Dairy chit chat II

visatorro

Timmaay wrote: »

Would I be mad to be thinking about growing maize without plastic? Not under pressure with land this year, so I could grow an extra acre or so and save the cost of plastic, in a decent location here, a few of the neighbours seem to get away nicely enough without using plastic.

Seen a crop sown recently without plastic and it looks under serious pressure. No real 'heat' yet. Not saying it won't recover fully but it's dear enough without being a stunted/damaged crop imo.

visatorro

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

2€ a gallon I think is what is said there worth

I only got a euro! Now tank was obsolete so maybe two euro for a resalable one mightnt be far wrong

visatorro

Does anyone hoof pair the entire milking herd yearly? I was thinking about it as Iv a good few that could do with abit of attention. Not dragging themselves around just claws abit pointy for the majority.

Mooooo

Timmaay wrote: »

Would I be mad to be thinking about growing maize without plastic? Not under pressure with land this year, so I could grow an extra acre or so and save the cost of plastic, in a decent location here, a few of the neighbours seem to get away nicely enough without using plastic.

Anyone local who grows with any consistency down here uses plastic, it's more of an insurance I reckon, you may get away with it in a good year but the difference in a less than ideal year is night and day. A lot being set this week down here

Mooooo

visatorro wrote: »

Does anyone hoof pair the entire milking herd yearly? I was thinking about it as Iv a good few that could do with abit of attention. Not dragging themselves around just claws abit pointy for the majority.

I don't but was talk8ng to someone who did before and they reckon just do the ones with any issue, paring the ones not lame only softened the feet he reckoned and has less lame since he only did those with issues to begin with

Water John

Timmaay may get away, in Wicklow, with what farmers in Cork would not get away with. Have to use plastic in the south, more wind and rain.

Timmaay

Mooooo wrote: »

Anyone local who grows with any consistency down here uses plastic, it's more of an insurance I reckon, you may get away with it in a good year but the difference in a less than ideal year is night and day. A lot being set this week down here

Usually doesn't start till late April here, often into may.

On another topic, anything I need to watch out for dry cows on grass? Have most the late calvers here out trying to graze down thick heavy old covers of grass (well except any ones in very good bcs). No minerals being feed to them (usually use bag minerals put on the silage), 1st one calved down without too much hassle a few days ago, she didn't have huge bag of milk would be the only concern.

Mooooo

Timmaay wrote: »

Usually doesn't start till late April here, often into may.

On another topic, anything I need to watch out for dry cows on grass? Have most the late calvers here out trying to graze down thick heavy old covers of grass (well except any ones in very good bcs). No minerals being feed to them (usually use bag minerals put on the silage), 1st one calved down without too much hassle a few days ago, she didn't have huge bag of milk would be the only concern.

No harm to put out a bucket maybe? If the ground got a lot of slurry or k in bag form this spring keep an eye on them I guess. Prob no harm to be at grass in terms of diet as less change post calving so may take to milking better. Was gonna put the rest of mine out but only suitable spot is a bit away from yard and there is only silage on the ramp of the pit so better to use it than leaving it there only to be dumped

Timmaay

http://www.wisfarmer.com/story/news/2017/04/07/mercy-mailbox-dairies-dropping-farms/100159164/

Sober enough reading!

pedigree 6

Timmaay wrote: »

http://www.wisfarmer.com/story/news/2017/04/07/mercy-mailbox-dairies-dropping-farms/100159164/

Sober enough reading!

Sad reading alright but you wonder is there more to that than meets the eye.
Usually when the heart drops in producing milk, standards and attention can drop too.

I consider myself small fry milking cows here but I have to play to my strengths and the most important of these is having better quality milk i.e. tbc and cell count than the next guy. It's easier I feel to control these things and disease potential in smaller herds spread out in the countryside than one large herd lumped together.

I've said it before in the big week on the farm thread when grasstomilk was wondering why the show didn't base from a farm like Browne's. The simple answer is that our whole marketing of dairy produce here and abroad is by showcasing the average family farm that still operates here. This is a unique selling point to here and different from the factory/company farms that operate around the rest of the world that's why Bord Bia use it.

While teagasc show young farmers the large scale farms of new Zealand and the U.S. as something to aim for, the marketing bodies go the different path and use the small family farm image to sell ag produce while it could have come from the larger company dairy producers now springing up here.

So what does the future hold for the small producer here?
Who knows but all you can do is play to your strengths.

visatorro

We're only one pea in a massive pod really!!

Anyone see countryfile at the weekend? On about making farmers return to the number of cows pre quota abolition. In holland

kowtow

pedigree 6 wrote: »

.... This is a unique selling point to here and different from the factory/company farms that operate around the rest of the world that's why Bord Bia use it.

While teagasc show young farmers the large scale farms of new Zealand and the U.S. as something to aim for, the marketing bodies go the different path and use the small family farm image to sell ag produce while it could have come from the larger company dairy producers now springing up here.

So what does the future hold for the small producer here?
Who knows but all you can do is play to your strengths.

There's unquestionably a tension between the two which will have to resolve one way or another.. and I hope for all our sakes it somehow falls in favour of our way of farming (which is deeply rooted in our culture and our history, and therefore belongs to us) rather than in commodity and synthetic products - where family farming really only goes as deep as the slogan on the label.

White Clover

visatorro wrote: »

Does anyone hoof pair the entire milking herd yearly? I was thinking about it as Iv a good few that could do with abit of attention. Not dragging themselves around just claws abit pointy for the majority.

It's a good idea to check the herd annually but this is the wrong time of year to do it. It's best to do it when they are housed 3 or 4 weeks at the start of the winter to give them time to recover while they are not doing much walking. If you do them now as they are facing into months of walking you could end up with more lameness.

pedigree 6

kowtow wrote: »

There's unquestionably a tension between the two which will have to resolve one way or another.. and I hope for all our sakes it somehow falls in favour of our way of farming (which is deeply rooted in our culture and our history, and therefore belongs to us) rather than in commodity and synthetic products - where family farming really only goes as deep as the slogan on the label.

The future for this country is what Britain is now.
The only difference is the small land parcels and owners hold at all costs attitude here and renting and leasing land in this country.
You'll have the one block of land farmer who'll be grazing all they can and then split block farmers who'll have to zerograze and have more cows indoors and basically going high cost all year round milking and looking for liquid contracts.
Exact same is happening in Britain at the moment.

The next bad milk price fall will have the high cost systems in trouble unless they have a rock solid milk contract and good bps.

If the bps was done away with, this country would nearly become New Zealand overnight. With land sales and even more land turning to dairy as the only show in town. However even in New Zealand there are still niche small producers especially close to urban centres doing their own thing. So at the end of the day it's usually the nut driving the operation is the deciding factor.

That's my brain fart for the day.:pac:

Buford T. Justice XIX

kowtow wrote: »

There's unquestionably a tension between the two which will have to resolve one way or another.. and I hope for all our sakes it somehow falls in favour of our way of farming (which is deeply rooted in our culture and our history, and therefore belongs to us) rather than in commodity and synthetic products - where family farming really only goes as deep as the slogan on the label.

I don't know, kowtow.

That farming type always reminds me of a hoary old weather-beaten farmer with a flock of ruddy cheeked, red haired children with wild hair and short trousers with hobnailed boots and socks up to their knees. In short, an image of farming from the 50s?

Consumers seem to get off on the image of that family working with their hands all day in all weather doing something that they won't/can't do for a level of pay they would laugh at while continually seeking cheaper and cheaper food and not really giving a damn where it come from or how it's produced.

I can't seem to match the ideal of their farms with the reality of what they chose to consume?

yosemitesam1

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

while continually seeking cheaper and cheaper food and not really giving a damn where it come from or how it's produced.

I can't seem to match the ideal of their farms with the reality of what they chose to consume?

I think that's not 100% down to the consumer e.g. why would anyone pay extra to support branded milk when they know it could be the same farmer's milk in the own brand carton beside it, the consumer is so far removed with no connection to either milk what are they supposed to do but buy the cheaper option.

kowtow

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I can't seem to match the ideal of their farms with the reality of what they chose to consume?

I think there is conflicting evidence in front of us on this score. There is real evidence that some people at least are rejecting the image of themselves as consumers (except in the strictest sense) and beginning to really care about what they eat, buying locally, and about the people who grew it. It may well only be the tip of the iceberg but it is growing... we see it in organics, in veganism (of all things)... and even in the misplaced gluten intolerance epidemic.

There was a time when I would have dismissed this as a 21st century middle class wealth thing... elite consumerism (if you like)... but from everything I can discern it seems to go wider and deeper than that. It might be that foodie localism actually has more in common with the current wave of populism than it does with the organic Chelsea tractor crowd with spray on mud on their landrovers. Let's hope.

At the same time the marketing departments of the corporates have reached a new fever pitch. "Sustainability is all about innovation" we are told - by at least one Irish conference this week. Utter nonsense, unless one buzzword can magically make another.

In my generation at least I'm not sure that customers have been making many active choices about food, they may have had a wider selection on offer in return for their money, but busy lifestyles and "consumer expectations" have tended to deliver food which is the work of the processor and the marketing department rather than the farmer and the cook.

I wonder, and I certainly hope, that the pendulum may swing back the other way in the coming years with more people spending more time in the kitchen rather than less. Stranger things have happened, and it's notable (as I think Michael Pollan points out) that our connection with food and cooking is a personal one and runs deep inside our human culture.

Why else would we save a few hours in the kitchen each week only to spend them lovingly watching the Great British bake off and tweeting pictures of tuna melts to each other?

Buford T. Justice XIX

kowtow wrote: »

I think there is conflicting evidence in front of us on this score. There is real evidence that some people at least are rejecting the image of themselves as consumers (except in the strictest sense) and beginning to really care about what they eat, buying locally, and about the people who grew it. It may well only be the tip of the iceberg but it is growing... we see it in organics, in veganism (of all things)... and even in the misplaced gluten intolerance epidemic.

There was a time when I would have dismissed this as a 21st century middle class wealth thing... elite consumerism (if you like)... but from everything I can discern it seems to go wider and deeper than that. It might be that foodie localism actually has more in common with the current wave of populism than it does with the organic Chelsea tractor crowd with spray on mud on their landrovers. Let's hope.

At the same time the marketing departments of the corporates have reached a new fever pitch. "Sustainability is all about innovation" we are told - by at least one Irish conference this week. Utter nonsense, unless one buzzword can magically make another.

In my generation at least I'm not sure that customers have been making many active choices about food, they may have had a wider selection on offer in return for their money, but busy lifestyles and "consumer expectations" have tended to deliver food which is the work of the processor and the marketing department rather than the farmer and the cook.

I wonder, and I certainly hope, that the pendulum may swing back the other way in the coming years with more people spending more time in the kitchen rather than less. Stranger things have happened, and it's notable (as I think Michael Pollan points out) that our connection with food and cooking is a personal one and runs deep inside our human culture.

Why else would we save a few hours in the kitchen each week only to spend them lovingly watching the Great British bake off and tweeting pictures of tuna melts to each other?

Maybe, kt, maybe.

The only time I see people fret about food is when there is a food scare and they stop buying that product for a time. And in the majority of cases, it has nothing to do with the food being delivered into the processing plant but the food coming out the other end being adulterated with some questionable materials like horse added to beef here or Melamine being added to milk in China. The processor will survive, mostly, but the primary producer gets hammered again and again to pay for something over which they have no control or responsibility.

I hope you're right that consumers are starting to care about their food but, tbh, I simply can't see it. With food now costing less that 10% of the consumers pay packet, iirc, they see food as a disposable commodity, easily substituted with some cheaper product which they consider, amazingly to me, to be of equal or higher quality.

Maybe I am just tired and cynical after spring and the work that goes with it but I simply do not understand their mind set.

alps

Sitting here happy out agitating a tank of slurry..
Smelling shyte
Reading shyte..

How can any man get off with using such buzz words and jargon...so we'll positioned...and leveraging...and supporting...

The contradictions...😢

alps

Sitting here happy out agitating a tank of slurry..
Smelling shyte
Reading shyte..(journal)

How can any man get off with using such buzz words and jargon...so we'll positioned...and leveraging...and supporting...

The contradictions...😢

alps

Sorry gents ...referring to da journal...not to anyone above

Timmaay

kowtow wrote: »

I think there is conflicting evidence in front of us on this score. There is real evidence that some people at least are rejecting the image of themselves as consumers (except in the strictest sense) and beginning to really care about what they eat, buying locally, and about the people who grew it. It may well only be the tip of the iceberg but it is growing... we see it in organics, in veganism (of all things)... and even in the misplaced gluten intolerance epidemic.

There was a time when I would have dismissed this as a 21st century middle class wealth thing... elite consumerism (if you like)... but from everything I can discern it seems to go wider and deeper than that. It might be that foodie localism actually has more in common with the current wave of populism than it does with the organic Chelsea tractor crowd with spray on mud on their landrovers. Let's hope.

At the same time the marketing departments of the corporates have reached a new fever pitch. "Sustainability is all about innovation" we are told - by at least one Irish conference this week. Utter nonsense, unless one buzzword can magically make another.

In my generation at least I'm not sure that customers have been making many active choices about food, they may have had a wider selection on offer in return for their money, but busy lifestyles and "consumer expectations" have tended to deliver food which is the work of the processor and the marketing department rather than the farmer and the cook.

I wonder, and I certainly hope, that the pendulum may swing back the other way in the coming years with more people spending more time in the kitchen rather than less. Stranger things have happened, and it's notable (as I think Michael Pollan points out) that our connection with food and cooking is a personal one and runs deep inside our human culture.

Why else would we save a few hours in the kitchen each week only to spend them lovingly watching the Great British bake off and tweeting pictures of tuna melts to each other?

Abit like Buford I'm failing to share your enthusiasm at the minute haha, however that doesn't mean we can't change. I'm all up for government intervention in this whole area, the uk has already committed to introducing a sugar tax in 2018, and it's very likely we will follow also here, once the revenue generated from that gets directed straight back into food education and it could be incredibly beneficial to the nation as a whole. The cynic in me says that industry lobbing will water down proposals as such, but hopefully not. The main thing in my view that is needed is unbiased education, we all just need to eat a healthy reasonably balanced diet, simple but properly cooked meals using 5 or 6 row ingredients, ignore all the fads, low fat (high sugar), in the supermarket pretend the processed frozen food, and sweet/fizzy drinks aisles don't exist.

pedigree 6

Timmaay wrote: »

Abit like Buford I'm failing to share your enthusiasm at the minute haha, however that doesn't mean we can't change. I'm all up for government intervention in this whole area, the uk has already committed to introducing a sugar tax in 2018, and it's very likely we will follow also here, once the revenue generated from that gets directed straight back into food education and it could be incredibly beneficial to the nation as a whole. The cynic in me says that industry lobbing will water down proposals as such, but hopefully not. The main thing in my view that is needed is unbiased education, we all just need to eat a healthy reasonably balanced diet, simple but properly cooked meals using 5 or 6 row ingredients, ignore all the fads, low fat (high sugar), in the supermarket pretend the processed frozen food, and sweet/fizzy drinks aisles don't exist.

Unbiased education is the most important phrase in your post.

In schools already pupils are being bombarded with dairy and meat is bad for their health and the planet and teenagers being teenagers will rebel against their parents advice and go with the vegan flow to be part of the club putting their own health at risk.

I heard a representative from a local health food shop on the radio and "new" advice is that calcium is better absorbed from animals e.g. milk, not in tablet form from a limestone quarry coated in magnesium. That the tablets are actually harmful.
This guy has come up with some novel ideas that have proven to be true so it was interesting to hear this.

Anyway unbiased education that'll be a tough one.

The part time boy

pedigree 6 wrote: »

In schools already pupils are being bombarded with dairy and meat is bad for their health and the planet and teenagers being teenagers will rebel against their parents advice and go with the vegan flow to be part of the club putting their own health at risk.

pure nonsense

People eat meat cause it tastes dam good. Even though they won't admit it vegans sacrifice eating nice thing to """save the planet """"

The majority masses won't become vegans as they like doing what's feels good

charolais0153

What's the difference between vegan /vegetarian or is it just a fancy name type of thing

The part time boy

Vegetarian won't eat meat, however a lot of them will eat fish which makes sense !

A vegan won't eat anything that involves animals . So any dairy products , meat etc

blackdog1

The part time boy wrote:

A vegan won't eat anything that involves animals . So any dairy products , meat etc

I've seen plenty of vegans eat milk chocolate. ....very few actually 100% stick to it.

kowtow

I have a sneaking respect for vegans, not because I share any of their views ... which I don't... but because they are at least thinking seriously about what they eat. If everybody did that food processors and even supermarkets would not be the dominant giants they are today.

There is an important moral dimension to meat eating... there had to be from the earliest times because there is a fine line between killing a passing buffalo for food and knocking your neighbouring caveman on the head for desert.

That's one reason why food and meat are so bound up in all the various religious traditions.

Now we have abandoned both religions and the land, and the direct link between the animal and the eater is gone. The life of the animal to society at large is worth less than at any time in history... like any other commodity it is as low as the processor can legally get away with, and not a penny more.

Farmers of course still live at the sharp end of the moral dilemma. Animals are sentient beings, and we have to look them in the eye as we send them on their way to be processed and wrapped up anonymously for microwaving by the kitten clicking public.

For whatever reasons, I think most farmers raise stock with a healthy respect and affection, usually putting the welfare of the farm and the stock ahead of their own. We take direct responsibility for our actions where the animal is concerned.

Which makes us closer to the vegetarians than any of us could. Imagine.

Buford T. Justice XIX

That cranky witch of mine had a Jex heifer calf two weeks ago. She was extremely small so we fixed up a corner for her and didn't put her with the other calves as she was small enough to walk under them:rolleyes:

Anyway, the youngest fed her this morning and I told him to close the gate after him when he was finished. I finished off my jobs and wandered up to the house for a cuppa. I came in the door and stopped to take off my wellies when I got a puck in the backside.

The little strap had followed me up from the shed. She'll come to no good end:)

Waffletraktor

A teacher got sacked by the board of management in one of the workers, kids school for giving out pro vegan packs as home work in English class.