Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

VinLieger

fernrock wrote: »

The devil you know is better than the one you don't know.
After all we were dealing with the brits ( sometimes reluctantly) for 800 years.
Angela and her cronies are new on the scene.

Yeah not such a good deal when you learn about the realities of trade deals, Ireland as an independent trade market would be screwed every way possible

steddyeddy

FA Hayek wrote: »

Could join if the Spanish allows them which is questionable. If they do join they will be required to ditch the GBP and adopt the euro as their currency.

Again, its all up in the air but the same reasoning given by the SNP and their ilk are the same given by UKIP and their ilk. Same bedfellows.

I keep hearing this but where exactly did the Spanish say they would block an independent Scotland joining?

Fratton Fred

No news dump this morning Eddy?

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No news dump this morning Eddy?

No Fred. Mary's providing hours of entertainment as it is.

steddyeddy

Sorry Fred! Canad deal goes ahead after Belgium issue resolved. This is good for both the EU and the UK. It's good for the EU for obvious reasons but it's good for the UK because it's not as hard to block a deal as previously thought. The Independent reports.

Ceta: EU-Canada trade deal to go ahead after threat of Belgian disagreement resolved
'All parliaments are now able to approve by tomorrow at midnight. Important step for EU and Canada,' tweets Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel.

Belgium has reached an agreement to back a new free trade deal between the EU and Canada.

Justin Trudeau was set to come to Brussels to sign the agreement today, but cancelled his trip after the small Belgian region of Wallonia stalled the negotiation process by rejecting the deal.

"Belgian agreement on Ceta. All parliaments are now able to approve by tomorrow at midnight. Important step for EU and Canada," tweeted Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel.

Donald Tusk, President of the European Council, said he welcomed the news, but would only contact Mr Trudeau "once all procedures are finalised for EU signing Ceta".

demfad

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry Fred! Canad deal goes ahead after Belgium issue resolved. This is good for both the EU and the UK. It's good for the EU for obvious reasons but it's good for the UK because it's not as hard to block a deal as previously thought. The Independent reports.

It's important to note that no deal that disadvantages even one state or representative region can pass. The UK can do a fast track deal based on the single market apparently that would not need ratification. But they would have to lose their stance on immigration and EU rules i guess.

Iwasfrozen

Today's a day of good news.

CETA deal goes through and the British ecpnoy shows higher than expected growth after Brexit.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry Fred! Canad deal goes ahead after Belgium issue resolved. This is good for both the EU and the UK. It's good for the EU for obvious reasons but it's good for the UK because it's not as hard to block a deal as previously thought. The Independent reports.

I wonder now will the UK have difficulty doing a deal with them alá Australia's recently stated position.

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wonder now will the UK have difficulty doing a deal with them alá Australia's recently stated position.

I don't believe the ozzies said they couldn't do a deal. Only that they couldn't do one while Britain is in the EU.

FA Hayek

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Spanish PM has said that there are NO grounds for them to object to a Scottish application.

A Scottish move for independence is constitutional but a Catalan one isn't, that is the difference in the situations and it is ignored by British media who would prefer the scaremonger that Spain would block Scotland.

The UK does not have a constitution. Spanish politics is in flux and all they need now are independence movements in Catalonia and the Basque region. Yea, that will go down a treat. It will take years if not decades for Scotland to join the EU.

Dyr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

...and waited for the Merricans to get on board before being brave again?.

In fairness now, they kept gamely dropping bombs on german civvies

greendom

This is amazingly ironic from Mr Fox...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/26/eus-tough-post-brexit-stance-puts-politics-over-prosperity-says-liam-fox

FA Hayek

All of a sudden people are positive about Trade deals. TTIP is so last month

Iwasfrozen

Bambi wrote: »

In fairness now, they kept gamely dropping bombs on german civvies

To be fair it is hard to feel sorry for said German civvies.

FrancieBrady

FA Hayek wrote: »

The UK does not have a constitution. Spanish politics is in flux and all they need now are independence movements in Catalonia and the Basque region. Yea, that will go down a treat. It will take years if not decades for Scotland to join the EU.

Spain has said they have NO grounds to block a Scottish application. Has been covered and debunked on the thread already.

Yes the UK has no constitution but a Scottish ref is legal, a Catalan one is unconstitutional. There is only a similarity in situations to the ill-informed or the readers of certain media.

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

To be fair it is hard to feel sorry for said German civvies.

The leopard and it's spots, old chap?

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The leopard and it's spots, old chap?

Nah, everyone has some good in them. Even a Nazi, still hard to feel sorry when the people who turned a blind eye get bombed though.

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nah, everyone has some good in them. Even a Nazi, still hard to feel sorry when the people who turned a blind eye get bombed though.

'Cruel to be kind' as Mary might say, eh?

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Cruel to be kind' as Mary might say, eh?

There's no kindness in bombing people. Can you please stop putting words in my mouth thanks.

Calina

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

There's no kindness in bombing people. Can you please stop putting words in my mouth thanks.

You said you found it hard to feel sorry for German civilians being bombed. It's an obnoxious unkind attitude to think this way. THE great tragedy of WW2 is the way it scaled up the targeting of civilians.

wes

greendom wrote: »

This is amazingly ironic from Mr Fox...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/26/eus-tough-post-brexit-stance-puts-politics-over-prosperity-says-liam-fox

that kind of nonsense, is sure to endear the UK to the EU. They decide to leave the EU and cause the whole bloody mess, but its the EU fault. You couldn't make it up.

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

There's no kindness in bombing people. Can you please stop putting words in my mouth thanks.

We all know exactly what you said.

FA Hayek

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Spain has said they have NO grounds to block a Scottish application. Has been covered and debunked on the thread already.

Yes the UK has no constitution but a Scottish ref is legal, a Catalan one is unconstitutional. There is only a similarity in situations to the ill-informed or the readers of certain media.

Constitutions can be amended you know. Have you heard about this thing called 'repeal the 8th'? As I said, Spanish politics is in flux. It took them what, 10 months to form a government. An independent Scotland asking to join the EU will stoke the regional flames, add in a bit of a economic crisis and all bets are off that Spain could remain as one nation as is.

Spain can veto Scottish membership of the EU. That is a fact as ALL current EU members must vote in favour of a new state joining the EU. They have also been vocal in their opposition to allowing Scotland join the EU.
https://www.ft.com/content/33de1fbc-3dfb-11e6-8716-a4a71e8140b0

“If the United Kingdom leaves [the EU], so does Scotland,” Mr Rajoy told a press conference in Brussels on Tuesday. “Scotland has no competences to negotiate with the EU. The Spanish government rejects any negotiation with anyone other than the United Kingdom.”

From the horses mouth right there.

Then you have this.

Catalan voters elected a firmly pro-secession government last September that is officially committed to leading the prosperous north-eastern region to independence by next year.

Officials in Madrid worry that any signal of encouragement from Brussels towards Scotland’s independence-minded government would further embolden the secessionists in Catalonia — and create a potentially crucial precedent for the break-up of a sovereign EU member state.

I am sure you will be along to tell me the sky is purple.

FrancieBrady

FA Hayek wrote: »

Constitutions can be amended you know. Have you heard about this thing called 'repeal the 8th'? As I said, Spanish politics is in flux. It took them what, 10 months to form a government. An independent Scotland asking to join the EU will stoke the regional flames, add in a bit of a economic crisis and all bets are off that Spain could remain as one nation as is.

Spain can veto Scottish membership of the EU. That is a fact as ALL current EU members must vote in favour of a new state joining the EU. They have also been vocal in their opposition to allowing Scotland join the EU.
https://www.ft.com/content/33de1fbc-3dfb-11e6-8716-a4a71e8140b0



From the horses mouth right there.

Then you have this.



I am sure you will be along to tell me the sky is purple.

You are right, Scotland cannot negotiate if it is still a member of the UK.
That is all he was saying.

He went on to say that he has no grounds to veto an independent Scottish application.

http://newsnet.scot/archive/what-rajoy-is-still-not-saying/

El País: Would you use your veto in the EU?

Rajoy: I can’t use my veto for nothing. I could only use the veto so that it were not out. Because it’s that this is not a problem of veto. It’s that it automatically leaves and therefore I can’t veto it, it’s that it leaves.

El País: I am referring to its later accession.

Rajoy: It would have to put itself in the queue. We would be in another story. We’re not going to get ahead of events.

Debunked again. There is NO record of the Spanish saying they would veto and independent Scottish application.

Iwasfrozen

Calina wrote: »

You said you found it hard to feel sorry for German civilians being bombed. It's an obnoxious unkind attitude to think this way. THE great tragedy of WW2 is the way it scaled up the targeting of civilians.

This is getting off topic but..

The same German civvies who spat at jews in the street? who believed in their own racial superiority? Who turned a blind eye while their government imprisoned and eventually exterminated Jews, intellectuals, homosexuals, the Roma, the disabled, socialists, enemy pows and anyone else deemed undesirable.

The German civvies who believed they had the unconditional right to control any land that contained ethnic Germans, who worked in the factories that produced the munitions that allowed the German military to carry out atrocities in Europe?

As I've said civilians shouldn't be bombed but I find it hard to shed a tear for this particular bunch.

FrancieBrady

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

This is getting off topic but..

The same German civvies who spat at jews in the street? who believed in their own racial superiority? Who turned a blind eye while their government imprisoned and eventually exterminated Jews, intellectuals, homosexuals, the Roma, the disabled, socialists, enemy pows and anyone else deemed undesirable.

The German civvies who believed they had the unconditional right to control any land that contained ethnic Germans, who worked in the factories that produced the German military to carry out atrocities in Europe.

As I've said civilians shouldn't be bombed but I find it hard to shed a tear for this particular bunch.

The attitude that allowed Churchill to indiscrimately carpet bomb cities that were occupied by 'some' people who believed the above.

Good to see the imperial spirit is alive and well in 2016.

FA Hayek

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Debunked again. There is NO record of the Spanish saying they would veto and independent Scottish application.

Only that he more or less said it in the FT article and that El Paid interview he was coy as he wants to use it as a bargaining chip down the line with the EU. 3 times he refused to answer the question. Seems he is playing the long game. No Spanish PM is going to say that he is fine with an independent Scotland joining the EU as an Independent Catalonia will be next.

As I said, this would take years if not decades to sort out.
How long do you think Scotland would take to join the EU if independent?

Iwasfrozen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The attitude that allowed Churchill to indiscrimately carpet bomb cities that were occupied by 'some' people who believed the above.

Good to see the imperial spirit is alive and well in 2016.

The only player in ww2 with imperial ambitions in Europe was Germany.

FrancieBrady

FA Hayek wrote: »

Only that he more or less said it in the FT article and that El Paid interview he was coy as he wants to use it as a bargaining chip down the line with the EU. 3 times he refused to answer the question. Seems he is playing the long game. No Spanish PM is going to say that he is fine with an independent Scotland joining the EU as an Independent Catalonia will be next.

As I said, this would take years if not decades to sort out.
How long do you think Scotland would take to join the EU if independent?

Which has to do with not causing instability at home.

He has no grounds for a veto (you cannot say 'just because' when you use a veto) that is the current position.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry Fred! Canad deal goes ahead after Belgium issue resolved. This is good for both the EU and the UK. It's good for the EU for obvious reasons but it's good for the UK because it's not as hard to block a deal as previously thought. The Independent reports.

This might come as a disappointment to Francie as well

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37787890

Nissan has confirmed it will build both the new Qashqai and the X-Trail SUV at its Sunderland plant thanks to government "support and assurances".
The Japanese company's commitment to Britain's biggest car plant had been in doubt following the EU referendum.
It comes as economic growth in the three months after the vote confounded expectations, growing by 0.5%.
That is slower than the 0.7% in the previous quarter but stronger than analysts' estimates of about 0.3%.
Nissan's decision is the first major development for the car industry since the Brexit vote and secures 7,000 jobs.
A Nissan spokesman said making the X-Trail at Sunderland could lead to hundreds of new jobs being created in the coming years.
Mr Ghosn said he welcomed Prime Minister Theresa May's "commitment to the automotive industry in Britain".

maybe the end of the world isn't nigh after all?