So VR is here

EoinHef

I havent tried a headset,dont plan on buying one till the tech matures a bit and the cost comes down. So maybe a year or so from now.

Why are people writing off the PSVR though? Any reviews ive seen have been positive,and thats usually running on the PS4 vanilla so should be better on the Pro when it comes out.

Also it seems to be the people who are saying the PSVR is a write off are the same people who say you cant write something off till you try it,have they all tried it?

Dyr

“The problem of TV was that people had to glue their eyes to a screen, and that the average American wouldn’t have time for it"

AtomicHorror

sup_dude wrote: »

Well, no. Whatever about the rest of your post, the 5 minutes is wrong. I'm unfortunately speaking from a chronic motion sickness sufferer. Games in first person are a no-no for me, regardless of the game. I don't even have to play it myself, just watching it does the trick. The time it takes to start feeling it varies though. It can take 5 mins, it can take an hour.
Although VR looks great, I know without a shadow of a doubt that it will cause me to throw my guts up because something like Minecraft has me lying in bed feeling like crap for the rest of the day.

Motion sickness in VR is a pretty hot topic. It seems like it may be possible to reduce it a lot as the technology develops. Weird example: adding a virtual nose into VR games seems to help- it adds a fixed reference point that players don't notice consciously. That's one of the cues your brain uses to know that your head movements are properly in sync with what you're seeing around you. Another possible piece of the puzzle might be galvanic vestibular stimulation or similar technique- something that mimics the sensations of head orientation and acceleration.

It might be the case that motion sickness can be more easily addressed in VR than in traditional 2D screen based media.

For now though, your assumption is right on the money. If you're susceptible at all, it'll make you really ill.

Temptamperu wrote: »

Not everyone has a spare room to hold all the equipment. its easier to just have a tv and a control pad. I have no trouble getting immersed in games at the minute.

Neither do I, but I have to say that even though some games have had me entirely engrossed, my brief experience in VR left me convinced that it is the way forward.

That was with a Rift, seated the entire time, so no spare room needed for that.

ERG89

Bambi wrote: »

I think anyone without a VR set up are just writing it off to justify their refusal to make a financial investment.

Statements like that are easy and fun to make

Same with the guff about nausea and motion sickness, they have nothing to do with time spent playing.

Guff??? It's basically the complaint most people have about it more than performance.
I'd consider buying one far in the future if there was good games. I wouldn't buy a console which has nothing I want to play on it. I ain't trying to justify my refusal on something that I feel I don't need. :rolleyes:
I ain't going to need one to play Dishonored 2, Persona 5 or Horizon Zero Dawn.
I think I'd be right thinking some people who own one don't want to question the value or necessity of them now.

Grayditch

Some amount of testy responses in this thread the last few pages.

I'd probably have my arm twisted if it came with a couple of full length games that were well reviewed.

Dyr

ERG89 wrote: »

Guff??? It's basically the complaint most people have about it more than performance.
I'd consider buying one far in the future if there was good games. I wouldn't buy a console which has nothing I want to play on it. I ain't trying to justify my refusal on something that I feel I don't need. :rolleyes:
I ain't going to need one to play Dishonored 2, Persona 5 or Horizon Zero Dawn.
I think I'd be right thinking some people who own one don't want to question the value or necessity of them now.

Your statement that extended playtime= nausea and tiredness is guff.

Unless you have a predisposition to motion sickness, nausea caused by poor motion control or synch issues, not by how long you wear a headset.

It's also caused by pulling low level stunts in DCS world, which is a testament to its fidelity.

Its funny you mention dishonoured, as much as I enjoyed that game (on PC of course, presume the console ports were competent also) Budgets cuts (which is still just a demo for christs sake) makes the whole idea that of a stealth game on a screen sorta silly.

DeadlyByDesign

Literally have just come back from one of the demos. It was amazing, I played Batman and London heist. I'll say this again...I GOT TO BE THE BATMAN...."

London heist was better than I thought it would be. You can interact with everything. When the gunfight broke out I wondered "can I open the glove box and put the ammo mags on the the opened glove door for ease of reach?", I could. I could manipulate the radio dial, throw cans about the driving cabin and everything. When the action started I was actually ducking as my brain was tricked into the overall sense of presence.

Now I loved it and do think it is the future. I am going to let the tech mature for the next 6 months and see how it all pans out, To the people who say "it's a fad", or "it adds nothing new",

I GOT TO BE BATMAN.

Falthyron

Niche product for a niche market.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_h6GYI8ddA

Dyr

Falthyron wrote: »

Niche product for a niche market.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_h6GYI8ddA

why do people think that these youtube gimps clickbait videos carry any weight with grown ups?

Although speaking of weight I can understand why a salad dodger like yer man might not be crazy about having to get out of his chair

Falthyron

Bambi wrote: »

why do people think that these youtube gimps clickbait videos carry any weight with grown ups?

Although speaking of weight I can understand why a salad dodger like yer man might not be crazy about having to get out of his chair

So everything he lays out in his arguments is completely wrong, misguided, prejudiced and produced purely to attract attention for easy hits? All of it? Completely and utterly incorrect?

Zillah

sup_dude wrote: »

Well, no. Whatever about the rest of your post, the 5 minutes is wrong. I'm unfortunately speaking from a chronic motion sickness sufferer. Games in first person are a no-no for me, regardless of the game. I don't even have to play it myself, just watching it does the trick. The time it takes to start feeling it varies though. It can take 5 mins, it can take an hour.
Although VR looks great, I know without a shadow of a doubt that it will cause me to throw my guts up because something like Minecraft has me lying in bed feeling like crap for the rest of the day.

Ok but this is about you having serious nausea problems in your general life, it's not any sort of useful comment on VR. The issue with VR nausea is that some types of experience can induce nausea in people who would not otherwise be susceptible (though still not everyone). But there are ways around that, like alternative locomotion (teleportation), vision-blur during motion, effects in peripheral vision, and animations disgusing the potentially troublesome element.

ERG89 wrote: »

I don't see any evidence of the headsets being able to handle extended periods without causing nausea or tiredness.

The evidence is that they don't? Like, I don't know what else to say. People frequently play their Vive for hours at a time and have no issues. I've played Forgotten Realms for three hours without a break before.

If you're going to get nausea from a VR game it will induce it pretty quickly; if you're not getting nausea from it quickly then you never will. You'll get tired, sure...three hours of swinging swords at skeletons will do that. My only major obstacle to extended play is the weight of the device on my brow; it's different for everyone.

I'm struggling to understand what it is about VR that's leading to the perpetuation of so many myths about it.

RasTa

Falthyron wrote: »

So everything he lays out in his arguments is completely wrong, misguided, prejudiced and produced purely to attract attention for easy hits? All of it? Completely and utterly incorrect?

What's your opinion on it?

Falthyron

RasTa wrote: »

What's your opinion on it?

I gave my opinion on VR earlier in the year in the thread about Oculus VR. I believe it is a gimmick that won't last beyond those wealthy enough to afford it and that VR won't become mainstream.

I focused on the inevitable bidding wars that will break out between various developers and publishers for exclusivity rights (exclusive on VIVE, etc), for example. Oculus tried this earlier in the year, as was reported.

I also commented on the lack of social interaction. If it was to succeed (which I don't believe it will), how odd would it be to play a VR game on a couch with friends in the room who won't have a clue what you are doing. If gaming is on the trend towards multiplayer and social interactivity, then how can a device intended to create personal experiences fit into that trend?

I did say it would be an interesting concept for some genres, but the majority don't suit VR, with reference to the fact that not a single AAA developer has announced a native VR title yet, despite there now being three different products on the market.

VR is an interesting concept and fun in small doses, but it won't be our main platform for gaming in the years to come. That's my take and I am glad to see others like Jim Sterling sharing their experiences in the face of blind mass hysteria over a medium heralded as the second coming.

CS Hasuki

Would I be right in guessing sold out everywhere?

Zillah

Falthyron wrote: »

I also commented on the lack of social interaction. If it was to succeed (which I don't believe it will), how odd would it be to play a VR game on a couch with friends in the room who won't have a clue what you are doing. If gaming is on the trend towards multiplayer and social interactivity, then how can a device intended to create personal experiences fit into that trend?

I have had a dozen VR parties where what the gamer is seeing is put up on the big TV while people take turns having a go. The girls frequently scream at the sudden appearance of zombies in The Brookhaven Experiment even when they're not playing.

Falthyron

I have said it before, and I will say it again: this video could not be any more on point about human behaviour, marketing, and brand loyalty. It starts at 1:33

Retr0gamer

Bambi wrote: »

why do people think that these youtube gimps clickbait videos carry any weight with grown ups?

Although speaking of weight I can understand why a salad dodger like yer man might not be crazy about having to get out of his chair

The persona Jim Sterling puts on in those videos can annoy some people but the man is one of the few that actually does some gods honest games journalism, his recent expose on management interference with Deus Ex is far more journalistic than the majority of videogame sites that regurgitate press releases and only do developer interviews when said developer is trying to peddle something. He's very different from your ten a penny Angry Joe's or the likes of Easy Allies with their unchallenging journalism and excitable child like writing. He's never afraid to give his opinion even if he knows it might be unpopular.

Thank god for him.

Falthyron

Bambi wrote: »

why do people think that these youtube gimps clickbait videos carry any weight with grown ups?

Although speaking of weight I can understand why a salad dodger like yer man might not be crazy about having to get out of his chair

Perhaps if you listened to what he has to say instead of judging him by his appearance it might change your perspective, assuming you are open to contrary points of view.

You argue that people who bemoan VR have yet to really try it themselves and shouldn't be making arguments against it without experiencing it. Take your own advice, watch the Jim Sterling video and then tell us if he is just a 'youtube gimp'.

RasTa

Falthyron wrote: »

I have said it before, and I will say it again: this video could not be any more on point about human behaviour, marketing, and brand loyalty. It starts at 1:33

I can't watch those type of videos. Everything doesn't have to be dumbed down. Some confirmation bias going on in your posts re VR however the only thing I'm not doing is completely writing it off

Falthyron

RasTa wrote: »

I can't watch those type of videos. Everything doesn't have to be dumbed down. Some confirmation bias going on in your posts re VR however the only thing I'm not doing is completely writing it off

I'm not saying its the absolute truth, but with the way some people vehemently defend products/brands that they have no ties to, except as the role of consumer, it is a very strong theory that can help to explain such bizarre behaviour.

Don't get me wrong, I am not writing off VR. I just can't see it becoming a replacement for a decent 24 inch 144hz monitor, or (as others would want) a replacement for a cinema screen.

RasTa

Falthyron wrote: »

I'm not saying its the absolute truth, but with the way some people vehemently defend products/brands that they have no ties to, except as the role of consumer, it is a very strong theory that can help to explain such bizarre behaviour.

Don't get me wrong, I am not writing off VR. I just can't see it becoming a replacement for a decent 24 inch 144hz monitor, or (as others would want) a replacement for a cinema screen.

It's not even being launched as a replacement

Ave Sodalis

Zillah wrote:

Ok but this is about you having serious nausea problems in your general life, it's not any sort of useful comment on VR. The issue with VR nausea is that some types of experience can induce nausea in people who would not otherwise be susceptible (though still not everyone). But there are ways around that, like alternative locomotion (teleportation), vision-blur during motion, effects in peripheral vision, and animations disgusing the potentially troublesome element.

Well to be fair, it's not really general life, just games. I don't think it'll effect everyone but I would imagine it would worsen anyone who would be even slightly affected by nausea when playing first person. So it may not be a huge problem, but I wouldn't dismiss it so thoroughly as nonsense either.

Retr0gamer

RasTa wrote: »

I can't watch those type of videos. Everything doesn't have to be dumbed down. Some confirmation bias going on in your posts re VR however the only thing I'm not doing is completely writing it off

Again Jim is different from the likes of Angry joe in that he actually does some journalism and gives informed opinions and research topics. He only really begins and ends his videos with his arrogant persona. He's had years in the business so is much better equipped to analyse it.

lawlolawl

The problem with VR at the moment is that it doesn't have an essential game for it on any platform.

I was going to head out this morning and get a PSVR on a whim but I changed my mind once I looked at the launch lineup and realized nearly all the games are just tech demos that you'd knock a couple of hours fun out of and never touch again.

For €400+ before you even buy a game I'd want to get something that I won't be done with after one decent day of gaming

The tech is there but the games simply aren't yet.

Saw a guy on another site saying he was going to pick up a second hand one in a month or two when Ebay ends up flooded with all the units that people aren't using any more so they will be selling them for Christmas money. I reckon his is not too wrong with his thinking that this is a good plan.

SeantheMan

Retr0gamer wrote: »

He's very different from your ten a penny Angry Joe's or the likes of Easy Allies with their unchallenging journalism and excitable child like writing. He's never afraid to give his opinion even if he knows it might be unpopular.

Thank god for him.

The easy Allies don't/barely do reviews anymore. But they do discuss games in-depth, bit of an insult to consider it excitable child like writing.
I'm not sure they even write or prepare for most of the topics discussed, yet still deliver concise, informative and funny insights into the current goings on of the gaming industry. Only 1 member really gets over-excited at everything, and he's hilarious in my opinion. They're by far my favorite gaming site/group/online person out there.

Jim Sterling isn't my cup of tea, but I can see why many people like him. But just because you don't like or agree with something doesn't make your opinion the be all/end all. You do have a lot of insight and knowledge into games Retro, and I wouldn't question your knowledge in any respect, but you do tend to get on a bit of a high horse sometimes with regards to certain things in the gaming industry.

Skatedude

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

If we're going to do analogies, a much more apt one would be:

It's like drinking a few cocktails and saying "I don't really see what the big deal is. I'll probably stick to the whiskey."

And then having all the people who like cocktails tell you that you're ignorant and that they completely redefine drinking.

Nope, as drunk is drunk regardless of the means.
VR is one of those things that you can't understand until you have tried it, Ask anyone who has actually used vr and you will get the same answer.

Dyr

Falthyron wrote: »

So everything he lays out in his arguments is completely wrong, misguided, prejudiced and produced purely to attract attention for easy hits? All of it? Completely and utterly incorrect?

I couldn't tell you, I didn't watch it. I don't waste time on the nonsense that gob****es like him pump out. Lifes too short

If you feel like transcribing his main points and presenting them as your own or something I might respond.

But then you think the Vive has exclusives and lacks multiplayer for some reason so I'm not sure if I should lend you opinions much more creedance than that space hoppers

Although fair enough no ones going to sit on a couch with their little chummy wums playing VR games together but PC gamers don't generally do that anyway


I'm not fat shaming the big chap, I'm just trying to assign a spurious motive to his viewpoint so I can dismiss it...Y'know...just like you did when you were claiming that people are giving VR a pass because they're financially invested in it. Sauce for the goose mi compadre

Dyr

lawlolawl wrote: »

The problem with VR at the moment is that it doesn't have an essential game for it on any platform.

That's a fair point, but the hardware has only been publicly available for around 6 months. Given the time it takes to develop a major title plus the extra factor of this being virgin territory, it's inevitable that there's a lag. Even Valve are talking about 2017 for their releases.

Most of the long playing games are VR adoptions of games that lend themselves to the concept..simulators like Project Cars, ET2 and DCS World.

That said the best experiences in VR gaming are developed by small or one man outfits, i.e. Onward and H3VR

Retr0gamer

SeantheMan wrote: »

The easy Allies don't/barely do reviews anymore. But they do discuss games in-depth, bit of an insult to consider it excitable child like writing.
I'm not sure they even write or prepare for most of the topics discussed, yet still deliver concise, informative and funny insights into the current goings on of the gaming industry. Only 1 member really gets over-excited at everything, and he's hilarious in my opinion. They're by far my favorite gaming site/group/online person out there.

Jim Sterling isn't my cup of tea, but I can see why many people like him. But just because you don't like or agree with something doesn't make your opinion the be all/end all. You do have a lot of insight and knowledge into games Retro, and I wouldn't question your knowledge in any respect, but you do tend to get on a bit of a high horse sometimes with regards to certain things in the gaming industry.

They're just not for me. Never liked Gametrailers either. It's a bunch of people chosen for personality rather than actual opinions and knowledge and while it makes them fun in front of a camera or on a podcast whatever they say is just vapid and what you wouldn't learn from hundreds of other sources. Only reporting on the big games and the big indies the majority of time and any research is a cursory glance at reddit or neogaf.

I've a friend that is even more deep into games than me (contributor to some very obscure game articles on hardcore gaming 101) that loves easy allies and the likes of giantbomb. Says they are great entertainment and that's why he listens to them but says you'll learn nothing from them. They're not going to rock the boat of challenge anything in the press or gaming news.

I kind of like to learn something from my entertainment when it comes to games. I kind of fell the likes of easy allies and ginatbomb can do more harm than good to me. I've almost ignored some amazing games because of the opinions of these shows or some like them.

Falthyron

Bambi wrote: »

I couldn't tell you, I didn't watch it. I don't waste time on the nonsense that gob****es like him pump out. Lifes too short

You have no problem dismissing a possible challenge to your mode of thinking without actually knowing what he is saying? Are you afraid he might say something that will stir insecurity? Doubt over the product you have chosen and idea you have spent so much energy defending?

I'm not fat shaming the big chap, I'm just trying to assign a spurious motive to his viewpoint so I can dismiss it...Y'know...just like you did when you were claiming that people are giving VR a pass because they're financially invested in it. Sauce for the goose mi compadre

No. You seem quite confused. I am not challenging VR as a concept, I am just saying it won't be the second coming as many on here seem to think. I did not dismiss VR, I said it will probably work as a niche product. However, it is difficult to find people who are willing to remain objective on a product when they have forked out €400+ on it. You think its healthy to cast aside objective criticism just because you bought into it? Blind devotion to a product/idea makes you the perfect consumer. You don't find it odd that you need to defend a product so vehemently on a public forum? Unless of course you work for the company who makes the product.

Do you feel you will be betrayed/robbed of something if VR happens to go the way of 3D TVs, the PS Move, Kinect, HD-DVDs, Mini-discs, Betamax, etc., etc.?