Dairy chit chat II

kowtow

Under what circumstances could two heifer calves, both by the same AI bull (FR2028) have a different EBI?

Both dams have no EBI, yet one calf is shown as 90 and one as 104?

freedominacup

kowtow wrote: »

Under what circumstances could two heifer calves, both by the same AI bull (FR2028) have a different EBI?

Both dams have no EBI, yet one calf is shown as 90 and one as 104?

The problems with ebi summed up in two questions.

Buford T. Justice XIX

kowtow wrote: »

Under what circumstances could two heifer calves, both by the same AI bull (FR2028) have a different EBI?

Both dams have no EBI, yet one calf is shown as 90 and one as 104?

Because their dams would have different EBIs estimated from their sires and dams EBIs.

C4d78

Anyone know if Vitesle injection is of much benefit to breeding heifers if low in Selenium or are blouses etc a better option?
Anyone used Vitesel pre breeding?

kowtow

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

Because their dams would have different EBIs estimated from their sires and dams EBIs.

Ah ok I wondered if that was the case.

The Dams do not have an EBI figure in herdplus and both their sires are missing.. I can't see the EBI for the granddams (or at least I don't know where to look for it)... but presumably I can actually infer the dams ebi based on the known ebi of FR2028?

Am I right that genotyping the Dams wouldn't make any difference here?

Obviously I'm going to continue my breeding strategy of getting the girls to carry on picking out the best looking bulls in the catalogue using their hooves but none of us likes an empty spreadsheet.....

Mooooo

kowtow wrote: »

Ah ok I wondered if that was the case.

The Dams do not have an EBI figure in herdplus and both their sires are missing.. I can't see the EBI for the granddams (or at least I don't know where to look for it)... but presumably I can actually infer the dams ebi based on the known ebi of FR2028?

Am I right that genotyping the Dams wouldn't make any difference here?

Obviously I'm going to continue my breeding strategy of getting the girls to carry on picking out the best looking bulls in the catalogue using their hooves but none of us likes an empty spreadsheet.....

It's possible they may find the sire of the dams if they were off ai by a dna test

kowtow

Still has me baffled

If I take FR2028 EBI at 166 then he contributes 83, right?

So the calf with EBI 104 by FR2028 must be getting 21 of it from her Dam - implying that the Dam (whose name is Silver) is worth 42

Now I take a KJO heifer EBI 103 born the same week , as it happens, to Silver's own Dam. KJO is at EBI 200, so only 3 of the calves EBI is coming from the Dam. That implies that the Dam has an EBI of 6.

So that would leave us with a Dam with an EBI of 6 mated to an unknown scrub bull a few years back producing a Dam (Silver) who is now able to contribute an EBI of 42.

I'm sure there is a deep misunderstanding at the heart of my analysis here.... but I'm f***ckd if I understand it.

White Clover

kowtow wrote: »

Still has me baffled

If I take FR2028 EBI at 166 then he contributes 83, right?

So the calf with EBI 104 by FR2028 must be getting 21 of it from her Dam - implying that the Dam (whose name is Silver) is worth 42

Now I take a KJO heifer EBI 103 born the same week , as it happens, to Silver's own Dam. KJO is at EBI 200, so only 3 of the calves EBI is coming from the Dam. That implies that the Dam has an EBI of 6.

So that would leave us with a Dam with an EBI of 6 mated to an unknown scrub bull a few years back producing a Dam (Silver) who is now able to contribute an EBI of 42.

I'm sure there is a deep misunderstanding at the heart of my analysis here.... but I'm f***ckd if I understand it.

It's genetics.... Brothers or sisters with same parents are all unique and different in their own way

Buford T. Justice XIX

I see dozens of Wisconsin dairy farmers were given 1 months notice that their processor wouldn't be collecting their milk any more and having to find a new purchaser before the month was up.

http://www.milkbusiness.com/article/dozens-of-wisconsin-farmers-lose-their-milk-contracts

At least we haven't got that bad yet, anyway.

freedominacup

kowtow wrote: »

I'm sure there is a deep misunderstanding at the heart of my analysis here.... but I'm f***ckd if I understand it.

In the immortal words of the bould Bertie "it's all smoke and daggers" Kt. Don't worry too much about it.

kowtow

freedominacup wrote: »

In the immortal words of the bould Bertie "it's all smoke and daggers" Kt. Don't worry too much about it.

"Smoke and Daggers"

That's the next two heifers named.

whelan2

Was anyone at the dispersal sale in Wicklow yesterday?

mf240

kowtow wrote: »

Under what circumstances could two heifer calves, both by the same AI bull (FR2028) have a different EBI?

Both dams have no EBI, yet one calf is shown as 90 and one as 104?

After obesity, low ebi is the single biggest killer of teenage dairy cows in ireland

Buford T. Justice XIX

At what point do you say enough is enough with a cranky heifer and get rid?

I've a heifer calved 10 days now and she is upsetting the last row of mostly heifers with her antics. She will stand, not quietly but quiet enough, for the cluster going on but as soon as I leave, she kicks it off. I put it on and go to the next animal and she kicks it off. Then she starts pushing her way up the row and knocking the rest of the clusters off.

I'm at my wits end with this one, I've never had one cause so much trouble for so long after calving. She refuses to come in anywhere else but the last row which is fair enough but her latest antic of moving up the row is the last straw for me.

I'm trying to decide between shackling her hind legs and just calling a dealer and letting her off tomorrow:(

whelan2

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

At what point do you say enough is enough with a cranky heifer and get rid?

I've a heifer calved 10 days now and she is upsetting the last row of mostly heifers with her antics. She will stand, not quietly but quiet enough, for the cluster going on but as soon as I leave, she kicks it off. I put it on and go to the next animal and she kicks it off. Then she starts pushing her way up the row and knocking the rest of the clusters off.

I'm at my wits end with this one, I've never had one cause so much trouble for so long after calving. She refuses to come in anywhere else but the last row which is fair enough but her latest antic of moving up the row is the last straw for me.

I'm trying to decide between shackling her hind legs and just calling a dealer and letting her off tomorrow:(

Had one in the autumn, total bitch, was very close to sending her to the factory, Took a month , she's as quiet as a mouse now. She used to turn around in the parlour. Only milked her once a day for a good while as I couldnt be bothered with the hassle

cute geoge

I had to get rid of kickbar from parlour as with my temper it was flying in all directions .I simply tie up any troublesome heifers leg up to rump rail and she is standing on 3 legs ,any antics and she is then panned out .They normally get the message after the first toss they get

Timmaay

Defo only try to milk OAD. If she is upsetting the whole row, don't even bother putting her in until you have the rest milked, actually just before you bring her in try putting a rope behind the last cow, it should stop that cow pushing back, make sure you got a cow in front and behind her also. I can rotate milked cows around very handy in my parlour, I always have a big cow ready to slot in (and gladly get an extra pull of nuts ha).

It's always the bloody late calved heifer that cause carnage also I notice, they tend to be the utter bottom of the social ladder (all the other heifers well settled into the herd now), they tend to always be last cow into the parlour right through their 1st lactation, often can spend whole 1st lactation kicking, and unfortunately often are quick to cull themselves for whatever reason, either lacking milk or fertilty.

Wildsurfer

Have you anyone that can give you a hand for a few milkings? I hardly used kick bars, tying legs etc this year as I have a lad with me to bend the tail up in the air. It's unreal how they can't move when you do that. After a few times at that they usually calm down, to the point where at least you can put on a kick bar without them doing a highland fling.

Waffletraktor

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

At what point do you say enough is enough with a cranky heifer and get rid?

I've a heifer calved 10 days now and she is upsetting the last row of mostly heifers with her antics. She will stand, not quietly but quiet enough, for the cluster going on but as soon as I leave, she kicks it off. I put it on and go to the next animal and she kicks it off. Then she starts pushing her way up the row and knocking the rest of the clusters off.

I'm at my wits end with this one, I've never had one cause so much trouble for so long after calving. She refuses to come in anywhere else but the last row which is fair enough but her latest antic of moving up the row is the last straw for me.

I'm trying to decide between shackling her hind legs and just calling a dealer and letting her off tomorrow:(

Used to have 2/3 big old 'boss' cows who we gave half their ration in first time then bring them back round for their 2nd half and squash the troublesome heifer.

GrasstoMilk

Stay with her till she's milked and hold up her tail. A lot of milkings I might be on my own in spring and that's how I mange the trouble ones. Kick bars seem to work with us for some reason. Think there great

Mooooo

Rope and/or a tight squeeze the best job. Don't have a kick bar or stick in parlour in case tempers fray

Buford T. Justice XIX

I had a big cow that is a bit lame so she was left in the yard for the last round and she came in last and squeezed them up.

Two cows and nine heifers in 8 spaces:o

She was cranky but was nicely squeezed so she was milked fully for a change.

Not sure how long it will be before she calms properly but there will be lots of sh!te to wash out until then.

Thanks, lads, I'm still thinking of selling her though, too much bad blood between us at this stage.

blackdog1

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

Thanks, lads, I'm still thinking of selling her though, too much bad blood between us at this stage.

I had one like that...she's gone now milking is easy again. That's why we breed plenty of replacements. Also if I have half a last row and have heifers training I hold 5 or 6 cows who are milked in the crish and put them in the to squeeze them up.

whelan2

blackdog1 wrote: »

I had one like that...she's gone now milking is easy again. That's why we breed plenty of replacements. Also if I have half a last row and have heifers training I hold 5 or 6 cows who are milked in the crish and put them in the to squeeze them up.

ItS great when they are gone, you realise how much stress one animal was causing you and milking is back to normal again.

Wildsurfer

I spent all last year threatening to get rid of two such heifers that were wrecking my head every milking kicking off clusters, but this year they are no bother and great milkers to boot. Sometimes you just need to be patient, that's what I keep telling myself whenever this years heifers are hopping around the place!

hurling_lad

Timmaay wrote: »

Defo only try to milk OAD. If she is upsetting the whole row, don't even bother putting her in until you have the rest milked, actually just before you bring her in try putting a rope behind the last cow, it should stop that cow pushing back, make sure you got a cow in front and behind her also. I can rotate milked cows around very handy in my parlour, I always have a big cow ready to slot in (and gladly get an extra pull of nuts ha).

It's always the bloody late calved heifer that cause carnage also I notice, they tend to be the utter bottom of the social ladder (all the other heifers well settled into the herd now), they tend to always be last cow into the parlour right through their 1st lactation, often can spend whole 1st lactation kicking, and unfortunately often are quick to cull themselves for whatever reason, either lacking milk or fertilty.

+1 for getting a rope or chain across in front of a wild heifer.

When I have a load of heifers coming for the last row or two in Feb, I half-fill the row, put a chain in across the passage and then fill the back half. At least then only half the row of cows are affected if there's pushing from the back.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I had a big cow that is a bit lame so she was left in the yard for the last round and she came in last and squeezed them up.

Two cows and nine heifers in 8 spaces:o

She was cranky but was nicely squeezed so she was milked fully for a change.

Not sure how long it will be before she calms properly but there will be lots of sh!te to wash out until then.

Thanks, lads, I'm still thinking of selling her though, too much bad blood between us at this stage.

Well, that's finished anyway. She mounted the feed through this morning and fell down on top of another heifer. I left off the whole row and refilled it without her.

I'll dry her off and see if she can be exported to Mongolia, as long as i can run her there, the witch.

C0N0R

Quick question lads, we have a 5000 litre Kilkenny milk tank at home with an auto washer, what's it worth? To be fair the tank is the guts of 20 years old but is in good condition and working fine, just needs new gas.

GrasstoMilk

C0N0R wrote: »

Quick question lads, we have a 5000 litre Kilkenny milk tank at home with an auto washer, what's it worth? To be fair the tank is the guts of 20 years old but is in good condition and working fine, just needs new gas.

2€ a gallon I think is what is said there worth

Timmaay

Would I be mad to be thinking about growing maize without plastic? Not under pressure with land this year, so I could grow an extra acre or so and save the cost of plastic, in a decent location here, a few of the neighbours seem to get away nicely enough without using plastic.