Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

First Up

Mal-Adjusted wrote:

Did I miss something? Where did "Red, white & blue brexit" come from"?

Theresa May.

Enzokk

A Little Pony wrote: »

You obviously don't have the intellect to debate the issue, instead of posting rubbish. The fact you think 17 million people including  the Pakistani community and other ethnic minorities who voted Brexit in big numbers are racist tells us everything we need to know about you.

The North of England has huge ethnic minority communities from Bolton to Birmingham and they voted to leave. Race was not the driving factor for Brexit, it is important for the enemies of Britain to claim it was because they have to justify why they support the EU and against the majority of British people.

Xenophobia is just another word for racism. You don't like people because they are different from you, whether they are browner skinned than you, come from a different country or even just a different religion.

Professor Moriarty

Enzokk wrote: »

Xenophobia is just another word for racism. You don't like people because they are different from you, whether they are browner skinned than you, come from a different country or even just a different religion.

Actually, xenophobia is a dislike of people from other countries or cultures regardless of their 'race'. But your point remains.

First Up

Professor Moriarty wrote:

Actually, xenophobia is a dislike of people from other countries regardless of their 'race', skin colour or religion.

Its a fear of foreigners.

Professor Moriarty

First Up wrote: »

Its a fear of foreigners.

Yeah. That's why I took colour and religion out of it. Technically, they could be considered 'foreign' traits. It's a hard word to define as you'll get different meanings when you look it up.

First Up

Professor Moriarty wrote:

Yeah. That's why I took colour and religion out of it. Technically, they could be considered 'foreign' traits. It's a hard word to define as you'll get different meanings when you look it up.

Not really. Its from the Greek - Xeno for foreigner and Phobia - irrational fear.

A Little Pony

Enzokk wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

You obviously don't have the intellect to debate the issue, instead of posting rubbish. The fact you think 17 million people including  the Pakistani community and other ethnic minorities who voted Brexit in big numbers are racist tells us everything we need to know about you.

The North of England has huge ethnic minority communities from Bolton to Birmingham and they voted to leave. Race was not the driving factor for Brexit, it is important for the enemies of Britain to claim it was because they have to justify why they support the EU and against the majority of British people.

Xenophobia is just another word for racism. You don't like people because they are different from you, whether they are browner skinned than you, come from a different country or even just a different religion.

We are all xenophobic to certain degrees, I think anyone denying that is lying. But the point was on ethnic minorities who voted Brexit. Are they racist too? It is ridiculous.

marienbad

A Little Pony wrote: »

We are all xenophobic to certain degrees, I think anyone denying that is lying. But the point was on ethnic minorities who voted Brexit. Are they racist too? It is ridiculous.

If as you say we are all xenophobic to a degree are we also not racist to a degree ?

So by your own logic those ethic minorities must xenophobic and racist ?

First Up

A Little Pony wrote:

We are all xenophobic to certain degrees, I think anyone denying that is lying. But the point was on ethnic minorities who voted Brexit. Are they racist too? It is ridiculous.

It would be, if anyone said it - but they didn't. So maybe go back and read the posts more carefully and if you are still struggling, we might explain it to you if you ask nicely.

Charles Babbage

A Little Pony wrote: »

You obviously don't have the intellect to debate the issue, instead of posting rubbish. The fact you think 17 million people including the Pakistani community and other ethnic minorities who voted Brexit in big numbers are racist tells us everything we need to know about you.

The North of England has huge ethnic minority communities from Bolton to Birmingham and they voted to leave. Race was not the driving factor for Brexit, it is important for the enemies of Britain to claim it was because they have to justify why they support the EU and against the majority of British people.

Many of these voted to leave in the hope that more Asian immigration would replace E. European immigration.

greendom

A Little Pony wrote: »

Enzokk wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

You obviously don't have the intellect to debate the issue, instead of posting rubbish. The fact you think 17 million people including  the Pakistani community and other ethnic minorities who voted Brexit in big numbers are racist tells us everything we need to know about you.

The North of England has huge ethnic minority communities from Bolton to Birmingham and they voted to leave. Race was not the driving factor for Brexit, it is important for the enemies of Britain to claim it was because they have to justify why they support the EU and against the majority of British people.

Xenophobia is just another word for racism. You don't like people because they are different from you, whether they are browner skinned than you, come from a different country or even just a different religion.

We are all xenophobic to certain degrees, I think anyone denying that is lying. But the point was on ethnic minorities who voted Brexit. Are they racist too? It is ridiculous.

Not at all ridiculous. A Pakistani, Chinaman etc etc is as capable of being racist as anyone else

Fratton Fred

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Many of these voted to leave in the hope that more Asian immigration would replace E. European immigration.

To a degree, yes.

I know that a few years back, several young locals of Pakistani heritage, had a run in with a group of Polish immigrants.

If you look at the jobs the Poles were taking, convenience stores, private taxi hire, petrol stations etc. These jobs were almost exclusively filled by the decendants of Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrants, so there seems to have been a degree of "they took our jobs".

FrancieBrady

The reason most of us are not xenophobes and racists is because we use our 'reason'. What is notable in the Leave campaign and the UK's delivery of Brexit is the absence of reason.

Professor Moriarty

First Up wrote: »

Not really. Its from the Greek - Xeno for foreigner and Phobia - irrational fear.

So I thought but doctors differ.

Capt'n Midnight

Red,white and blue Brexit might mean more of this and it's even possible that it could lead to EU sanctions against the UK.

Any economic downturn would lead to more pressure to export arms to unsavoury characters to improve the trade balance.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-is-now-the-second-biggest-arms-dealer-in-the-world-a7225351.html

Britain is now the second biggest arms dealer in the world, official government figures show – with most of the weapons fuelling deadly conflicts in the Middle East.

Since 2010 Britain has also sold arms to 39 of the 51 countries ranked “not free” on the Freedom House "Freedom in the world" report, and 22 of the 30 countries on the UK Government’s own human rights watch list.

A full two-thirds of UK weapons over this period were sold to Middle Eastern countries, where instability has fed into increased risk of terror threats to Britain and across the West.

Iwasfrozen

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Red,white and blue Brexit might mean more of this and it's even possible that it could lead to EU sanctions against the UK.

Any economic downturn would lead to more pressure to export arms to unsavoury characters to improve the trade balance.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-is-now-the-second-biggest-arms-dealer-in-the-world-a7225351.html

As Boris said if Britain doesn't sell to them someone else will. Unless every arms exporting country can agree to embargo unsavory countries then why should the UK.

Peregrinus

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

As Boris said if Britain doesn't sell to them someone else will. Unless every arms exporting country can agree to embargo unsavory countries then why should the UK.

Ah, the heroin pusher's defence. "If I don't sell this stuff to people, somebody else will".

First Up

Fratton Fred wrote:

If you look at the jobs the Poles were taking, convenience stores, private taxi hire, petrol stations etc. These jobs were almost exclusively filled by the decendants of Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrants, so there seems to have been a degree of "they took our jobs".

Correct. Dog eat dog stuff near the bottom of the food chain. The less educated among the native population feel similarly threatened.

Its economics. Nothing to do with racism per se.

MrPudding

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

As Boris said if Britain doesn't sell to them someone else will. Unless every arms exporting country can agree to embargo unsavory countries then why should the UK.

Um... because it would be the right thing to do...?

MrP

Iwasfrozen

Peregrinus wrote: »

Ah, the heroin pusher's defence. "If I don't sell this stuff to people, somebody else will".

Except it isn't illegal and the UK needs is not in a position to turn down customers.

Iwasfrozen

MrPudding wrote: »

Um... because it would be the right thing to do...?

MrP

If I sell you a set of kitchen knives for carving up your turkey and you decide to murder your family the blame rests with you, not me.

Similarly if country A sells military equipment intended for defence to country B, then country A cannot be morally held accountable for country B's actions when they use the equipment outside its intended purposes.

steddyeddy

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

If I sell you a set of kitchen knives for carving up your turkey and you decide to murder your family the blame rests with you, not me.

Are you drinking?

Professor Moriarty

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Except it isn't illegal and the UK needs is not in a position to turn down customers.

Because something might be legal doesn't make it right.

Iwasfrozen

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Because something might be legal doesn't make it right.

So you believe as a general rule the manufacturer / seller of a product should be held accountable for the buyers use of the product?

steddyeddy

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So you believe as a general rule the manufacturer / seller of a product should be held accountable for the buyers use of the product?

Yes I think weapons manufacturers should be conscious of who they sell their weapons too. Do you not agree?

laugh

Fratton Fred wrote: »

To a degree, yes.

I know that a few years back, several young locals of Pakistani heritage, had a run in with a group of Polish immigrants.

If you look at the jobs the Poles were taking, convenience stores, private taxi hire, petrol stations etc. These jobs were almost exclusively filled by the decendants of Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrants, so there seems to have been a degree of "they took our jobs".

Who gave them the jobs and why?

Professor Moriarty

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

If I sell you a set of kitchen knives for carving up your turkey and you decide to murder your family the blame rests with you, not me.

Similarly if country A sells military equipment intended for defence to country B, then country A cannot be morally held accountable for country B's actions when they use the equipment outside its intended purposes.

So no moral problem with my selling weaponry to North Korea if they tell me it will only be used as a deterrent?

steddyeddy

No moral problem with the British selling arms to Gadaffi (they did) who sold it to the IRA. Then complaining about the IRA. Logic fails you my recently thawed friend.

greendom

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

If I sell you a set of kitchen knives for carving up your turkey and you decide to murder your family the blame rests with you, not me.

Similarly if country A sells military equipment intended for defence to country B, then country A cannot be morally held accountable for country B's actions when they use the equipment outside its intended purposes.

Even if it's proven that military equipment previously sold to them has been used for that purpose?

Iwasfrozen

greendom wrote: »

Even if it's proven that military equipment previously sold to them has been used for that purpose?

The the next thing is to work through UN sanctions. Not unilateral sanctions which only hurt the economy of the seller nation.