Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The only player in ww2 with imperial ambitions in Europe was Germany.

As you have shown with your callous generalistion. Imperialism is 'imperialism' whether it is wearing boots made in Berlin or London.

FrancieBrady

Fratton Fred wrote: »

This might come as a disappointment to Francie as well

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37787890



maybe the end of the world isn't nigh after all?

Glad to see it, but will take on board the caveat that Toyota say it is based on reassurances given by May.

The debate is, is she in any position to give reassurances.

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As you have shown with your callous generalistion. Imperialism is 'imperialism' whether it is wearing boots made in Berlin or London.

Can you please read my post. The only player in WW2 with imperial ambitions in Europe was Germany. (And later Russia)

greendom

Fratton Fred wrote: »

This might come as a disappointment to Francie as well

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37787890



maybe the end of the world isn't nigh after all?

have they been given a nod and a wink about access to the single market ?

FA Hayek

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Which has to do with not causing instability at home.

He has no grounds for a veto (you cannot say 'just because' when you use a veto) that is the current position.

Of course he has grounds for a veto as not using it would fuel a breakup of Spain. Let me put it this way, has he ever said that he will not veto a Scottish entry to the EU? His rhetoric has been cold at best and outright hostile to the idea at worst.

You seem not want to even discuss the reality of the situation, that getting Spain on side and accepting a Scottish entry to the EU would be a difficult proposition. Come back to reality please. How long do you think it would take Scotland to join the EU?

Fratton Fred

greendom wrote: »

have they been given a nod and a wink about access to the single market ?

you have to wonder....

Fratton Fred

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Glad to see it, but will take on board the caveat that Toyota say it is based on reassurances given by May.

The debate is, is she in any position to give reassurances.

why wouldn't she be?

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Can you please read my post. The only player in WW2 with imperial ambitions in Europe was Germany. (And later Russia)

We know that.
We also know that your callous attitude to civillians in Germany comes from an Imperial mindset.
Britian, had it's empire taken from it, they would still have it if they could have held on to it. There but for the grace of the devil go they, so please don't play holier than thou on the issue of imperialism. They are still dropping bombs on the heads of civilians and spreading terror.

Calina

Fratton Fred wrote: »

why wouldn't she be?

Because access to the single market unencumbered is not hers to assure right now.

FrancieBrady

Fratton Fred wrote: »

why wouldn't she be?

This is based on May telling them that she can negotiate EU access for certain sectors.
Can she do that?

I can see the behind the scenes maneuvering to get this said. Drill down into it and it isn't all that much. It's a commitment... if certain things happen.

demfad

Fratton Fred wrote: »

maybe the end of the world isn't nigh after all?

It's amazing how self delusional Brexit supporters can get. They are like a bunch of lord Haw Haws!

Is May going to give deals to ALL big employers?

Here is one of several projections which show where things are going.

The lower Sterling value explains the short term slower than expected demise. Things will get sticky in 2017 and thereafter.

GDP will be down significantly, investment is virtually non existant.
How will the Tories keep their promise to look after the poorest workers now?

catbear

Have we had Brexit Hard with a Vengeance yet?

demfad

greendom wrote: »

have they been given a nod and a wink about access to the single market ?

She revealed in that leaked video how damaging leaving it would be.
Unfortunately the European leaders all saw it too and have been highly critical of it. Domestic opposition or asking for details of Government predictions for leaving the single market to see if it tallies with her private views.
Negotiating position weakened again!

catbear

Well currency markets aren't applauding the positive numbers, they know they're domestic figures and are awaiting the first of the big names pulling the trigger on a big relocation.

FA Hayek

catbear wrote: »

Well currency markets aren't applauding the positive numbers, they know they're domestic figures and are awaiting the first of the big names pulling the trigger on a big relocation.

How can you say that when Sterling rose sharply this morning after the GDP figures have been announced. Of course its all reactionary, traders react, its in their nature.

FrancieBrady

So is a rise in sterling now a good thing? A while ago the Brexiters on here were saying a fall was a good thing.

How's them hotels doing today?

Dyr

catbear wrote: »

Have we had Brexit Hard with a Vengeance yet?

I assumed we did

Mad Brexit : Beyond the Eurozone

Fratton Fred

Calina wrote: »

Because access to the single market unencumbered is not hers to assure right now.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is based on May telling them that she can negotiate EU access for certain sectors.
Can she do that?

are you implying that the eu will block the import of British goods in to the eu?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I can see the behind the scenes maneuvering to get this said. Drill down into it and it isn't all that much. It's a commitment... if certain things happen.

aah, that good old third eye of yours.

Is that the one that predicted Nissan would up and leave the UK?

Fratton Fred

demfad wrote: »

It's amazing how self delusional Brexit supporters can get. They are like a bunch of lord Haw Haws!

I'm not a Brexiter, nor am I delusional.

whereas you, on the other hand appear to be enjoying spreading doom and gloom.

Why is that?

VinLieger

catbear wrote: »

Have we had Brexit Hard with a Vengeance yet?

Surely Brexit 2: Brexit Harder should be first.

@mods can we get a list in OP? pretty please?

catbear

FA Hayek wrote: »

How can you say that when Sterling rose sharply this morning after the GDP figures have been announced. Of course its all reactionary, traders react, its in their nature.

Rose sharply? it's still hasn't broken out of its half pence range of the last week.

Nay, they're waiting. Way too many wantobe Soros's around trying to catch the next political announcement; domestic data isn't going to change much when the whole show is in a holding pattern.

I love Mad Brexit: Beyond the Euorzone.

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We know that.
We also know that your callous attitude to civillians in Germany comes from an Imperial mindset.
Britian, had it's empire taken from it, they would still have it if they could have held on to it. There but for the grace of the devil go they, so please don't play holier than thou on the issue of imperialism. They are still dropping bombs on the heads of civilians and spreading terror.

I'm not callous, I'm unsympathetic.callous implies a cruel intent.

FrancieBrady

Fratton Fred wrote: »

are you implying that the eu will block the import of British goods in to the eu?



aah, that good old third eye of yours.

Is that the one that predicted Nissan would up and leave the UK?

May is giving assurances. I asked you, can she do this?

I know how these things work, this CEO has made a statement in return for something, be sure about that. He hasn't made any commitments that are binding and they could quite easily change.

And care to show me were I predicted Nissan would up and leave the UK?
I know you are desperate to defend blighty but lying now?
Many others have predicted it and they may or may not be right. Far to early to say.

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'm not callous, I'm unsympathetic.

You can think of yourself what you wish. IMO your statement was callous and an ill informed generalisation typical of the imperialistic mindset.

whatstherush

An interesting corollary of the Nissan news, is that May has given them(Nissan) a better understanding of her plans for Brexit, than she gave to elected leaders of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Adds a spin to the Take Back Control slogan!

Fratton Fred

FrancieBrady wrote: »

May is giving assurances. I asked you, can she do this?

I know how these things work, this CEO has made a statement in return for something, be sure about that. He hasn't made any commitments that are binding and they could quite easily change.

And care to show me were I predicted Nissan would up and leave the UK?
I know you are desperate to defend blighty but lying now?
Many others have predicted it and they may or may not be right. Far to early to say.

too early to say, despite their CEO confirming two new models will be made in Sunderland? ok :rolleyes:

The eu isn't going to block British made cars being sold in europe, that is pretty much a given. Nor is the eu going to impose high tariffs on British cars, because that would be reciprocated and would hurt european manufacturers just as much.

The only question is how much those tariffs will be and if the government provides tax incentives to offset those tariffs, then I am sure Nissan will be happy to stay.

FrancieBrady

Fratton Fred wrote: »

too early to say, despite their CEO confirming two new models will be made in Sunderland? ok :rolleyes:

you think they only decided to make these cars this week? :D:D
They don't want to leave Fred, it is an inordinate hassle and would be hugely disruptive. These cars and their production are planned for years.
He has made a commitment IF...certain things happen.

Would I bet on those odds...frankly no. But I am glad for Sunderland's workers, if skeptical.

The eu isn't going to block British made cars being sold in europe, that is pretty much a given. Nor is the eu going to impose high tariffs on British cars, because that would be reciprocated and would hurt european manufacturers just as much.

The only question is how much those tariffs will be and if the government provides tax incentives to offset those tariffs, then I am sure Nissan will be happy to stay.

Who is making predictions now?

Fratton Fred

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who is making predictions now?

Predictions based on commonsense and reality

demfad

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Is that the one that predicted Nissan would up and leave the UK?

A Downing Street spokesman could not give any details of the government's promises to the company

Unless she has given them direct assurances that trade will be barrier free (the UK will not be leaving the single market) then this will be a very very costly good news story.

demfad

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Predictions based on commonsense and reality

Whatever you say Lord Haw Haw