Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

First Up

Grayson wrote:

Another report saying how bad Brexit will be.

A bleak scenario. Not everything predicted in the piece is a result of Brexit but for sure Brexit makes it all worse.

A Little Pony

The EU is dying, it hasn't got long left. I await the French referendum and Holland.

A Little Pony

A Little Pony wrote: »

The EU is dying, it hasn't got long left. I await the French referendum and Holland.

One of the architects of the Euro has just died.
Not a celebrity, but someone who has had more of an affect on our lives than all the celebrities who died this year put together.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-38453905
A key architect of the euro and a former Bundesbank president, Hans Tietmeyer, has died aged 85.

He was a driving force behind creating the European Central Bank and the single currency.

Mr Tietmeyer ran Germany's central bank from 1993 until his retirement in 1999.

Zubeneschamali

Grayson wrote: »

Another report saying how bad Brexit will be.

Eh, most of that is happening anyhow, Brexit or no Brexit.

Zubeneschamali

A Little Pony wrote: »

The EU is dying, it hasn't got long left. I await the French referendum and Holland.

When do you think the next country will leave? I will predict never: the UK will rejoin before anyone else is stupid enough to leave.

Grayson

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

When do you think the next country will leave? I will predict never: the UK will rejoin before anyone else is stupid enough to leave.

Pony has posted that over and over again. In 20 years they'll be posting it.

Rjd2

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

When do you think the next country will leave? I will predict never: the UK will rejoin before anyone else is stupid enough to leave.

We can never be sure, but plenty of polls from various European countries recently and nobody is keen to leave just yet.

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Worth a read that.

Fratton Fred

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Eh, most of that is happening anyhow, Brexit or no Brexit.

Brexit is blamed for anything at the moment, even people getting older apparently.

A Little Pony

Rjd2 wrote: »

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

When do you think the next country will leave? I will predict never: the UK will rejoin before anyone else is stupid enough to leave.

We can never be sure, but plenty of polls from various European countries recently and nobody is keen to leave just yet.

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Worth a read that.

The UK leaving is a game changer for them. Symbolically it just looks awful for the EU but in the long run, I don't see other European countries not deciding to gain back sovereignty and taking back control of their own laws.

marienbad

A Little Pony wrote: »

The UK leaving is a game changer for them. Symbolically it just looks awful for the EU but in the long run, I don't see other European countries not deciding to gain back sovereignty and taking back control of their own laws.

Surely if anything the UK leaving will strengthen the union ? De Gaulle had it right in that the UK were only always reluctant Europeans and now that has corrected itself and allows each to go their own way .

I have been reading and hearing that the EEC/EU was finished for over 40 years - still hasn't happened . If anything the coming years will see it stronger than ever .

A Little Pony

marienbad wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The UK leaving is a game changer for them. Symbolically it just looks awful for the EU but in the long run, I don't see other European countries not deciding to gain back sovereignty and taking back control of their own laws.

Surely if anything the UK leaving will strengthen the union ? De Gaulle had it right in that the UK were only always reluctant Europeans and now that has corrected itself and allows each to go their own way .

I have been reading and hearing that the EEC/EU was finished for over 40 years - still hasn't happened . If anything the coming years will see it stronger than ever .

Have you seen Southern Europe? Nationalism is rising all over Europe, Le Penn could be President of France. If she wins, the EU is in huge trouble.

steddyeddy

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Eh, most of that is happening anyhow, Brexit or no Brexit.

There's no denying Brexit will speed things up.

marienbad

A Little Pony wrote: »

Have you seen Southern Europe? Nationalism is rising all over Europe, Le Penn could be President of France. If she wins, the EU is in huge trouble.

Yeah I have seen Southern Europe , have you seen the polls in those countries ? All of them are overwhelmingly in favour of EU membership .

As for Le Pen could be President , could be would be smud be , the fact is she won't - so what will you move on to then ? Last month it was Austria and Italy , now it is France and Holland , so what next ? Back to Greece and the Euro I suppose .

The fact is Europe faces huge problems , but they would only be magnified outside the union .

In a world of increasingly belligerent power blocs better to be in one than outside .

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

There's no denying Brexit will speed things up.

Rapid ageing???

First Up

Fratton Fred wrote:

Brexit is blamed for anything at the moment, even people getting older apparently.

No, it is being blamed for the UK being unable to take the steps needed to compensate for people getting older.

I'll be interested to see how the Brexiteers react when immigration is largely composed of eldery relatives from the Indian sub continent instead of young and well educated Europeans.

But I suppose a granny from Goa is less of a threat than a Romanian or Polish tradesman who might do something useful.

First Up

First Up wrote: »

No, it is being blamed for the UK being unable to take the steps needed to compensate for people getting older.

I'll be interested to see how the Brexiteers react when immigration is largely composed of elderly relatives from the Indian sub continent instead of young and well educated Europeans.

But I suppose a granny from Goa is less of a threat than a Romanian or Polish tradesman who might do something useful.

Bringing in elderly relatives really should be the first thing that is stopped, Brexit or no Brexit (unless they're able to support ALL their future healthcare needs).
At least they don't breed.:rolleyes:

First Up

Deleted User wrote:

Bringing in elderly relatives really should be the first thing that is stopped, Brexit or no Brexit (unless they're able to support ALL their future healthcare needs). At least they don't breed.

They can curtail non EU immigration any time they want. Nothing to do with the EU.

Rjd2

marienbad wrote: »

Yeah I have seen Southern Europe , have you seen the polls in those countries ? All of them are overwhelmingly in favour of EU membership .

As for Le Pen could be President , could be would be smud be , the fact is she won't - so what will you move on to then ? Last month it was Austria and Italy , now it is France and Holland , so what next ? Back to Greece and the Euro I suppose .

The fact is Europe faces huge problems , but they would only be magnified outside the union .

In a world of increasingly belligerent power blocs better to be in one than outside .

What kills Le Pen is she does not attract older voters for two reasons. One the family history and two they are terrified they may lose their pensions if France leaves the EU, and MLP has proposed a frexit style vote.

Lets not forget one of the big elections of the end of 2016 was in Austria where a far right nominee was on the verge of winning. However one of the key reasons he lost was Farage suggested if he won Austria would leave the EU. When Farage put that idea into play,it was gold for his opponent.

Heck even Hoefers people suggested such a proposal was death for his campaign.


http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/austrias-far-right-freedom-party-blames-nigel-farage-election-defeat-1594959

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

The UK leaving....

You should be more concerned with Scotland breaking up the UK because if it does unionists will soon learn that the English don't give a damn about your 'unionism'.

Whether Scotland leaves the UK, or not, you better hope-and-pray Westminster/London continues to underwrite the basket-case statelet in the northeast of Ireland. Non-unionists can vote themselves straight back into the EU via the no-reverse UI roadmap known as the GFA.

FA Hayek

This UI ****e again. Most people in the South don't want it when they will hear how much it will cost.

jimmycrackcorm

marienbad wrote:

Surely if anything the UK leaving will strengthen the union ? De Gaulle had it right in that the UK were only always reluctant Europeans and now that has corrected itself and allows each to go their own way .

Brexit is not really a surprise when you consider that there was no way the Brits were going to give up the queen being on their money in favour of thing on the Euro.

FrancieBrady

FA Hayek wrote: »

This UI ****e again. Most people in the South don't want it when they will hear how much it will cost.

If the UK breaks up (and I think what we are watching, is that process) a UI is the only island-stabilising choice there is.
Unless you think a bloody civil war to the death, won't 'cost' us.

catbear

FA Hayek wrote: »

This UI ****e again. Most people in the South don't want it when they will hear how much it will cost.

It's kinda like Irish people and U2. They'll give out about Bono etc but when they hear Where The Streets Have No Name they sing along.

Grayson

FA Hayek wrote: »

This UI ****e again. Most people in the South don't want it when they will hear how much it will cost.

Not t mention the security concerns. There's a load of nutjobs up there on both sides who are ready to kick off again at the drop of a hat.

Thing is that most brits don't give a fcuk about NI either. They know feck all about it and really don't care.

FrancieBrady

Grayson wrote: »

Not t mention the security concerns. There's a load of nutjobs up there on both sides who are ready to kick off again at the drop of a hat.

Thing is that most brits don't give a fcuk about NI either. They know feck all about it and really don't care.

And the point is what do we in the south propose to do if the UK breaks up as a result of Brexit.
Not dealing with it again and trying to turn a blind unconcerned eye, again, is not an option.
We, as Irish citizens, need to discuss this, debate this, instead of wasting energy on repetitive postulations on what will happen the in the UK and the EU.

The destabilising amongst the 'load of nutjobs' (they are no more nutjobs than would develop anywhere else in the world that has unresolved issues) is potentially catastrophic for the island we live on.

steddyeddy

Grayson wrote: »

Not t mention the security concerns. There's a load of nutjobs up there on both sides who are ready to kick off again at the drop of a hat.

Thing is that most brits don't give a fcuk about NI either. They know feck all about it and really don't care.

Every Brit I talk to resents paying for it.

Zubeneschamali

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And the point is what do we in the south propose to do if the UK breaks up as a result of Brexit.
Not dealing with it again and trying to turn a blind unconcerned eye, again, is not an option.

Dundalk to Derry canal filled with electrified robot jumping sharks.

FrancieBrady

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Dundalk to Derry canal filled with electrified robot jumping sharks.

The criminally irresponsible have tried physical borders before. Didn't work then and won't work in the future. Because you cannot fence off aspirations or identities.

The problems remain the same as they were at an intrinsically unnatural partition.
The question is, are we ready or mature enough to deal with them or will we do another bit of tragic reliving of history?

A Little Pony

marienbad wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Have you seen Southern Europe? Nationalism is rising all over Europe, Le Penn could be President of France. If she wins, the EU is in huge trouble.

Yeah I have seen Southern Europe , have you seen the polls in those countries ? All of them are overwhelmingly in favour of EU membership .

As for Le Pen could be President , could be would be smud be , the fact is she won't - so what will you move on to then ?  Last month it was Austria and Italy , now it is France and Holland  , so what next ?  Back to Greece and the Euro I suppose .

The fact is Europe faces huge problems , but they would only be magnified outside the union .

In a world of increasingly belligerent power blocs better to be in one than outside .

She won't be? Don't be so sure, they said  that about Brexit, they said it had no chance of happening. Said that about Trump, pundits literally laughed at the idea of him being President and look what happened. I predict she will win.

A Little Pony

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The UK leaving....

You should be more concerned with Scotland breaking up the UK because if it does unionists will soon learn that the English don't give a damn about your 'unionism'.

Whether Scotland leaves the UK, or not, you better hope-and-pray Westminster/London continues to underwrite the basket-case statelet in the northeast of Ireland. Non-unionists can vote themselves straight back into the EU via the no-reverse UI roadmap known as the GFA.

When is the next referendum for that then? Westminster have basically told princess Scotland to take a hike regarding another referendum. The Scottish nationalists had the chance and blew it and lost convincingly. Maybe this will be revisited in 30-40 years time.