crash. Particularly if there is a record of them having complained about it?

You've heard of the hours that Doctors, especially Junior Doctors work?? Beaumont haven't been sued for any crashes that I can recall.

Capt'n Midnight

JustAThought wrote: »

Interesting - scientific report based on long term study & evaluation of over a million people living near airports including Berlin, Frankfurt, Berne in Switzerland & others - long term affects of airport noise exposute included depression, stress, developmental delays in childrens learning and cardiovascular problems - wouldn't have guessed the last one.

Is that report behind a paywall ?

Have they done a similar report for trains ? Because people who live on the wrong side of the tracks show similar health problems.